300W LED Shootout: 12/12 From Seed - Featuring Super Silver Haze

[Jozo-sha]

Okay, so we're all pretty much in the consensus that the soil, as I'm using it right out of the bag is too hot for some/most? seedlings. The composition, as I provided it to BPN, is:

Outdoor Plant Mix 301
This potting soil is derived from key ingredients like Dairy Doo, Poultry Compost, Worm Castings, which are biological growth enhancers. Also Sphagnum Peat, Coconut Coir, DoubleGround Bark, Paramagnetic Rock, HiCal Lime, Gypsum, Vermiculite, and Perlite, all added to give plants a strong and healthy start.

So, if it's too hot, what else would I cut it with? It's very loamy/spongy already, and I can't imagine adding anymore non-organics to it; maybe start my seeds in Light Warrior/FFOF or something and transplant?
I feel I owe it to our sponsor, GrowGSL to give his light a proper and fair test, and seeing my issues, I have decided to repeat this side-by-side, and will probably just make it as a continuation of this journal.

I have bowed out of the Iron Chef Challenge. Thanks again, BPN, for looking at things and solidifying the opinion that the soil was just too damned hot for the SSH.

Thanks to all of you, I'll get this figured out and make it right for all.


- JZ

 

[Propa Gator]

I like this soil mix, as its all organic, local and is cheaper than FFOF or Roots - maybe cut it with more coco coir?

So, if it's too hot, what else would I cut it with? It's very loamy/spongy already, and I can't imagine adding anymore non-organics to it

Coco coir mixes well with any soil in any proportion. My fave is 100%
I don't worry about what's in there already because I put it there, so I know.

 

[Blue Planet Nutrients]

I just had a thought. What if you started the seedlings in one of those biodegradeable pots, you know the ones with the peat type material surrounding it. Something that is large enough that you can fill with a less hot soil and give your plants about 3 weeks before they really start to poke their roots out and searxh for more nutes. Plant into your larger pots containing the hot stuff after they are about a week old. Then the roots will develop in the less hot soil and by the time they poke out of the biodegradeable pots, they plants will be larger and can handle more nutes. Just a thought.

 

[SteveHman]

I have bowed out of the Iron Chef Challenge.

I think it was the fear of hydro that overcame you. You'll have to battle the winner of the match to redeem yourself. Although it looks like it may be DocBuds taking over your spot. Organics and HPS--Iron Chef Old School!

Get your plants healthy and give Donnie a good comparison grow. There will be time to battle later.

 

[Magic beans]

Hey JZ!

Im with BPN. My first 2 soil grows i had the same exact thing. Itgets confusing trying to diagnose deficiencies. Then you end up with burns bcyou didnt know what the &@!? Was happening in your soil. Some of the plants look like theyre doing great. Some of your ladies got seriously burnt, at least thats what it looks like to me. Well i hope you can tame the beast and we can see some great nuggets of joy at the end of this one

 

[Blue Planet Nutrients]

Another thought...your soil mix has lime and gypsum which have lots of calcium. I dont think you need calmag. If you see a magnesium deficiency, which usually takes about a month into the plants life, add some epsom salts mixed with water. Your soil most likely has plenty of mg for now so you prolly dont need the calmag. Mg deficiency is very easy to spot and is quickly corrected with epsom salts

 

[GreenHornet]

Was believe that GSL will answer mine question( Btw Jozo-sha i want ask U how high u got gsl unit at plants ? i mean is 50 cm got for veg?? Thanks 4 ur help and any tips u Can give me about growing with led's

 

[Jozo-sha]

Onward through the fog!

Coco coir mixes well with any soil in any proportion. My fave is 100%
I don't worry about what's in there already because I put it there, so I know.

I think some strains also handle hotter mixes than others, in this case, the SSH got cooked, but the PE baby girl is *loving* it. I suppose discretion is the better part of valor, so maybe starting them in coco/soil, then transplanting to straight soil mix is the way to go, regardless of the 'heartiness' of a given strain to the soil I have. Thanks again PG, for your valued input.

I just had a thought. What if you started the seedlings in one of those biodegradeable pots, you know the ones with the peat type material surrounding it. Something that is large enough that you can fill with a less hot soil and give your plants about 3 weeks before they really start to poke their roots out and searxh for more nutes. Plant into your larger pots containing the hot stuff after they are about a week old. Then the roots will develop in the less hot soil and by the time they poke out of the biodegradeable pots, they plants will be larger and can handle more nutes. Just a thought.

That's what all the SSH beans started in...the UA were all right into soil...

Another thought...your soil mix has lime and gypsum which have lots of calcium. I dont think you need calmag. If you see a magnesium deficiency, which usually takes about a month into the plants life, add some epsom salts mixed with water. Your soil most likely has plenty of mg for now so you prolly dont need the calmag. Mg deficiency is very easy to spot and is quickly corrected with epsom salts

Thanks you so much again. You're the reason the sponsors here are so valued!

