Still haven’t figured out how to identify problems
- Thread starter Failwyn
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AdaminCO
Well-Known Member
@Emilya is a good resource for soil and Fox Farm deficiencies. Maybe she can help.
You’ll need to provide more details though.
Feed/light schedule, nutrients, plant age, Soil type, maybe a picture of the whole plant.
You’re spot one with Ph if you’re in soil.
I believe you’ll need more than just Grow Big. You’ll probably need to get the FF Trio and follow the feed schedule they provide to be sure you’re getting it right.
You’ll need to provide more details though.
Feed/light schedule, nutrients, plant age, Soil type, maybe a picture of the whole plant.
You’re spot one with Ph if you’re in soil.
I believe you’ll need more than just Grow Big. You’ll probably need to get the FF Trio and follow the feed schedule they provide to be sure you’re getting it right.
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- #3
She’s a Blackberry Kush clone, about 3 weeks since rooting, in Fox Farms Ocean soil, been getting plain 6.3 PH water until the 15th when I added 5ml Grow Big to a gallon of water, PH adjusted to 6.3 after adding.
I have the trio, I just started adding it in slow to avoid over doing the nutrients.
I have the trio, I just started adding it in slow to avoid over doing the nutrients.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Timidity has no place in a marijuana garden. So you are trying not to overfeed, and you end up with a multi element deficiency. This doesn't shock me. You should download the FF soil feeding chart to see what you should have been doing this last 3 weeks. Wherever you read that FFOF soil is so strong that you don't have to feed for 3 weeks needs to be put on your ban list. You just got fooled by bro-science. Not everyone online knows what they are doing.She’s a Blackberry Kush clone, about 3 weeks since rooting, in Fox Farms Ocean soil, been getting plain 6.3 PH water until the 15th when I added 5ml Grow Big to a gallon of water, PH adjusted to 6.3 after adding.
I have the trio, I just started adding it in slow to avoid over doing the nutrients.
It often helps to follow the directions, especially when using a scientifically designed grow system such as fox farm. If you had, you would have known better than to starve your plants for 3 weeks. If you had started using the nutrients as recommended, your plants would be 5 times this size already and you would be well into a very good yield, and you wouldn't have these deficiencies.
So considering what you have been doing, and not doing, your plants look pretty good and at least you are not burning them. You can do a lot better though... and so far no harm, but you need to get on it now. I would suggest starting at week 2 of veg on the feeding chart, giving every bit they recommend. Get rid of the milliliters measurements and stop worrying about ppm and give the proper teaspoons per gallon that they recommend. I think you will be very pleasantly surprised what happens when you do.
I also suspect due to the lack of drip trays, that you are not watering to runoff when you water and that means you are not watering properly either. The wet/dry cycle is very important to track when you are growing these weeds, and I invite you to read my paper on how to properly water so that you can gain this valuable skill. The link is in my signature lines.
Again, you appear to be doing ok running this the way you are doing, but I want to suggest to you that there are much better methods that will give you much better results. Bottom line, when you spend a bunch of money on a grow system, follow that system to the letter. I suggest that you get the 3 solubles too... using those products at the proper times will really jump start your grow.
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- #5
Do you have a link to the proper fox farms schedule? I have found a half dozen different schedules, not sure which is right. I did hear a lot of people say not to give nutes for the first few weeks, this is only my second plant, so I have a lot to learn. I wanter to overflow, the sop it up with a towel, I gotta suck it up and just buy some trays, I just got another light (Mars Hydro TS1000, current light is TS600) so I can get two plants going at a time, got a good humidifier, and upgraded my AC Infinity Fan Controller, I’m supposed to be trying to be economical during the learning period, probably being penny wise and pound foolish…
// what are the three solubles? I’ve never heard that term.
AdaminCO
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #7
Wow! I have been grossly under feeding!!!
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
yes you have. The solubles are the ones in purple at the bottom. That trio is fairly cheap and the one purchase will last you for a few years.
AdaminCO
Well-Known Member
Yeah it sounded that way to me also. I haven’t used FF nutrients in a few years, but 5mL definitely didn’t sound right.
I’ve used their soil in just about every grow either partially or completely. No complaints besides I wish they used bigger perlite.
Get a tray and pot lifter so watering to runoff is easier and not as messy.
This is what I use….
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Let me add something else for you... note that the feeding chart says to feed up to twice a week. What this really means is to water/feed/water/feed... all through the grow. With containers averaging around 3 days between waterings to get a proper wet/dry cycle, with the feed / water / feed / water schedule you will end up feeding about twice a week. Don't stress on this, just be sure to give plain pH adjusted water between feedings... the system assumes that you are doing this.
I can see how someone could be confused, as this is what the Fox Farm Website says in their Frequently Asked Questions:
Q: When do I feed my plants after planting in Ocean Forest.
A: "Ocean Forest® combines the goodness of land and sea to create a blend that feeds for about 3-4 weeks. During that time, you can use plain water, or for extra nutrition you can feed with Big Bloom®, which is the OMRI listed base of our liquid line.
After 3-4 weeks, we recommend that you begin feeding with a FoxFarm fertilizer appropriate for your plants’ stage of growth. When mixing multiple nutrients, please be sure to follow the directions on our Soil Feeding Schedule, found here."
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I have said all along, follow the directions. Your point is however a good one; the directions can be confusing. Please note on the chart that even seedlings are given nutrients, and after only 7 days you give the good stuff. Yes, we all know FFOF is great soil and a timid grower can get by with no feed for a bit, if they like yellowing leaves... but why? Garden like a boss my friend, in the Fox Farm world, by following the directions.
