does anyone have experience with "sweetners". Recently started using "FOOP" Sweetner (Bio-Science) it has 8 organic sugars _ said use states use in veg and flower. basicly we are talking about "carbs". can't understand use in veg - flower and flush - OK - help me understand "carbs" in marijuana. the more reading about it - they seem necessary? - don't really hear about these products and use. Are they a waste of money ?
Sweetners
- Thread starter safeman
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The sugars do nothing directly for the plants, the sugars feed the microbes in the soil, which helps them convert nutrients into forms available to the plants. You can accomplish basically the same thing much more cheaply by using unsulfered blackstrap molasses. A lot of hype by the seller, and very expensive.
What Phytoplankton said, but is this an LOS grow or synthetic nute grow?
If it's LOS, also this:
If it's LOS, also this:
Does Molasses Improve Soil and Plant Growth?
Should you add molasses to your garden and compost pile? Does it feed the microbes and is it necessary? Is it good for yo0ur plants?
www.gardenmyths.com
You’d be surprised by how many companies that you would think are reputable sell
. Nutes that are lacking essential macros for a healthy grow and micros. CL
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
This is just an image for example any brand would work; I substitute Molasses for this one this year. Feeds the hard working microbes in the soil.
This is Sprouted Barley
The company's web site says pretty much what the others have already mentioned. The Molasses and other sugars in the stuff will help to feed the soil organisms and keeps their population levels large and healthy. The website also mentions that the sugars make the plant sweeter but many people here do not believe that claim no matter who says it.
There are other products on the shelves at the grow shops that have Molasses mixed in with fertilizers, minerals, etc. Up to the grower to look them over and figure if there are benefits to those or whether to stick with plain ol' Molasses.
The article is good, but if you consistently water with molasses water you can keep the microbe count up, but truly, even if you don't it still provides a blast of nute availability. It's about the opposite of the dechlorinated water debate, yes chlorinated water will kill soil microbes, but, it has been shown that within 24 hours after using chlorinated water, the microbe count is back to where it was before the chlorine. Microbes (bacteria) double in population every 20 minutes.
There are a couple other issues with the article, particularly the part about adding compost/ wood chips to feed the microbes, that works, BUT, you need to add N for the microbes to be able to break down the wood. You need about a 15 to 1 carbon to nitrogen ratio, otherwise the microbes will rob N from the soil or produce ammonia (wood chips average about 300 to1 C to N ratio.
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- #9
Growers will buy anything if they think it will boost production/quality. The problem is the term "Sweetner", it has no definition and is a marketing term . More accurately it boosts the amount of nutrients available to the plant, until the sugar is consummed by the microbes. Cannabis does not absorb sugars through the roots, sugars are produced by photosynthesis, and transported through the plant in the sap. The sugars feed the microbes and the microbes supply the plant with NPK and other micronutrients (but NOT sugar). Also the "sweetner" is less effective in synthetic soil grows, since most of the nutrients are being supplied directly to the plants through the fertilizer, bypassing the microbes.
I tried the use of Molasses on an "off and on" basis. My end result is that it did nothing for the plants in the long run. It did not hurt either but the boost in healthy growth just did not happen.
Right but it is not as bad as some are making it out to be. Mixing in wood chips into a compost pile is not a real problem as long as enough "green material" is also mixed in. Things like grass clippings, freshly pulled weeds, the current year's growth of twigs and stem from trees and shrubs, just about anything green and growing has Nitrogen in it and will be used by the soil organisms.
Plus, at what point does the active decomposing no longer need someone to add Nitrogen because it is becoming available from the decomposing wood itself. Mix up the pile and keep it moist, not water-logged, and most of the time the wood chips have decomposed enough that there is a good chance that the pile does not need extra Nitrogen after a couple of months. The big problem is when people spread a layer several several inches thick, do not add in the green materials and then do not even mix the pile.
The use of composted wood chips, saw dust, and tree bark is getting to be a major ingredient in packaged "potting soil". Look at how many bags of soil list "composted forest products" as one of the first several ingredients in those soils.
I am still working on how long it takes to compost wood chips when the chips are 50% of the pile. It might be only a year as long as the moisture level is maintained.
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
As long as the wood is not Cedar, wood is good. Its acid and fungicide meaning it will affect PH of soil and will take for ever to break down, cedar that is.
