True North Seeds Sponsor Billing Dispute

[ed the head]

I appreciate you posting this.

I ordered from this vendor in April and didn't pay for the insurance. I've been sending things internationally for half a century (I started importing electronics products from the US in 1971 as a teenager) and have lived in dozens places in the US, Canada, and overseas and have never lost a package. Given that, I figured that my order wouldn't have any problems.

I was wrong.

TNS sent an envelope that got to Chicago and then disappeared. I asked them to replace the order and they refused. As a result, I will never buy seeds from TNS again. That's a 10 or, perhaps 20, year revenue stream of which they will receive exactly $0.00.

I have some insights as to why they don't replace lost orders and I believe it is a defensible business decision. In a nutshell, their decision is based on the belief that the cost or replacing the order ($25 for a $125 order?) is greater than the potential profit from me as a customer.

Given that it was my first order, they have no track record so they use a default "customer profile" based on their own data, based on data from sites like this one, and a host of other issues. My theory is that most of their customers, like many of the memberships here, are not decades-long customers. I suspect that their average customer places a few orders and then is not heard from again. That's not a knock on TNS; my conclusions are based on a variety of factors including the nature of the business (most of the customers for cannabis seeds were breaking the law until just a few years ago), the fact that the market is an incredibly new market (due to changes in cannabis laws), and that the audience here is relatively young (the younger you are buying habits and habits, in general, are more in flux).

Adding it all up, it's extremely hard for anyone to know what the seed vendor market will look like. Compare that to products such as housing, clothing, or automobiles and it's apparent that the risk factor is pretty high in selling cannabis seeds. So, they err on the side of caution and devise business practices accordingly.

And I've devised my business strategy according to the data on hand. I know I will never buy seeds from TNS again

I know that there are dozens of other seed vendors and I know that the only time I've ordered seeds and not received the order was from TNS. But having a package get lost is highly unlikely to happen again in my lifetime so, one could argue that there's no reason to not order from TNS, right?

Nope, because another thing I know is that TNS will not replace lost seeds unless I pay significant cost for "insurance" so that brings me to another thing that we know - I know I will never buy seeds from TNS again.

Back to your issue — I hope that your situation with TNS gets resolved quickly and to your satisfaction. Keep us posted.

Thank you for your perspective. I figured I wasn't alone among our community as far as TNS problems.

Even after @420 intervened, all I've gotten from TNS was an email where they claim they will send a refund. I am supposed to get an email confirming my refund was sent. I have yet to see this email, or the refund.

Unlike you, I was a repeat TNS customer. I was a happy and enthusiastic supporter of their business. I even referred people there.

It seems TNS undervalues their their return customers too.

Very sorry for your troubles. As to TNS, I have little sympathy. $10-$15 per seed seems more than ample margin to my eyes.

 

[Delps8]

Ed - I didn’t want to hijack the thread but I thought my experience might be of interest to others. What really got my goat was when I read the complete BS of “your recent troubles” - that just crap.
BTW, if you pay by credit card, call your bank, file a case, and try to get a charge back. It’s been, what, 5 months in your case and it appears that TNS is completely in the wrong so you might be able to get reimbursed that way.

I didn't go that route because, as far as I could tell, common law dictates that, given that I specified the shipper, TNS is off the hook.

"Unlike you, I was a repeat TNS customer. I was a happy and enthusiastic supporter of their business. I even referred people there.

It seems TNS undervalues their their return customers too."
That puts a damper on my theory that they made a reasoned business decision. I would add the quote about never attributing to malice that which could be a result of stupidity because it sounds like your issue involves more than one individual. It’s unlikely that a CSR and the CSR's manager would decide to go off script. So that leads right into your comment "It seems TNS undervalues their their return customers too.” Apparently so - it may well not be ineptitude of a few people but could be a function of poor business practices.

"Very sorry for your troubles. As to TNS, I have little sympathy. $10-$15 per seed seems more than ample margin to my eyes.”
My money’s in the wind and I have to accept that it lost it fairly and squarely. $10 - $15 might imply that they’re making decent money but my recollection is that they’re prices were pretty much in line with the rest of the industry. I want seed vendors to make money - that way than can bring new products into the market and provide good service. What’s bogus is when they play games like they’re doing with you.

