Still haven’t figured out how to identify problems

[SmokingWings]

Ok, I found it, "Cultivation Nation" 3 part" soil schedule. WTH is that and how is it different than the plain 'Soil Schd'?
The four bottom products are the same on both...

OK, I found it, Cultivation Nation is powder nutes and Big Bloom, Grow Big and Tiger Bloom are liquids with much, much lower NPK numbers, and organic? Is that the big difference?
Why would you buy both when you are just trying to get the NPK into the soil?

Do not confuse yourself. Fox Farm has a fertilizing schedule for each of their line of nutrient lines and Cultivation Nation is one of their newer systems. It depends on which Cultivation Nation schedule you want to follow and that tells the grower which bottles and canisters to use. The '2 Part' is powder. The '3 Part' uses bottles of liquid. Two different Cultivation Nation schedules.

@AdaminCO provided the one for the traditional Fox Farm line of products that contains the Grow Big product. That set of fertilizers is what made Fox Farm one of the first and largest Cannabis fertilizing companies. That is the schedule that @Emilya is providing the help on. Do whatever you need to do to have just that schedule handy. Print it out or keep a link to it handy, whatever it takes. Trying to figure out how all the other systems work before you have had a chance to figure out the basic system will only cause confusion.

But I have a jar of Cha Ching from years ago, so I'll use it!

Remember that the Cha Ching has two other products that should be used together as shown in the schedule. There is Open Sesame and Beatie Bloomz. All three are in the purple section at the bottom and are intended to be used together as in if you are going to use the Cha Ching then you should also be using the other two mixed with water as shown on the schedule and used at the right time.

Do not substitute the products in the purple section for the ones in the green. In other words, start using the ones in the green and follow through properly until the end for a successful grow and harvest. If you want to add the finishers, the ones in the purple then add those to your fertilizer line-up at that proper time. Do not stop the products in the green.

 

[Nortonnabis]

Who advised you to use another nute system along with your Fox farms? Kick this person in the shins and tell them to go away. They apparently are trying to ruin your grow.

Sorry, I meant FF 'Cultivation Nation' soil schedule has you using liquid and powered nutes in the same schedule.
The 'other' FF soil schedule has you only using the liquid nutes.

Do you know what I mean? There are several FF soil schedules, with no clear distinctions on why.

And that 'Feed to 10-15% runoff' is from FF FAQ section.

I think I went thru most of the FAQ and yet I still have questions.
Like, wth is 'Cultivation Nation' '2 Part' and '3 Part' systems and why/how would you choose which to use?

I understand your method of proper watering of soil. That's one of the first things I checked out in your signature!!
And allowing the cloth pot to dry between water/feed cycles.
But how dry? To feeling the soil at 3" depth or weight or leaf droop?

But most importantly, how do you do the 'Feed' with FF products?
How much of the nute solution would you give to a 5 gal pot?
I'd like to see concise instructions such as '1qt per 5gal soil'. I'm simple like that....
That's where I've always had trouble in the past with indoor grows and outdoor vegis in containers.
Burnt a few... but I wasn't using FF.

As I'm understanding FF, their nutes mixed into a gallon of water are not hot enough to harm the plant and that's why they advise to 'feed to 10-15% runoff', (which is a tiny bit wasteful... ). Is this correct?


EC and PPM is right there at the top of all the FF soil schedules, that's why I asked where those measurements are to be taken. It's not defined in those schedules.

Thanks so much friends for answering all these noob questions!

 

[SmokingWings]

EC and PPM is right there at the top of all the FF soil schedules, that's why I asked where those measurements are to be taken. It's not defined in those schedules.

I no longer use the Fox Farm products for my Cannabis growing but I still respect the company and all the work they have gone through to come up with one of the simplest of nutrient programs available. As such, I do not pay attention to the EC and PPM numbers.

 

[Nortonnabis]

Do not confuse yourself. Fox Farm has a fertilizing schedule for each of their line of nutrient lines and Cultivation Nation is one of their newer systems. It depends on which Cultivation Nation schedule you want to follow and that tells the grower which bottles and canisters to use. The '2 Part' is powder. The '3 Part' uses bottles of liquid. Two different Cultivation Nation schedules.
....
Do not substitute the products in the purple section for the ones in the green....

I understand using the different schedules.
But FF has at least 4 different schedules for soil. I saved 3 of them.
They don't describe why there are these different schedules for soil.
At the moment the '2 Part Cultivation Nation' schedule will not finish downloading. Those are dry nutes.
The '3 Part Cult Nat' schedule is so simple compared to the other schedules, but it uses liquid nutes.

Just to be environmentally better, I'd like to use the dry nutes, so I'm not shipping water and having to recycle so many plastic bottles. Plus I'm sure you get more nutes for your dollars when you buy dry nutes and add your own water.

