Who defoliates during flower?

[DirtyDantheman]

Does defoliation really help with fattening up the buds????
This is my first outdoor grow in many moons and to top it off……. It’s my first totally organic grow ever.
This particular strain (jelly breath) isn’t supposed to ripen outdoors until the end of October so I’ve got roughly 4-5 weeks to go.
I highly doubt the weather is gonna hold out that long here in western NY.
Will defoliation help to ripen the buds faster or will it actually slow things down because of stress?
The girl seems to be totally root bound in the 10 gallon pot with the roots coming up through the top of the soil, so I keep trying to top dress with more potting soil to keep from stressing the roots.
I’m just curious how many people defoliate and what their opinions are on effects……….
I’ve done it in the past with indoor grows and I feel it really helps improve overall bud size.
Not sure what will happen outdoors though…….

 

[Regrowth]

The only things I'm aware of that may speed up harvest time slightly are under watering and light deprivation.
Plants that are droughted throughout flower seem to finish faster but usually at the cost of yield.
And a trick amongst sativa growers is to increase the hours of darkness to speed up flowering times.

If you're defoliating at this stage it should just be for added airflow to reduce mold risks.
I did plenty this summer. I'm hoping it might help my plants dry faster and lower the humidity.

edit:
Usually stuff below the canopy that doesn't get enough light or airflow gets removed -
Usually prior to bloom but sometimes around day 21 as well.
When doing the latter it's my opinion that it's just sacrificing yield for convenience because
trimming and curing small immature buds is a pain and is a poor representation of the potential quality. lol
Sometimes actively through veg I'll strip branches to keep internodes or bud sites from forming.
I think when done at the right time defoliation is great and you're directing energy into new growth. Cheers.

 

[SmokingWings]

Does defoliation really help with fattening up the buds????

I don't think so. The way I see it, the hormones and sucrose/sugars that the plant is producing for bud development is sent to the flowers and not the leaves. So chopping off a bunch of leaves will not help the flower development. Early in the vegetative stage it is a different story. Cutting off the leaves then directs leaf growth hormones, etc to the growing tips.

If you do not keep those little buds that are showing near the bottom of the plant at the moment then now might be a good time to remove them. Theory being that what the plant is sending to those buds will then be sent to the remaining ones.

As for the fan leaves I tend to leave as many as possible on since they are the remaining storage. Many of the nutrients that the plant needs for the ripening buds can be pulled from storage in the leaves.

As long as the leaf is green and getting some nitrogen it is still going through with photosynthesis. When the leaves have turned a complete yellow or brown they have returned all that they have to the plant system and even photosynthesis is done with.

When it is breezy out check to the plant to see what leaves are moving during. If the lower leaves are moving in the wind then no point in cutting them off since the air flow is already decent to good.

 

[nivek]

The leaves are solar panels. Nuff said

 

[DirtyDantheman]

Thanks for the input everyone……..
I just went through and took a few leaves that were discolored and edge burnt.
Im just gonna cross my fingers and hope the weather holds out for another month.
I think the colder nights we’ve been having (50’s) is gonna signal that she needs to get her job done asap.
The cooler temps have definitely started to pull some purple out of her which is pretty cool to see………

 

[SmokingWings]

I just went through and took a few leaves that were discolored and edge burnt.

Keep in mind that the plant will be taking nutrients it needs from the leaves. The plant will continue to take these nutrients until there is nothing left. Often what happens is if the leaf is removed the plant just goes to the next one and starts over which is why it is recommended to leave them on until they start to fall off by themselves.

As @nivek mentions those leaves are also the solar panels where photosynthesis is happening and providing the building blocks for the sucrose/sugars that the plant uses.

 

[Azimuth]

The cooler temps have definitely started to pull some purple out of her which is pretty cool to see………

Maybe but that's because the plant is having trouble taking up P. Some indoor growers deliberately cool their room in late flower to get the pretty colors but, since it's a sign of a deficiency, I don't see the point.

It's not always P related as some plants naturally have a bit of purple in them, but if it's associated with temp, then, yeah, it's an issue with P.

 

[DirtyDantheman]

Keep in mind that the plant will be taking nutrients it needs from the leaves. The plant will continue to take these nutrients until there is nothing left. Often what happens is if the leaf is removed the plant just goes to the next one and starts over which is why it is recommended to leave them on until they start to fall off by themselves.

As @nivek mentions those leaves are also the solar panels where photosynthesis is happening and providing the building blocks for the sucrose/sugars that the plant uses.

Do the

Maybe but that's because the plant is having trouble taking up P. Some indoor growers deliberately cool their room in late flower to get the pretty colors but, since it's a sign of a deficiency, I don't see the point.

It's not always P related as some plants naturally have a bit of purple in them, but if it's associated with temp, then, yeah, it's an issue with P.

