White Widow Indoors - Second Grow - Wisdom Wanted

[MaineGreenery]

Thanks Krip. I will do just that.

Another question. I have read that some people top as soon as the plant reaches the 3rd internode (topping right above the third) and I have also read that some people wait until the plant grows the fourth or even fifth internode and then top (still above the third internode). My understanding is that waiting allows the plant to develop more roots and better rebound from the trauma. I wonder if this is worth it though, since both ways end up adding an extra week to grow time?

Can I ask people's opinion on this? Should I top sooner or later? Are there other advantages of waiting I am not aware of? Can you clone the topped section if you wait for the additional internodes to develop? I don't really have enough space to fit more than three plants in my tent, four might work but it will be crammed, but I am still drawn to the idea of having more plants. I always want more plants!

 

[Mr. Krip]

Thanks Krip. I will do just that.

Another question. I have read that some people top as soon as the plant reaches the 3rd internode (topping right above the third) and I have also read that some people wait until the plant grows the fourth or even fifth internode and then top (still above the third internode). My understanding is that waiting allows the plant to develop more roots and better rebound from the trauma. I wonder if this is worth it though, since both ways end up adding an extra week to grow time?

Can I ask people's opinion on this? Should I top sooner or later? Are there other advantages of waiting I am not aware of? Can you clone the topped section if you wait for the additional internodes to develop? I don't really have enough space to fit more than three plants in my tent, four might work but it will be crammed, but I am still drawn to the idea of having more plants. I always want more plants!

I do a style of topping known as "Uncle Ben's Topping (UBT)" which is a style that causes the plant to grow either two or four main colas (depending on which node is topped).

The UBT calls for waiting until the 4th or 5th set of full leaves, and then topping between the 1st and 2nd nodes for two main colas, or between the 2nd and 3rd nodes for four main colas.

Topping anywhere above will cause secondary colas to form.

Here's a re-post of the original article on UBT by an old 420-Buddy who hasn't been on in a while:

Uncle Ben's Topping Method

You can clone the tops whenever you top the plants and waiting for the 4th-5th set of leaves lets the plants develop some roots and start actually vegging so it's not trying to recover from the topping (veg growth) while its putting out new roots, but I've seen and personally topped plants earlier with no issues.

 

[MaineGreenery]

Thanks for the link for the link to the UBT. It's awesome how much knowledge and experience there is out there in the collective.

What is the difference between UBT and Mainlining? Both result in 4 main colas? Am I right that the difference is that mainlining results in a longer veg period but provides a stronger and more uniform base for the colas?

 

[MaineGreenery]

Greetings from the Vacation Land. Not much to report but things are looking good. It's funny how concerned I was when they first sprouted that they looked too weak, or slightly malformed, while now they all seem fine and normal. I have begun implementing a nearly full FF feeding schedule at 1/4 strength and am excited to see if they really make a difference. The nutes I am using now are big bloom, grow big, tiger bloom, and microbe brew. I am thinking of picking up a few more, its kind of addicting getting them all. Can't wait for the girls to get a little larger and do the first topping and then transplant. I am trying to time everything so that when my current group in the flowering tent are done, my WW girls can go right in and also start the third wave to follow them up. I haven't decided what to do for the next strain. I have WW, northern lights and carnival to choose from right now. I only have two seeds of the NL and Carnival though so I am also thinking maybe I for the third wave I consider starting a mother. I am tight on space but I think that if I kept the mother small than I could keep it on a shelf outside the tent under T5ho lights along with my Veg state plants.

I digress, so here are the ladies as of yesterday, day 16.

Thanks for following along with me on my journey and helping me gain more knowledge and experience. This is the most fun and interesting hobby I have taken up in a long time. Till next time...

 

[CatnipTC]

Looking nice in here

 

[cpla]

I got those same Vigoro plastic junks under my plants lol Walmart special. 3 for a dollar! Lmao

Looking good bro! Get a fan on there to strengthen those stalks! Tree trunks or better!

 

[MaineGreenery]

Its been several days since I last got in here. Everything is good. I ended up transplanting them before topping. I just couldn't wait any longer to use the new air pots I got. I am doubtful about the whole thing, just seems strange, but like denser root growth so why not try. It did take some brainstorming about what to set them on, but I went with an inverted vigoro saucer placed in a larger one. Lets the plant drain naturally and gets some air flow around the base. Open to better ideas? Here are the girls post move.