I may get into using the 'boutique' products later in the grow, per one of the many schedules,
but for now I plan on using the basics. I have Cha Ching, so that will be used when the time comes!
I have Dynomyco to add to the soil when building the pots.

Thanks again for all the help!

I'm still getting my grow room up and running. I'm not ready to put any of my seeds in water yet, canna and vegi!

 

[Nortonnabis]

I no longer use the Fox Farm products for my Cannabis growing .....As such, I do not pay attention to the EC and PPM numbers.

Oh my,, should I ask how you feed you plants now? Or not go there yet and just get growing!

And yet, FF lists EC/PPM Range right at the top of some schedules. Digging into the FAQ I found this:

To test the TDS, we do not recommend testing the soil runoff or placing the probe directly within the soil. Testing the TDS of the runoff does not give an accurate measure of the soil’s fertility as the runoff not only includes dissolved nutrients, but also tiny suspended soil particles, which can result in inaccurate readings. If you would like a more accurate account of the soil’s nutrient content, we recommend performing a soil slurry test.

How to Perform an At-Home Soil Slurry Test to Determine Soil pH and TDS

We recommend two slurries:

• A 1:1 slurry – mix 1 part soil to 1 part distilled water (by volume)
• A 1:5 slurry – mix 1 part soil to 5 parts distilled water (by volume)
• Thoroughly mix these slurries and allow them to sit for about 15 minutes
• Once the soil particulates has settled, check the pH and TDS of the slurry with a calibrated meter

I'll be using 100% FF soils so I can skip this testing, for now, correct?

 

[Emilya Green]

Oh my,, should I ask how you feed you plants now? Or not go there yet and just get growing!

And yet, FF lists EC/PPM Range right at the top of some schedules. Digging into the FAQ I found this:

To test the TDS, we do not recommend testing the soil runoff or placing the probe directly within the soil. Testing the TDS of the runoff does not give an accurate measure of the soil’s fertility as the runoff not only includes dissolved nutrients, but also tiny suspended soil particles, which can result in inaccurate readings. If you would like a more accurate account of the soil’s nutrient content, we recommend performing a soil slurry test.

How to Perform an At-Home Soil Slurry Test to Determine Soil pH and TDS

We recommend two slurries:

• A 1:1 slurry – mix 1 part soil to 1 part distilled water (by volume)
• A 1:5 slurry – mix 1 part soil to 5 parts distilled water (by volume)
• Thoroughly mix these slurries and allow them to sit for about 15 minutes
• Once the soil particulates has settled, check the pH and TDS of the slurry with a calibrated meter

I'll be using 100% FF soils so I can skip this testing, for now, correct?

In all of my years of growing, I have never felt a need to test the pH or TDS of my commercially bought soil, and after scores of times of re-using my soil, it has not failed yet. Especially when using FF's top of the line soils, this should not be something you have to worry about.

 

[Emilya Green]

But most importantly, how do you do the 'Feed' with FF products?
How much of the nute solution would you give to a 5 gal pot?
I'd like to see concise instructions such as '1qt per 5gal soil'. I'm simple like that....
That's where I've always had trouble in the past with indoor grows and outdoor vegis in containers.
Burnt a few... but I wasn't using FF.

As I'm understanding FF, their nutes mixed into a gallon of water are not hot enough to harm the plant and that's why they advise to 'feed to 10-15% runoff', (which is a tiny bit wasteful... ). Is this correct?

You are trying to make this too complicated. With a 5 gallon bucket, you water/feed until you reach the point of runoff, no matter how much that is. If you have mixed the nutes according to the week in the chart, then you have given the correct amount of nutrients.
There is no set number for how much water to give a 5 gallon container. Roughly in any container, watering to runoff requires about 1/3 the container size, but this is not always true. It depends on how dry the soil is, and how strong the roots are on your plant. Consider that the plant will start to uptake water as soon as you start watering, so how much the plant can pull up is also a factor.
It is not necessary to water to 10-15% runoff, because yes, it is wasteful. Water until you see runoff start, and then stop watering for half an hour or so. Come back a second time and top it off again, just to the point of runoff. At that point you can be reasonably sure that you saturated the soil.

 

[Nortonnabis]

Thanks Emmie, that's the kind of explanation I wanted.
Water/Feed/Water, allowing to dry between.

Then judging when it's dry and is ready for the next water or feed is the next question... It can wait...
I read you can judge by weight or plant appearance? Are those 3" probe meters worth a hoot?

 

[SmokingWings]

But FF has at least 4 different schedules for soil. I saved 3 of them.

Why? You are only going to be using the one. Don't worry about the other schedules right now.

I'll be using 100% FF soils so I can skip this testing, for now, correct?

You can skip it forever if you want.

They don't describe why there are these different schedules for soil.

Because there are 3 different fertilizer programs that are available for soil. It does not mean that you or I or anyone else must use all three. It is like asking why Ford Motor Company has different models available on display in each dealer's showroom.