 

[ed the head]

Ed - I didn’t want to hijack the thread but I thought my experience might be of interest to others. What really got my goat was when I read the complete BS of “your recent troubles” - that just crap.
BTW, if you pay by credit card, call your bank, file a case, and try to get a charge back. It’s been, what, 5 months in your case and it appears that TNS is completely in the wrong so you might be able to get reimbursed that way.

I didn't go that route because, as far as I could tell, common law dictates that, given that I specified the shipper, TNS is off the hook.

"Unlike you, I was a repeat TNS customer. I was a happy and enthusiastic supporter of their business. I even referred people there.

It seems TNS undervalues their their return customers too."
That puts a damper on my theory that they made a reasoned business decision. I would add the quote about never attributing to malice that which could be a result of stupidity because it sounds like your issue involves more than one individual. It’s unlikely that a CSR and the CSR's manager would decide to go off script. So that leads right into your comment "It seems TNS undervalues their their return customers too.” Apparently so - it may well not be ineptitude of a few people but could be a function of poor business practices.

"Very sorry for your troubles. As to TNS, I have little sympathy. $10-$15 per seed seems more than ample margin to my eyes.”
My money’s in the wind and I have to accept that it lost it fairly and squarely. $10 - $15 might imply that they’re making decent money but my recollection is that they’re prices were pretty much in line with the rest of the industry. I want seed vendors to make money - that way than can bring new products into the market and provide good service. What’s bogus is when they play games like they’re doing with you.

I am glad you shared your experience. It helps demonstrate a pattern common among our community.

Individually, each of us are viewed as very small fish to TNS. They're akin to Automobile Insurance providers that take your money for years but drop you the instant you file a claim.

Our collective community value also appears very low. As you observed, I could have disputed this claim with my credit card company* and retrieved the funds months ago. As of right now, TNS hasn't even sent me the funds issued email confirmation promised last Thursday. Since that time, it is a certainty that TNS has taken in many more new orders, plenty of time for that. Cleaning up messes like mine and yours, not so much on the agenda.

----

*TNS screwed up my very first order too. Because the money owed equation was the other way around, they were SUPER responsive. I ordered about $200 worth of seeds charged to my credit card. I then noticed a $900 charge from an unrecognized Beijing China based merchant, so I disputed the charge. This was actually the TNS charge - why was it labeled China? - Why was the figure wrong? - I never really found out, but TNS was oh so friendly to get their money because the shipment already shipped.

Thank you very much for sharing your experience

 

[ed the head]

Hi @True North Seed Bank , inquiring here because you're not responding to Friday's or today's email requesting confirmation you've sent my refund?

 

[ed the head]

Well, I got an email reply, it's pasted below Have a wonderful weekend? It's Monday
I wrote back, Thank you but considering it took escalation to get a response I'll inquire every day until it is RESOLVED.
Meanwhile, Tempus Fugit and the views keep piling up.


@True North Seed Bank

Hey Edward !

Happy Monday ,

Do apologize for the delay response you were my last email on Friday and we are not open during the weekend

Good news your payment is being sent out this week and you will receive the tracking number when it has been completed. I just spoke with the department and they were processing your payment at the bank today !

Keep a eye on your email for the refund tracking number

Hope you had a wonderful weekend !

Thank you

Best Regards,

 

[Delps8]

I'm pretty much on the opposite end of the writing spectrum from whoever penned that email so I look at that and cringe. It's also a tight labor market so you've got to make do with what you've got, I guess.

"Good news your payment is being sent out this week and you will receive the tracking number when it has been completed. I just spoke with the department and they were processing your payment at the bank today !"
I would have thought that they would just do a credit to your credit card. Instead, it sounds like a cashier's check. The latter is anonymous but very expensive - one of their employees has to schlep to the bank with a check (I assume), and then they have to hump it back to the company and put the cashier's in FedEx or whatever. Why? Weird but at least you will get you your $$ back. Of course, there's the time what you've pissed away trying to get them to come clean.

Glad you got your money and are moving on to other vendors.

 

[ed the head]

I'm pretty much on the opposite end of the writing spectrum from whoever penned that email so I look at that and cringe. It's also a tight labor market so you've got to make do with what you've got, I guess.