I have expanded by selection of Fox farm products. I am subliminally drawn to the art on their containers. Going forward I will not list out what was fed, just know I will be following the FF feeding schedule. Two of the three are ready to be topped. I am going to give them one or two more days in there new homes and if they are growing then I will snip them. I really want to clone the cut pieces but doubt the cutting will be large enough, and whether I have the space in my flowering tent which is currently 3/4 full. I would likely go straight to flowering if the clones survived the cut.

I will check back in after I trim them.

 

[MaineGreenery]

My oh my. I had no intention of checking in today but after today's incident I needed to.

First, not sure how I feel about the air pots right now. I realized today how much more often I am going to be watering them. With them there current size it is an every other day schedule. This compares to every third day for another round of currently flowering plants. I'll see it through but I would impress on others who don't know otherwise that they do take more time and attention.

So I had to water them today and while at it I fed them week two ff schedule nutes. Here are the ladies prior to eating.

Wait, did you notice the third one, yellow doesn't look quite right? That is because while my back was turned my cat chomped on her. Although it was my own fault for not paying attention more, I was pissed. I saw how she looked and decided right then and there to top her. I was going to wait another couple days but I thought that the stress of the attack would blend well with the stress of topping. And then having topped yellow, I decided to top blue as well. The final one, red, I left alone as the nodes on her are really small still. Without further adieu, her they are with the new cuts.

Keeping my fingers crossed that they make it through this alright and can rebound in the next couple days.

Oh, and I couldn't resist trying to save the unmauled cutting from blue so I dipped it in some root powder, stuck it in a peat pellet and stuck it in a rigged up cloning chamber. Pretty low tech all around but it should be a good learning experience. Here is clone right after the move.

Probably not going to check in for another couple days. Hopefully with good news.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Nice work, Brother! While I use hydro for my MMJ, I grow a lot of fruits & veggies in SmartPots and am truly a big fan. However, I always warn people that one of the negatives is that they dry out quickly. In fact, they say because of the effectiveness of the root pruning, you can grow the same size plant in a SmartPot that's one size smaller. This is likely true, but then you'd really be watering every day!

Going to a larger size pot will help.

Check out Heirloom's thread. He has his SmartPots sitting in reservoirs so they get bottom fed and don't dry out as quickly.

You do need to be careful that the outside of the pots don't get hydrophobic.

I thought my Golden Retriever was pretty smart with sit, stay, shake, etc. But, I feel stupid now that I see you training your cat to clone!

 

[MaineGreenery]

Good Morning!

I am learning a lot on my first grow but I think I am going to learn as much, if not more on this one too. I watered and fed the girls yesterday, upping the strength of the nutes to 1/2 after dealing with a potential underfeeding issue on my other plants that are in the flowering phase. I am kind of wishing that I had larger containers so I wouldn't have to water as often but with the space I have I am not sure it would really be wise or worth while.

I trimmed up yellow a little more, getting rid of some damaged fan leaves that were looking a little diseased. The plant looks a little sad being so cut up but I think it is going to be ok.

I still have the fan leaves on red who has been topped. I know it says to cut them in the mainlining tutorials but I want to leave her food making surface area too. What do you all think? When is the best time to cut those leaves? When I do the next topping round? Now?

The third lady, blue is still an uncut heathen monster. I was thinking of leaving it uncut and using her as a control against the mainlined other plants but am concerned that space limitations might become an issue if they get to be different sizes because of the topping related growth delays. Will most likely top later today.

Finally, the attempted cloned cutting is not dead. It has only been a couple days so I know it is too soon to see roots but I am hopeful it will take. It looks good considering what happened to it so that is a positive. If she does take I don't know what I will do with her. Mother? Straight to flower tent? Try to fit four plants in my flowering tent next round? So many options!

Thanks for reading guys and have a great weekend!!!

 

[MaineGreenery]

Wanted to check and show off the new hair cuts the girls got yesterday. This is my first topping experience and I am not sure if it is more traumatic for me or for the plants. Because of this I have been doing it in sections and we will see if this ends up being a mistake or not.

