Quadub's LED Stealth Grow - Soil - Blue Dream

[QuaDub]

Welcome everyone,

I am currently running a stealth grow op in my closet. I originally started with a 250w halide but the exhaust fan was too loud so i resorted to expirimmenting with LED's. I am in a 2x2x5'3".

FIRST!! I am aware that everyone hates/discourages LED growing so if you are here to talk shit about me using LED's, you can just turn around and leave

SECOND!! I am a first time grower with a little experience helping friends, I am trying to learn as much as possible, so constructive criticism is welcomed

Here is a parts list just to give you guys an idea of what im working with.
- 2x2x5'3" growlab tent
- 2 Kessil 34w LED's(purple spectrum) for general purpose
- honeywell air purifier
- 2 Blue dream clones
- fox farm ocean blend soil

Pics of the setup:

At night time when its pitch black there is a little purple glow in my closet but thats from the top exhaust hole being open.

So far i have had the LED's running for 19 hours and my max temp in the room is only 79F with no exhaust fan!!

and finally the ladies...

I am currently on day 2 with the clones and it seems that the smaller one's top leaves have started to shrivel a little, i think this may be to overwatering?

QUESTION: should i water my plants at the same time every day?

 

[jeff1bar]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Hey Q-Dub,

Just lurking around and came by your grow. Caught my eye because you are using Kessil LED's. Haven't seen very many constructive grows with these lights yet. You won't get any bashing for me, as a fellow LED grower! I have thought these lights may be useful for side supplemental lighting for a scrog, as they can be mounted in any position, and are fairly cheap!

I will be watching your grow, to see how the lights perform!

They should work well for you, as you are only doing a plant per light. I wouldn't recommend doing any more plants per light, than 1, in the future though, IMO.

I feel honoured to be the first to reply to your journal, so I will try to give you some helpful pointers. Your audience will probably need some more info though, to give you the most accurate advice. (you will get lots of opinions here, and I would say most are right to a degree. They will work in some cases, and won't in others. Take it all in, research the differences, and tinker for yourself)

1 - Are you using, or going to be using any ferts? **(recommended)
2 - What is the ph of your water?

Generally, watering should be every 3 days with LED's, IMO. You will find as they grow, and enter the flower buildup, they start to consume more. You will have to increase your volume. It is okay to go a little over water (4 days), or under (2 days), until you dial it in. A good rule is "better a little dry, than a little wet".

Your soil has some nutrients, so you can go a little bit, but eventually, you will need nutrients. It should be ph balanced to stay close to 7.0, so you should be okay there. Your buckets look to be good enough to ensure adequate root space. What size are they? (3 or 5 gallon?) Will you be replanting, or are they there you for the full cycle?

You need to find out your water source ph. Don't take it for granted. I have fallen to it, as many have. I changed water sources a while back, from a 7.0 to what I thought would be the same. I eventually got lockout, and tested my water. It was 5.0, and I was using organics, which gave me a nutrient solution of 4.5 ph. The soil countered it for a little bit (added dolomite), but lockout was inevitable! Your ph should be 6.3 - 6.5 for the final nutrient solution, IMO.

Your temps look good! With LED's, I have found that the plants can handle more heat, to their benefit. Don't be worried if it gets to 85', if there is decent ventilaion or air movement, they are good. Just make sure the temp doesn't drop more than 10' with the lights off, IMO. They like to be a little warmer at night in my experince. I might suggest a little more RH though. They like more of the 40%-50% range, IMO. 60% can be handled, but can create other unwanted conditions. 40-50 keeps you pretty safe. A cheap alternative to buying a humidifier in small spaces, is to place a larger surface area deep pan, in front of the oscillating/purifier fan, to add moisture. Can up the RH 5% easily in some cases, IMO.

It could help to get a couple pics up with the lights off. Flash on, or just a regular light. I love the look of pics with the LED's, but can be deceptive when looking for issues or deficiencies. A couple of side shots too, could help. I had done a deficiency test a while back just for myself, and forced different lockouts, to see how they came about, and how to best fix them. I see some similarities, but it may be just the pics posted.