The “composted” forest products are usually composted with extra nitrogen added. Once they’re well broken down, then they’re fine. Raw wood chips and sawdust take a long time to break down without added N.
Yes. The way I see it the problem is that if I tell someone that wood chips need a fair amount of Nitrogen to break down and decompose then some of those new and/or inexperienced gardener assumes that this means that 'wood chips are bad'. Sort of along the lines of 'sweetners' helping to feed the micro-organisms is good. There is more info that helps to explain what is going on.
End result was that pieces of wood, bark, and wood chips found in potting soil mixes was a good thing as I had figured. The wood being found did not mean that the companies were trying to go on the cheap and mixing wood in to add bulk and rip off the customer. Those pieces of wood hold colonies of soil micro-organisms. The decomposing pieces of wood can act like small anchors for plant roots. They will act like sponges and soak up and hold water longer than a soil without decomposing wood mixed in.
While a source of Nitrogen will jump start the decomposition there is a point where the Nitrogen released from the first bits of wood is what keeps the process going. My feel is that there is no need to keep adding it because the soil organisms are releasing all the Nitrogen that is need to keep the process going and plenty to spare that can be used by the plants.
Blood Meal came up several times as a good way to add the first dose Nitrogen.
Commercial 'wood chip composting' operations have tweaked the process and spend two years from building the piles to the final sifting and delivering the compost.
In early-mid May of last year I became interested enough in how the 'forest products' wood based compost was being made that I started to research it. For several hours a day I would ask myself questions and then would chang the questions as I followed links while reading articles, blogs and commercial web sites. After a few days I wrote a few questions down and made phone calls.
End result was that pieces of wood, bark, and wood chips found in potting soil mixes was a good thing as I had figured. The wood being found did not mean that the companies were trying to go on the cheap and mixing wood in to add bulk and rip off the customer. Those pieces of wood hold colonies of soil micro-organisms. The decomposing pieces of wood can act like small anchors for plant roots. They will act like sponges and soak up and hold water longer than a soil without decomposing wood mixed in.
While a source of Nitrogen will jump start the decomposition there is a point where the Nitrogen released from the first bits of wood is what keeps the process going. My feel is that there is no need to keep adding it because the soil organisms are releasing all the Nitrogen that is need to keep the process going and plenty to spare that can be used by the plants.
Blood Meal came up several times as a good way to add the first dose Nitrogen.
Commercial 'wood chip composting' operations have tweaked the process and spend two years from building the piles to the final sifting and delivering the compost.
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- #15
That is one way of putting it.
''On the other hand, if using them helps the gardener pay attention to what their plants are doing it might be money well spent even if it does not work as advertised.
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- #17
how true __ ThanksThat is one way of putting it.
On the other hand, if using them helps the gardener pay attention to what their plants are doing it might be money well spent even if it does not work as advertised.
There are charts listing the C to N ratios of different plants, leaves, barks and woods Back from soil science class, I remember there’s a formula to determine how much ammonium nitrate fertilizer you needed to add to different vegetations to get the 15 to 1 C to N ratio. With a 300 to 1 C to N ratio, there is almost no point at which enough N is released from the wood chip/sawdust to keep the reaction going, without additional N from another source. Now, that could be grass clippings (5 to 1 C to N ratio), dead leaves, etc., that have more N in them than is needed to decompose the material. The place I buy bulk soil from always add 15-15-15 to the compost mix when they make it.
In my experience running mother bonsais and pulling clones annually, when I used molasses one year I tasted and smelled a difference. I wouldn't say it was sweeter.
I monthly added molasses to my organically amended soil and the terpenes were more pronounced. This again is only my experience and had the results from mother bonsais who would produce same year after year. They were AC/DC and Harley-Tsu. Both are CBD's and produced same year after year. The yield wasn't any better and buds weren't bigger, but the terpene profile improved on both and became more pungent.
I monthly added molasses to my organically amended soil and the terpenes were more pronounced. This again is only my experience and had the results from mother bonsais who would produce same year after year. They were AC/DC and Harley-Tsu. Both are CBD's and produced same year after year. The yield wasn't any better and buds weren't bigger, but the terpene profile improved on both and became more pungent.
Could it be that your soil was lacking sulfur, which is supposed to be related to terpene development and shows up in some molasseseseses? Just a thought.