I think it was the fear of hydro that overcame you. You'll have to battle the winner of the match to redeem yourself. Although it looks like it may be DocBuds taking over your spot. Organics and HPS--Iron Chef Old School!
Get your plants healthy and give Donnie a good comparison grow. There will be time to battle later.

Ffffsss. Whatever. Let me get this dialed in and I'll spank your So. Cal. butt. Show you how us LIONS FANS grow meds! But yeah, Donnie deserves a fair shot; that's why I really bailed. I hope 420 is proud of me

Hey JZ!

Im with BPN. My first 2 soil grows i had the same exact thing. Itgets confusing trying to diagnose deficiencies. Then you end up with burns bcyou didnt know what the &@!? Was happening in your soil. Some of the plants look like theyre doing great. Some of your ladies got seriously burnt, at least thats what it looks like to me. Well i hope you can tame the beast and we can see some great nuggets of joy at the end of this one

Yeah, who'd expect soil to be that hot? Of course, now that I think about it, it's called 'Outdoor Mix', which might imply that you'd start seedlings in a cold frame or inside, then transplant into that stuff outdoors after the last frost - probably time for nice root development and a plant's thirst for nutrients to develop.

Was believe that GSL will answer mine question( Btw Jozo-sha i want ask U how high u got gsl unit at plants ? i mean is 50 cm got for veg?? Thanks 4 ur help and any tips u Can give me about growing with led's

I started with the light about 70cm above the seedlings, now at about 45cm after they're starting to flower.

So....I don't even know what day I'm into this thing (seems to be yet another combination learning experience/trainwreck this year - par for the course), but now that some of the plants are getting a bit bigger, they're greening up somewhat. That tallest and first flowering SSH looks like a modern fashion model, just a skeleton and some girl bits to look at; nothing of substance..

I took 4 cuts from the healthiest and sexiest looking Chocolope cut I had in the 2'x2' tent, then promptly moved all of them into the tent under the 300's, just randomly placed under side A and Side B, leaving the new cuts in rapid rooters under a humidity dome. Just decided that win, lose or draw, by golly I was going to harvest at least enough meds for me and my patient!

My roommate turned me on to some wonderfully fat and striped beans, probably 20 of them, labeled "Blueberry x Nightmare", and he reported the smoke was mind-blowing. I'm guessing the "Nightmare" refers to "Nigerian Nightmare" and naturally the "Blueberry" could be anyone's skewed interpretation of the DJ Short variety, or some mutant indica..in any event, I liked the sound of the cross, and after the Chocolope cuts grow up and I pick a mom, I'll be trying to time the sprouting of the Blue Nightmare beans with the chop of what's in the tent currently.

Hopefully, I'll not screw this next go round up so bad. It's all a learning experience, and I am sooooo humbled right now.


- JZ

 

[Vapedogg223]

Re: Onward through the fog!

I think some strains also handle hotter mixes than others, in this case, the SSH got cooked, but the PE baby girl is *loving* it. I suppose discretion is the better part of valor, so maybe starting them in coco/soil, then transplanting to straight soil mix is the way to go, regardless of the 'heartiness' of a given strain to the soil I have. Thanks again PG, for your valued input.

Or treat it like Subcool's Super Soil...put it in the bottom half or two thirds of the pot for the plant to use as it gets bigger.

Ffffsss. Whatever. Let me get this dialed in and I'll spank your So. Cal. butt. Show you how us LIONS FANS grow meds! But yeah, Donnie deserves a fair shot; that's why I really bailed. I hope 420 is proud of me

That's right bro! You don't have to take that!

Yeah, who'd expect soil to be that hot? Of course, now that I think about it, it's called 'Outdoor Mix', which might imply that you'd start seedlings in a cold frame or inside, then transplant into that stuff outdoors after the last frost - probably time for nice root development and a plant's thirst for nutrients to develop.

Hmmm... Outdoor mixes are usually heavier (so the pots won't blow over as easy), and often designed to retain more moisture.

Hopefully, I'll not screw this next go round up so bad. It's all a learning experience, and I am sooooo humbled right now.


- JZ

No worries brother! What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger!

 

[Xlr8]

Hi Jozo -

I just wanted to offer some encouragement and support to one of the nicest guys on the site here, and someone I admire. I also admire you for doing the right thing by the sponsor, but don't be too hard on yourself.

Shit happens brotha! You'll get your dauber back up. We've all been there whether growing or whatever. You're a great guy and a great grower who had a set-back - don't be too humbled. You just had an experience that will eventually shape you into a better grower with greater knowledge in the future.

Just keep on rockin' my friend!

"I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward". Thomas Edison

 

[Mr. Krip]

Jozo, have you considered trying hempy? It's kinda halfway between soil & hydro, but like hydro, it allows you to control exactly what your plants are getting for nutes. Plus, it's pretty low maintenance and you can't overwater!

 

[Jozo-sha]

Hi Jozo -

I just wanted to offer some encouragement and support to one of the nicest guys on the site here, and someone I admire. I also admire you for doing the right thing by the sponsor, but don't be too hard on yourself.