This is strictly my opinion, without conclusive photos, but you could be just starting to get lockout (might also just be stress if they were just translplanted 2 days ago as well). If your water, and soil are 6.0 or under, you will be getting P/K, ca, mg lockout, and soon others will be added to the list. From the pics, the tops could be a little stunted, and the last pic, the new growth looks to be light in color, and a little stunted, IMO. The leaves appear to be quite dark, so N is plentiful. The new growth tips look to be twisting a little, which can also signal lockout beginning.

Q-Dub, throw some more pics up, and I will look again, and I'm sure some others will post up their opinions as well.

Good luck, and I hope this helped a little!



PS - forgot the original question, about the watering time. I think that is up to debate. I would think most advanced growers would say that at least 1 hour should be waited after lights go on, and several hours before they go out. The latter is very subjective, but too much moisture in the area before lights out can create mold/moisture, RH problems. My rule is anywhere from the 2nd hour, until the halfway point of the day (light cycle). The exact time every 3rd day, I don't think is as important, IMO.

 

[HempRocket]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Always interested in LED grows. I'll be watching.

 

[Jozo-sha]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Always interested in LED grows. I'll be watching.

Ditto - Im intrigued by these Kessils too. Subbed/+rep

 

[QuaDub]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

On day 3 i have added a single sun blaze T5 light just to add a little more of a full light spectrum. I dont think the ladies will be complaining either.

Thanks jeff1bar there was a lot of useful information, i do not think the problem is lockout however because it is only there second day and the ph in the soil is 6. I think it was cause i overwatered and released too many nutrients from the soil into the plant. They seem to be looking a bit better today.

I have purchased fox farms big bloom, grow big, and tiger bloom, but haven't started adding any yet. I was told my soil should have enough nutes for the first 2 weeks after planting.

Currently the LED's are about 7 inches from the plant and the T5 is 6 inches. Does anyone know if i can go closer with these? and if so how close?

Tonight I will also be switching their light cycle from 24 hours, to 20 hours on 4 hours off. If anyone has a problem wit this please tell me why and i might be willing to listen.

Here are some pics of the ladies without the LED's on them.(i just pointed the LED away so there might be some reflection.

 

[jeff1bar]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Hey Q-Dub,

Thanks for putting up some more pics. If I understand correctly, the clones were transplanted several days ago to the current pots? If so, I would give it a week for it to acclimate. Keep a close eye on the new growth (color, twisting, stunted), and any color change on older growth.

** Jumping to conclusions, or trying to fix the wrong problem can easily consume the mj grower, and sometimes bring more problems. Looking at your new pics, mostly #3 and #5, they could be saying that your clone is just getting used to the soil, conditions, lighting, etc. It could be also the beginning of micro nute lockout. They do start out slow sometimes, so it is something to watch. If your soil is 6.0 ph, and your water/nutrient solution is also 6.0 ph, your will get lockout. It will start with mg, and ca can be added. If it goes longer, it can bring in K, and then P.

You don't need a PH pen, if costs are an issue. The ph papers work, they are just not as accurate, but close enough to be useful. They cost $8 for a roll.

I give you a thumbs up for going to 20 hours. I use a 20 hour cycle for veg as well. You can go 24/7, but I believe that the plants do need a small rest period. I feel that you get a healthier plant, letting it sleep a little bit, and repair from the days growth. A night cycle is natural for most of what grows and lives on this planet (unless you live at the bottom of the ocean). I have found that my best plants, come from a 20 hour cycle. I have used 18/20 and 24 hour veg cycles. This is very much my opinion!

As for height, your T5 is good. With the LED's, you might want to leave them a bit higher, to force the plant to stretch a little, once it resumes regular growth. Then you can lower it, to ensure a more intense, uniform growth, and stop any stretching. You will probably have to play with them a little bit. The Kessil's are not super strong in the LED world, so you can probably have only 6" clearance to the tops. I would say for strong growing, any more than 12" will lower the intensity too much, IMO!

I think FF should be a good choice to begin with. It is a fairly easy recipe. Are you using the FF schedule? They have the PH availability chart attached to the schedule for your reference. Search for other charts though, as their chart seems to be a little different with the ph points for lockout.

Your soil should be good for the first 2 weeks, in terms of nutes. I stress that you should not start nuting your plants until you confirm your ph. If you don't, added nutes will only compound your problem, if ph lockout is occuring.