"Good news your payment is being sent out this week and you will receive the tracking number when it has been completed. I just spoke with the department and they were processing your payment at the bank today !"
I would have thought that they would just do a credit to your credit card. Instead, it sounds like a cashier's check. The latter is anonymous but very expensive - one of their employees has to schlep to the bank with a check (I assume), and then they have to hump it back to the company and put the cashier's in FedEx or whatever. Why? Weird but at least you will get you your $$ back. Of course, there's the time what you've pissed away trying to get them to come clean.

Glad you got your money and are moving on to other vendors.

Will let everyone know if and when I get the money
So far just promises

 

[safeman]

Hello Ed,

I would like to apologize for your recent experience with us. We will happily look into and resolve this issue with you.

TNSB is a Canadian based company who strives on shipping both domestic and international orders in a safe and efficient manner. In order to secure your orders arrival we offer stealth shipping options as well as shipping insurance - purchasing insurance will ensure that any misplaced orders are reshipped OR refunded to our customers at no further expense. We will need proof of confiscations from the post in order to honour our insurance policy - otherwise it would make for some happy scammers lol!

After reviewing your order 100191987-1 and tracking number it looks like last we were waiting for proof of confiscation from the post (If a confiscation happens the postal service will ship your parcel with a confiscation letter) - I'd like to resolve this ASAP - I will have a CSR reach out you via email right now so please keep an eye out!

Please also note that due to COVID-19, our shipping courier Canada Post & USPS have issued a statement advising to expect shipping delays. Which we understand is SUPER frustrating We as a company are actively striving for better shipping - stay tuned to our newsletter for new things to come for our friends in the US!

Your feedback is much appreciated,

-True North Seed Bank

just to let you know - have issues with one bank (WeedFamilyGuardianTree) sent cash and they never received it and after contacting them by phone they sent order even tho they didn't receive their money, What I'm saying is True North should have all ready sent money/seeds to customer - way too long to slove tgis problem (they sent to because they din't want to lose a customer)

 

[safeman]

I appreciate you posting this.

I ordered from this vendor in April and didn't pay for the insurance. I've been sending things internationally for half a century (I started importing electronics products from the US in 1971 as a teenager) and have lived in dozens places in the US, Canada, and overseas and have never lost a package. Given that, I figured that my order wouldn't have any problems.

I was wrong.

TNS sent an envelope that got to Chicago and then disappeared. I asked them to replace the order and they refused. As a result, I will never buy seeds from TNS again. That's a 10 or, perhaps 20, year revenue stream of which they will receive exactly $0.00.

I have some insights as to why they don't replace lost orders and I believe it is a defensible business decision. In a nutshell, their decision is based on the belief that the cost or replacing the order ($25 for a $125 order?) is greater than the potential profit from me as a customer.

Given that it was my first order, they have no track record so they use a default "customer profile" based on their own data, based on data from sites like this one, and a host of other issues. My theory is that most of their customers, like many of the memberships here, are not decades-long customers. I suspect that their average customer places a few orders and then is not heard from again. That's not a knock on TNS; my conclusions are based on a variety of factors including the nature of the business (most of the customers for cannabis seeds were breaking the law until just a few years ago), the fact that the market is an incredibly new market (due to changes in cannabis laws), and that the audience here is relatively young (the younger you are buying habits and habits, in general, are more in flux).

Adding it all up, it's extremely hard for anyone to know what the seed vendor market will look like. Compare that to products such as housing, clothing, or automobiles and it's apparent that the risk factor is pretty high in selling cannabis seeds. So, they err on the side of caution and devise business practices accordingly.

And I've devised my business strategy according to the data on hand. I know I will never buy seeds from TNS again

I know that there are dozens of other seed vendors and I know that the only time I've ordered seeds and not received the order was from TNS. But having a package get lost is highly unlikely to happen again in my lifetime so, one could argue that there's no reason to not order from TNS, right?

Nope, because another thing I know is that TNS will not replace lost seeds unless I pay significant cost for "insurance" so that brings me to another thing that we know - I know I will never buy seeds from TNS again.

Back to your issue — I hope that your situation with TNS gets resolved quickly and to your satisfaction. Keep us posted.

TNS is what ?

 

[Roy Growin]

I'm beginning to feel your pain - this is a cluster fk that has been going on for months
What can you do? Hope for the refund (no compensation, good will?) and move on
Funny - it's still illegal UK but my seeds are on the doormat next day

 

[ed the head]

there's hope ...