Red has been the star of the group from day 1. I am really coddling this one and after I topped it originally I left all fan leaves on. Yesterday though I took one of the two remaining sets of fans off and think that later today the other two will come off. Guessing it will then be another week or so with some LST before I can do the next topping round. Any advice on the second topping? How many nodes to let grow? Should I do like the first topping and let 3-5 nodes grow on the new section before topping? Just curious what others have done. Here she is...

Blue which I had been leaving alone finally got the chop yesterday. She took it well and although I left all fans on her I think I will probably take them off either today or tomorrow depending on the growth I see on the remaining node. I would like to take all the fans off at once on this one to see if the recovery is different from red who has been trimmed in phases. Here is miss blue giving you her sexy look...

This brings us to poor yellow who was the victim of a horrible cat sneak attack. She seems to have mostly recovered from the assault and rather than being careful with her as I have been, I decided to go after it and cut all the growth but the third node off and jump in feet first. She looks so sad all bare but I think it is an improvement over the chewed leaf look she sported a few days ago. What do you think?

I will close with my weak effort at cloning. If you look online about how to clone I don't think much of what I have done is recommended however so far they aren't dead. I am hoping that if I can just not touch them for another few days that I will soon see roots poking out the bottom and can then make a game plan for them. See, they aren't dead!

I am going to be watering these lasses today but probably won't be on here again for a couple days.

Take Care and Be Well.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Looking good MG!

You can top just about any time. Doing it earlier just gives more time to recover and put out new growth. Doing it a little later will give you a bigger cutting to clone.

 

[cpla]

Everytime I've done clones like that, it doesn't work. Good luck but you seriously wanna get some rock wool. I built myself a clone bucket. It's a small bucket with a lid. Cut 6 holes in the lid.

*Grower secret* If you use a Keureg (or however you spell that stupid word) to make coffee, the little plastic containers work wonders. They drain perfectly. Fit thos little cups into your 6 holes in the lid.

Now get a small submergeable water pump. The kind for a fish tank. Get some pvc that fits the out spout on your water pump. Should be like a quarter inch pipe. Take that up towards your lid. Then fasten a cap to the pvc. It should look like no water can get out.

Next drill some TINY holes in the cap. This will spray water at the sides of your bucket causing a mist on the rockwool or Keureg cups you put in your lid. This will grow clones 100% of the time.

If you don't wanna diy it, buy a turbo kloner. Same thing

 

[MaineGreenery]

Thanks CPLA for the details into making a cloning machine. I checked them out online and for what they charge, I would much rather just build one. I already have just about all of the materials anyway. I am still hoping for a miracle though and that the two I started will pull through but I know that I have not done most of what you are supposed to do for a successful clone operation so expectations are pretty low.

 

[MaineGreenery]

Without their tops things have slowed down a lot for them.

Red is now fully trimmed and the two remaining nodes are starting to get some size. I started LST on her tonight with just some low tension wires but had a tough time using the fabric pot to attach them to as compared to the plastic pots I am familiar with. Any suggestions?

Yellow is doing fine. I started light LST on this one as well. I want to get as close to 90 degrees as I can.

Blue still has two fan leaves on. I am comparing the growth of it with the other two which were trimmed completely. Doesn't really seem to have made much of a difference. I hope that the additional energy is going to the roots and that is why.

The clones are looking worse. The one that was cut first is starting to yellow on the tips. I am guessing it is running out of food and I still see know evidence of roots. I misted the container and left them alone.

I used LST before and appreciated the results, enjoyed the process and liked learning about it but the time it could take when the plant got larger was considerable. I like that you are really only focused on a small area of the plant with this technique.

 

[dr.h00k]

those paper clips should work fine...use the loop on the clip, rather than trying the clamp portion and apply as much tension as Yer' comfortable with...safety pins work too...or even tie a base string around the pot, and tie tension strings to it...cheerz...h00k...