Watch the new growth on you clones. The side pic seems to show a slow down/stunting of the new growth. New leaves and shoots in a small area, with slowed vertical growth. The new growth is light colored, twisted, with thin leaves. If this continues, you have some lockout. If this fixes itself, and begins new growth properly, you just had initial transplant stress.

You didn't say if you were going to be transplanting in the future, or if they are in their flower cycle home, for the long run. There is something to consider. If your ph is low to begin with in your soil 6.0, you will need to add some dolomite lime later on, to ensure that you do not get acid ph lockout in your soil (I have had it, and it sucks). That can be discussed later on!

If your interested, check out some on my mj pics in my gallery. I will be posting a journal, starting at the beginning of March.

Hope this helps a bit! If you have any questions, just ask! There are tons of people on 420, that will give you the direction you need. No question is stupid, as we all have had them at one point or another!

Take care!

 

[GreenGrower]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

I am being told by a Hydro Store that LED produces fruit light in weight ie not as dense as HSP.
Any feedback or info on this would be helpful!

Thanks!

 

[HempRocket]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

I am being told by a Hydro Store that LED produces fruit light in weight ie not as dense as HSP.
Any feedback or info on this would be helpful!

Thanks!

Dude, here is an awesome journal that totally covers what you're asking: 300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

Hope this helps.

 

[jeff1bar]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

I am being told by a Hydro Store that LED produces fruit light in weight ie not as dense as HSP.
Any feedback or info on this would be helpful!

Thanks!

Hey GG,

Have a look at some of the current, and completed journals featuring LED growing (like Hemprocket suggested). I think you will see that statement is false, and somewhat accurate.............

**Explanation: there are LED's that will grow great mj, and there are ones that will not grow much. IMO, 2/3 band ufo's won't produce what you want (no offence meant to any ufo users). Most LED's offered on ebay, and through China, are of poor quality. This is not always the case, but most of the time it is.

I think you will see here on 420, that there are 5 top LED company products (quite a few here from HGL & GHL, HSS, etc.), growing some very nice mj. I believe right now in the LED market, you are really getting what you pay for. A $150 light is just that, $150 light. If you think the top companies are gouging for a $1150 light, they are a bit, but the different in the materials, and growing ability between the 2, are night and day. This is strictly my opinion of course! Currently, the high end LED game is not for budget limited, meaning, if you have $1000 for lighting, buying 1-350W light for $1000, would not be prudent in my opinion (2-4 plants total). For the $1000, you might do better with 2-1000W HID setups. More plants for your space, for sure.

You will see that most LED growers, end up with more than 1 light, no matter what their original intention. It is addictive! I started with 1, and wanting 2 in total. I now have 7, 6 months after buying the first.

Be warned** I believe there is a learning curve to LED growing, IMO. It took me 2 grows to adjust, and dial it in. I will be posting a grow later on in March, to document what I have learned, and show what can be done with LED's.

Good luck with your search for the right light!

 

[jeff1bar]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Hey Q-Dub,

Any news on your clones? Any change in your symptoms? Hope things are looking up!

Cheers!

 

[Marley15]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Hey Q I'm subbed, shouldn't find many LED haters on 420 as there are plenty of grows with em here that have produced great results.

@jeff1bar, awesome help man +rep for all the good info your offering up to a new grower/member.

 

[jeff1bar]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

@Jeff1bar, awesome help man +rep for all the good info your offering up to a new grower/member.

Hey Marley15,

Thanks for the reps! I feel for any new grower, and have a soft spot for LED. Being a long time green thumb, and past HID user, I sure felt like a newbie the first LED grow I tried! I'm just glad I had the nute knowledge to get by already, and figured out the differences pretty quick. Still learning, but feel that I have a firm grasp, and now just have to tweek to get to the maximum.

I feel if I can help anyone to avoid some problems that I have already had, maybe someone else can then avoid them!

Cheers!

 

[QuaDub]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Hey guys, sorry for the delay but this is a stealth grow and my father has sundays and mondays off so i couldn't get in the tent long enough to snap some shots.

I am planing on leaving the plants in these pots throughout their lifecycle, but im not possitive if they are big enough.

They seem to be growing like champs!! Even the smaller one has started growing at an acceptable rate.