At this point I’ve done all I can do…….
It’s up to Mother Nature to take over now.
I’m happy with the progress so far.
Thanks to everyone who has leant an ear on advice and shared wisdom!

 

[Regrowth]

Chlorophyll is reduced and because of it the anthocyanin production prevails.
I don't really see it as a deficiency. Here's a bucket of purple drank from last summer.
Good stuff. Kind of tastes like water and weed. Go figure...

 

[HazyCrazy]

I do trim the large sun leaves to focus the plant growth on the buds, specially when they start fading or turning yellow.

 

[Azimuth]

I do trim the large sun leaves to focus the plant growth on the buds, specially when they start fading or turning yellow.

Is there actual science behind this practice though? Plants can translocate resources quite readily and do so regularly. In nature the big fan leaves stay on to power the overall plant.

 

[HazyCrazy]

Just experience and what has worked for me in the past.

 

[bluter]

Here's a bucket of purple drank from last summer.
Good stuff. Kind of tastes like water and weed. Go figure...

first, wth is going on here ? link or post recipe pls ..
i see you there cdn tire bucket ..

it's been a long time since i had anything outdoor, but i only ever removed some smaller interior and lower branching on an outdoor only plant. i never went after the fans only.

i defol and do more management on indoor grows, but even then it's only at a few set intervals during the grow.

 

[DirtyDantheman]

Lots of purple coming through in these girls……… but the buds still aren’t swelling up.
This particular strain isn’t supposed to add weight to the buds until the last couple weeks of flower.
Looks like I’m gonna have to set my closet back up because I’m only 5 weeks into flower and these girls need 8-9 weeks.

 

[Regrowth]

first, wth is going on here ? link or post recipe pls ..
i see you there cdn tire bucket ..


it's been a long time since i had anything outdoor, but i only ever removed some smaller interior and lower branching on an outdoor only plant. i never went after the fans only.

i defol and do more management on indoor grows, but even then it's only at a few set intervals during the grow.

Just a run of bubble hash from last summer but because anthocyanins are water soluble the water ends up fairly dark.

I haven't shared many pictures of my outdoor grow this summer but I've defoliated them all quite heavily.
I removed a lot of the lowers to allow airflow through the canopy and removed most fan leaves that pointed inwards.
They've held up well so far and I like to think the defoliation has helped a bit. I've lost maybe a joint worth of buds so far.

 

[jimiding]

As forgetting bigger buds, I generally defoliate about half way up the plant, not only leaves but also tiny buds. I also remove any small branches underneath or in the middle if they are obviously not getting enough light. The top buds are always the biggest and removing all the underneath growth lets the plant send all of it's production energy to the top. I generally don't remove leaves (or any thing) from the top half as they need the leaves for energy production. I typically do this pruning technique about 2-3 weeks after the first flowers start showing, and again after another 3 weeks or so. My buds are definitely bigger than before, and at harvest, my bud trimming time is reduced with bigger yield. I haven't done any outside grows for several years and was not aware of this technique at the time.

 

[SmokingWings]

Is there actual science behind this practice though? Plants can translocate resources quite readily and do so regularly. In nature the big fan leaves stay on to power the overall plant.

That might be why some growers say that they will tuck the larger fan leaves out of the way instead of cutting them off. That way the larger fan leaves are still there to catch some light for photosynthesis and be available for any translocation of available sucrose, hormones and/or nutrients.

As far as the "science behind the practice" aspect it is a case of yes there is a lot of anecdotal science and I figure it goes back to tomato gardening. Yes, the biggest gardening group promoting the removal of leaves as a way to get more light to the rest of the leaves and the harvest are home gardeners of tomatoes. They post in their gardening blogs to remove extra leaves to get the sunlight to shine on the tomato fruits that are often still green. I would not be surprised if the idea behind removing some or a lot of the fan leaves on Cannabis plants is from home growers who related their tomato growing to their Cannabis growing years ago.

Yet, some of these same tomato gardeners are the same ones who want to keep the green tomatoes from getting sun scald? That is the problem where the side of the tomato that is facing the sun develops those white or pale yellow blister looking spots. I did come across a web page from Cornell University, Cooperative Extension Service that recommends that the leaves be left as a protection from direct sun and/or heat being on the fruit.

https://cvp.cce.cornell.edu/submission.php?id=91

Back to our Marijuana plants. We often come across problems with the top leaves and growing tips having canoeing, burned leaves, wilting in the area. The number one suggestion seems to be to raise the lights to reduce or eliminate the problem. Then when flowering starts we are supposed to cut all those excess leaves away from the buds.

 

[bluter]

Just a run of bubble hash from last summer but because anthocyanins are water soluble the water ends up fairly dark.

was thinking you were making cannabis infused beverages lol