Nortonnabis
Well-Known Member
And then what do you do with the runoff in the trays?
Especially when you are doing the 3X flush...
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I used to carry my plants to the bathroom for that job and then two of us would carry them back. A shop vac works too. The little bit of runoff in the drip trays can be dealt with with a turkey baster and a bucket
Unless you have a pump system you take them outdoors or to the tub, and do the flush. Yes it's a PITA, I have to do it with 10 gal. bags, and I have to use a dolly to move them. (Tried without a dolly and the bag handles broke!)
Nortonnabis
Well-Known Member
The 'Soil Feeding Schedule' I'm looking at has 4 purple lines of weird products at the bottom.
Us noobs should be using the 3 products in the green colors, correct? They are used just about start to finish.
Ok, I found it, "Cultivation Nation" 3 part" soil schedule. WTH is that and how is it different than the plain 'Soil Schd'?The four bottom products are the same on both...
OK, I found it, Cultivation Nation is powder nutes and Big Bloom, Grow Big and Tiger Bloom are liquids with much, much lower NPK numbers, and organic? Is that the big difference?Why would you buy both when you are just trying to get the NPK into the soil?
(So much plastic and water in those liquid ones, not so environmentally friendly..)
I'm sure they suggest using all 14 of the listed products...
Oops, 15 counting Sledgehammer....
Crap, I just read some science guy saying the whole punch-up of P during flowering may be Bro Science...
But I have a jar of Cha Ching from years ago, so I'll use it!
More noob questions.
And then on this 1st Schedule:
1. "Maintain a pH of ..." - It is not saying to test the soil or to adjust the gallon of nutes mixed in your tap water.
(I know the nute feedings should be adjusted, but do we ever do the procedure to test the soil?)
2. "EC and PPM Range"- I assume this is measuring the "10-15%" runoff" after a feeding, but it is not defined exactly.
Should pH also be measure in the runoff?
Is there a more detailed section to FF recommendations? Or do you have to sift thru the FAQs?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Lots here... let me dissect it....The 'Soil Feeding Schedule' I'm looking at has 4 purple lines of weird products at the bottom.
Us noobs should be using the 3 products in the green colors, correct? They are used just about start to finish.
The four bottom products are the same on both...
Why would you buy both when you are just trying to get the NPK into the soil?
(So much plastic and water in those liquid ones, not so environmentally friendly..)
I'm sure they suggest using all 14 of the listed products...
Crap, I just read some science guy saying the whole punch-up of P during flowering may be Bro Science...
But I have a jar of Cha Ching from years ago, so I'll use it!
More noob questions.
And then on this 1st Schedule:
1. "Maintain a pH of ..." - It is not saying to test the soil or to adjust the gallon of nutes mixed in your tap water.
(I know the nute feedings should be adjusted, but do we ever do the procedure to test the soil?)
2. "EC and PPM Range"- I assume this is measuring the "10-15%" runoff" after a feeding, but it is not defined exactly.
Should pH also be measure in the runoff?
Is there a more detailed section to FF recommendations? Or do you have to sift thru the FAQs?
There are exactly 3 lines in the purple, not 4. Noobs should get those 3 products, to use with the 3 products in green. Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz and Chaching. Only use them when they are called for.
Don't worry about the npk numbers... fox farms is a system that uses everything together. Use exactly as recommended, with NO EXTRA PRODUCTS and you will get a spectacular grow. Don't worry about the other products for now.
Don't try to analyze the p levels. Put your science guy on hold... you are trusting the scientists at fox farms... tell the bro science guy to go away. Don't try to dance with two partners... you will fall down.
Don't worry about soil pH, just make sure that the pH of any fluid that hits your soil is adjusted to 6.3 pH... water or water mixed with nutes. You do not EVER test the soil, or you will be listening to the bro science guy. Your soil is fine and just where it needs to be. ONLY adjust the fluids going in.
EC and PPM has no place in soil. Anyone advising you to use these measurements has no idea what they are doing. Just use the tsp/gallon measurements and don't even think about the EC or PPM... those things are for the hydro folks to worry about and you are in soil so you don't have to worry about that stuff.
Runoff in soil will not tell you a thing that is useful. The pH will not correspond to anything up top and will only confuse you. Do not worry about the pH or PPM of the runoff. You shouldnt have much runoff anyway. This nonsense of watering to 10% or 20% runoff is again bro science and does not help anything. Slowly water your container until you just achieve runoff. Stop. Come back in half an hour and again slowly water until runoff just starts. STOP. You have just saturated the soil. This is soil, and those measurements of PPM and PH runoff are worthless. Anyone advising you otherwise, again has no idea what they are doing.
There is no more detailed reference available from Fox Farms. The directions they do give apparently can confused people, but have no fear... I am here. I successfully ran Fox Farms for several years and got quite good with it, and I totally understand their system. Basically follow the directions. If something doesn't make sense to you, please ask the questions as you have here. Please do not go to youtube or a hydro shop to ask those questions, because many people will lie to you and many others simply don't have the needed experience with the product to be able to answer your questions that I do. I am here to help, you only need to ask.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Who advised you to use another nute system along with your Fox farms? Kick this person in the shins and tell them to go away. They apparently are trying to ruin your grow.
AdaminCO
Well-Known Member
Get creative my friend.
Nortonnabis
Well-Known Member
Now that's what I'm talking about!!Get creative my friend.
Do you have a screen filter on the pickup hose? Or can this pump handle small sediment?
And what is this style of pump called? Is it a water garden pump?
I just ordered the 'elevators' to keep the cloth pots off the tray bottom! Thanks for the detailed pictures!