 

[MaineGreenery]

Everyone has now had a second topping. Looking at the size of the top nodes though I am worried I should have waited. I did leave all but the fan leaves that grew after the first topping. It's exciting to be seeing the plants take the intended shape although it is hard every time to eliminate so much growth. I think they were all larger one or two weeks ago before they were topped. That is ok, if this slows things by about two or three weeks I will be fine as the other round that I have that is flowering now still has another 4 to 5 weeks left. LST is hard at this size. I am working to keep new growth as parallel to the ground as I can, but its a delicate battle. Without further ado here are the girls with their new hair cuts.

I forgot to take a picture of the clones. They look worse by the day. I haven't given up yet but it is pretty unlikely either is going to make it.

 

[MaineGreenery]

Being unfamiliar ground, topping these plants has been a tense process. I am both excited about using this new training method and scared of doing something wrong and losing the plants to a mistake. So far so good. I watered and fed the girls yesterday. I stuck with ff 1/4 strength although I tried to dial in the ph of the solution to 6.5 using my test kit. It's not digital though and I am not that confident with the results although it can't be worse than if I made no attempt to adjust the ph. I will be borrowing a digital meter this week and doing a better job next time.

Red is still my star.

She has now been topped two times and all but the newest fan leaves have been removed. She is starting to look like the plants I see in the tutorials online. I'm so proud of her! I checked my journal and she was first topped about 10-days ago so I am thinking this mainlining will end up putting the schedule back by about 2.5 weeks. That is significant but I think will be worth it consider the size constraints I have in my grow and the improved yield I am anticipating.

The other two are less far along.

They have also been topped twice but I have left on the older fans still for more growth energy and I have not been able to begin LST on the newest nodes because of their size. I think that either today or tomorrow I will begin LST on these new nodes and then cut the older fans the following day. That schedule seems to be working, giving the plants enough energy to invest in the newer nodes.

That is about it. The clones I am playing with are still not good. I trimmed the larger fans off of them as they had become extremely pale due to lack of nutes and had started dying. The remaining growth actually looks good but I still don't see any roots on the outer edge of the pellet and am very close to tossing the whole thing.

So I am having an issue uploading photos right now. Until I can figure that out this post will be picless and you will have to use your imagination to see what I am referencing. I will get pics up as soon as I can!

 

[MaineGreenery]

Here are some added pics

Being unfamiliar ground, topping these plants has been a tense process. I am both excited about using this new training method and scared of doing something wrong and losing the plants to a mistake. So far so good. I watered and fed the girls yesterday. I stuck with ff 1/4 strength although I tried to dial in the ph of the solution to 6.5 using my test kit. It's not digital though and I am not that confident with the results although it can't be worse than if I made no attempt to adjust the ph. I will be borrowing a digital meter this week and doing a better job next time.

Red is still my star.

She has now been topped two times and all but the newest fan leaves have been removed. She is starting to look like the plants I see in the tutorials online. I'm so proud of her! I checked my journal and she was first topped about 10-days ago so I am thinking this mainlining will end up putting the schedule back by about 2.5 weeks. That is significant but I think will be worth it consider the size constraints I have in my grow and the improved yield I am anticipating.

The other two are less far along.

They have also been topped twice but I have left on the older fans still for more growth energy and I have not been able to begin LST on the newest nodes because of their size. I think that either today or tomorrow I will begin LST on these new nodes and then cut the older fans the following day. That schedule seems to be working, giving the plants enough energy to invest in the newer nodes.

That is about it. The clones I am playing with are still not good. I trimmed the larger fans off of them as they had become extremely pale due to lack of nutes and had started dying. The remaining growth actually looks good but I still don't see any roots on the outer edge of the pellet and am very close to tossing the whole thing.

So I am having an issue uploading photos right now. Until I can figure that out this post will be picless and you will have to use your imagination to see what I am referencing. I will get pics up as soon as I can!

 

[MaineGreenery]

Went for the final topping on red today.

I wanted to wait a node or two before topping on this one; I made it to the second node. I also cut all but the newest fan leaves and I left on the first nodes for now. The second ones are really small and the first nodes are a great Plan B for now. I am psyched, the plant is starting to get closer to the finish form. I will cut the other two in the next couple days and once the second nodes on red are a little bigger I will cut the first nodes too.

Also, one of the clones made it! I transferred it to a solo cup yesterday and am still deciding what to do with it. The second clone is still on the ropes however since the first one made it I am optimistic now the second may as well (even though I have no place to put either).