Just to be environmentally better, I'd like to use the dry nutes, so I'm not shipping water and having to recycle so many plastic bottles. Plus I'm sure you get more nutes for your dollars when you buy dry nutes and add your own water.

I understand being worried about the environment. If you are worried about the 'carbon footprint' keep in mind that the bottles of liquid are concentrates and each bottle when mixed as directed is enough to get through several grows of several plants each time. The dry stuff still has weight so there is carbon being burned to transport across the country. Plus all the energy that had to be used to extract the chemicals, mix them and then dry them so they can be put in the canisters and transported. The single biggest cost in producing dry fertilizers has been the cost of drying the water out of them at the factory.

Oh my,, should I ask how you feed you plants now? Or not go there yet and just get growing!

No. Get growing. Pick that one fertilizing schedule, study it, use it. Get through to the end and then do it again.

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks Emmie, that's the kind of explanation I wanted.
Water/Feed/Water, allowing to dry between.

Then judging when it's dry and is ready for the next water or feed is the next question... It can wait...
I read you can judge by weight or plant appearance? Are those 3" probe meters worth a hoot?

Until you have gotten through 5-10 full grows, you are not ready to read the plants by appearance. Get used to the wet/dry cycle first and see how the plant reacts when it is ready for water. I describe this pretty well in my How to Water Properly thread, but basically the droop begins in the lower leaves and moves up the trunk as the water begins to run out. I doubt you have ever seen that, as much as you have been watering.

You can judge by weight how much water is in there. Lift a similar container filled with fresh DRY soil in your left hand. Lift your plant container in your right hand. If your human senses can tell a difference, it is NOT time yet to water. Your soil needs to be as dry as the Sahara desert before it is time to water.

Or get a probe, longer than 3 inches, or a wooden dipstick. Your goal is to figure out where the lake of water beneath the soil is at, because gravity pulls all the water down toward the bottom. It is not time to water until the top of that underground lake is no more than 2" from the bottom of the container. Your probe has two useful readings, moist and wet. Slowly push the probe tips toward the bottom and watch for the needle to peg over to the right side, indicating wet. You have just found the top of the water table. Do this daily and you can get an exact idea how much water per day your plant is using. If using a wooden dowel, push it in all the way to the bottom and let it sit there for 15 minutes. When you pull it out, the soaked part under the water table should be obvious. Again, wait for the water table to drop down into the last inch or two before watering again.

 

[Nortonnabis]

I doubt you have ever seen that, as much as you have been watering.

Ha ha,
My seeds haven't seen any water yet. Still building the room.
Thanks again for the great explanations on all of this so far!

But I have done incredible adequate, for the time, outdoor grows in my yute and one indoor ~7 years ago that was not good. All I had was an old High Times article.
And now it's all legal! What an incredible time this is!
And I am a pepper and tomato growing fool !!

Why, just yesterday I up-potted a Valentines citronella plant using FF soil, dash of Dynomyco and FF Grow Big! I used 3 tsp/Gal per label and slowly watered to run off, because I know how to do that now!
Thanks Emmie!

It felt like a lot of nutes. I would never give that much to a pot using miraclegrow. I got in trouble with that stuff so often...

 

[cbdhemp808]

I'll chime in here... I'm a natural outdoor organic soil grower, so this is a bit outside my playground, but... those plants – gorgeous as they are – look like mighty midgets on steriods already! Giant deep green fan leaves, vigorous growth, small plants packed into relatively small pots. The only thing I can suggest is to make the overall environment mimic nature a bit more. But what do I know...

 

[dr.h00k]

IMHO, you have to know the system you decide to grow with, and that takes some time and study...some successes, and some failures will happen along the way, whether it's a brand de jour nute company, or your own foray into orgainic's...the last few years, I have chosen the latter, with no regrets, and a fatter wallet...cheerz... ..h00k...

 

[Vasdef]

Am I reading this wrong? You need 11 bottles of nutrients?

 

[Emilya Green]

Am I reading this wrong? You need 11 bottles of nutrients?

Only if you want to use the full system, and few do that just because of the cost. I found that I got a pretty decent Fox Farm grow just by using the base trio and the 3 solubles.

 

[Vasdef]

Only if you want to use the full system, and few do that just because of the cost. I found that I got a pretty decent Fox Farm grow just by using the base trio and the 3 solubles.

Ok, just curious. Im currently using the 3 GH nutes.

 

[Emilya Green]

Ok, just curious. Im currently using the 3 GH nutes.

And I apply one single set of granules to the top of my soil once every two weeks. We all have our preferred methods. Back when I started this, Fox Farms was one of the very best scientific grow systems out there and I really enjoyed mixing up those multicolored liquids... Now I prefer the ease of @GeoFlora Nutrients. Times change, and people do too.

 

[Vasdef]

Maybe next grow ill think about that. Im doing hydro, btw.