The bigger of the 2 is not slowing its growth either, looking better than ever.

I had some spare computer fans lying around so i wired them and am now using them to add a little "wind" to my plants to strengthen their stems.

I am about ready to start using the nutrients but i am unaware of what concentration i should use being as the one in their feeding chart seems it may be a little hot for canniabis, anyone have a good recipe with FF nutes?!

 

[Jackel420]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

I'm doing a LED grow in the same tent you have. I will be watching yours. LED grows is the only grows I'm interested in.

 

[jeff1bar]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Hey guys, sorry for the delay but this is a stealth grow and my father has sundays and mondays off so i couldn't get in the tent long enough to snap some shots.

I am planing on leaving the plants in these pots throughout their lifecycle, but im not possitive if they are big enough.

They seem to be growing like champs!! Even the smaller one has started growing at an acceptable rate.

The bigger of the 2 is not slowing its growth either, looking better than ever.

I had some spare computer fans lying around so i wired them and am now using them to add a little "wind" to my plants to strengthen their stems.

I am about ready to start using the nutrients but i am unaware of what concentration i should use being as the one in their feeding chart seems it may be a little hot for canniabis, anyone have a good recipe with FF nutes?!

Hey Q-Dub,

Looks like they are starting to settle in. Curious, with your FF nutes, are you using the full line, including kangoroots, and the microbe additives? It may or may not effect whether your pot size will be good for the whole cycle.

I'm sure there will be someone who has a good handle on the right schedule to use for FF. If not, start with 1/4, and no more than 1/3 strength. You can progress from there, as they get bigger and stronger. I think most growers work up to full nutes by the time they are in mid flower cycle, IMO. Others can comment. With my schedule, it is a self made organic schedule, with multiple nute brands, so there was no schedule, but what I delevoped over time with trial and error. If you are worried or cautious, use them at 1/5 strength for the first week, but I think 1/4 should be fine, IMO.

I think your on your way to a pretty good first grow. Not all of us are always that lucky..............

Cheers!



PS - if the light yellowing on some of the leaves doesn't get better, but stays the same, it is normal. If the new growth is good and strong, then your good. Those current leaves will be suckers in the end, and be coming of eventually.

 

[QuaDub]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

I wasnt planning on it, the only nutes i was going to use are big bloom, grow big, and tiger bloom.

 

[jeff1bar]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Hey Q-Dub,

I might consider adding the flower tri-pack, if it doesn't break the bank (Cha Ching, Beastie Bloomz, and Open Sesame)! Most nutes are made to be used as a line, for specific periods in the cycle. If you leave some out, you may not get the full potential from your plants at harvest.

Don't get me wrong, you still can have a decent grow using only 3 parts, but their products are designed to be used in the 6 part (or 8, if you use the full line) setup.

I bring this up to only to make the point that it is generally 3 months for a complete cycle, and that is a long time to wait to get just a little bit of okay product. Ask yourself this: would you spend $80-$100 on nutes, if you knew that the end product was twice as good, and produced twice as much? If the answer is not easy, then wait! Try what you have this round. Then add some more to the next cycle, and compare your results, IMO!

Let us know what you decide!

Cheers!

PS - if you are not building a micro culture in your soil, then your pot size should be good (not using microbe and kangaroots). If you were building the roots system, you would probably want to be in 5 g pots.

 

[QuaDub]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

Here are a few new photos from day 5, the plants still seem to be growing at a good rate. I recentl purchased a 2ft 4 bulb HO flourescent fixture to which i put in the tent today i got a gooseneck for the kessil but my hydro store only had 1 at the moment

 

[QuaDub]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

So i just got Word that another LED hater, hates LED's so much that he is donating every LED light he ever tried growing with to me I dont think its very many since he hates them but should be a nice lil add.

 

[jeff1bar]

Re: Quadub's LED stealth grow, soil, Blue Dream

So i just got Word that another LED hater, hates LED's so much that he is donating every LED light he ever tried growing with to me I dont think its very many since he hates them but should be a nice lil add.

Hey Q-Dub,

Curious to see what lights he bought and hated! When you get them, let the people know what they are.

IMO, if he hated them, they are probably not very good quality.

Cheers!