Shit happens brotha! You'll get your dauber back up. We've all been there whether growing or whatever. You're a great guy and a great grower who had a set-back - don't be too humbled. You just had an experience that will eventually shape you into a better grower with greater knowledge in the future.

Just keep on rockin' my friend!

"I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward". Thomas Edison

Jozo, have you considered trying hempy? It's kinda halfway between soil & hydro, but like hydro, it allows you to control exactly what your plants are getting for nutes. Plus, it's pretty low maintenance and you can't overwater!

My last attempt at hempy was a pure disaster - I still have 9 or 10 three gallon buckets with holes in the sides I'm determined to learn this soil thing before panicking and running back to DWC buckets! Although I look at those little self-contained ebb/flow systems and the gears start running.

I do think that unless I abandon 12/12 from seed, the larger Air Pots I have are overkill - I think vegging in the 3 gallon ones would make for a *huge* plant, maybe I just have more experimentation to do. Here's a few pics:

PE Female, like I said, right from seed into the same mix, and she loves it..

Odd colored leaf on one of my chocolope cuts:

Premature bud porn:

Electric purple love:

Pulled two males (runts too, so that worked out well), and the spindly female SSH. She had NO green leaves anymore. Repotted a couple of the cuts that were totally root bound, but healthy. The cuts I made the other day are all cozy, humid and happy too.

Thanks all of you for your support. I continue to learn and hope the knowledge I gain can be passed on sometime.


- JZ

 

[OG13]

Jozo, have you considered trying hempy? It's kinda halfway between soil & hydro, but like hydro, it allows you to control exactly what your plants are getting for nutes. Plus, it's pretty low maintenance and you can't overwater!

As a long time soil grower, I like to stay up to date and try new things.....I did some hempys outdoors this summer in the veg garden. Tried Perlite/vermiculite(75/25) and Perlite/Coco (50/50). Used OC+ for nutes. Compared quite favorably to stuff grown in the ground (use compost and Espoma products). The tomato hempy is 6 feet tall in a 12 liter bucket and still making tomatoes. Don't give up on soil, you just went too hot for the strain.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Jozo, you're probably right about those 5 gallons being overkill. I believe GG7 just started using airpots and mentioned that the 3 gallon pot was ideal for indoors and the 5 gallon should be used for outdoor plants. This is primarily because the air pots allow for a better developed root structure, so you can (supposedly) grow a bigger plant in a smaller container.

I do agree with OG in that I'm not suggesting you give up on soil, was just trying to offer an alternative that may provide an easier start. I've found it's easier to work on honing growing skill when you already have a nice stash on-hand, but when you're low on meds, the objective changes from "learning to grow" to "let's just harvest something"!

 

[MissBud]

Everything looks great Jozo-sha! Those bud shots look incredible

 

[Twelve12]

Hope your plants makes it through. I found that using coco coir with airpot works wonders if hempy is something you are not comfortable with, yet.

 

[GreneLeaf]

I've heard that the air pots give bugs a hundred way to get into the soil, I've gone with the 4 gal. square buckets..they also work well for tight spaces...I also agree with the 5 gallon being a good out side bucket. I hope you plants do well too...good luck.

 

[Vapedogg223]

I've heard that the air pots give bugs a hundred way to get into the soil, I've gone with the 4 gal. square buckets..they also work well for tight spaces...I also agree with the 5 gallon being a good out side bucket. I hope you plants do well too...good luck.

Don't believe it brother! Probably someone using Roots Organic looking for someone to blame for the fungus gnats!

Air-Pots are amazing. I had 2 1/2 foot tall plants growing in .3 gallon air-cells (they're about 4" in diameter) just to see if I could do it... The only problem with my experiment is I had to water 3 times a day!

I also grew plants 5 feet high in 3.4 gallon airpots...they had the most beautiful root system. I'm convinced for most indoor grows a 1-2 gallon Air-Pot is all you need.

I just uploaded 3 pics of some smaller (about 1.5' tall) plants in the smallest Air-Pots, 2 of the pics are of the bottom of a pot, so you can see the root air-pruning in action. so if you are curious take a look in my gallery.

 

[somedude247]

Ive tried just about every form of hydro, soil-less and pre-mixed soil over the last few years and have recently been enlightened on making my own Super Soil mix. If I got it right, I shouldnt have to worry about any deficiencies. Im prefer soil anymore. Hydro grows bigger, but too much can go wrong and properly grown Organic is actually "Healthier" to smoke. The plant may not care where it gets its nutes, but the finished product contains what it was grown with, even with a good flush. I also just finished out my first grow with "Geopots"- just like smart pots. And a few "Dirt Bags". Love them! Only problem is runoff if you add to much water at once. I used 3 gal and 2 gal and my plants, being autos, didnt even fill out the container with roots. But I didnt add any bene's to a soil-less mix. Ill be trying out my first batch of Super Soil in a few weeks when the girls are ready.

 

[sachmo]

hello, I'm new here, my name is dale. i wanted to thank you jozo for your work and for this journal which i found through a google search for "300w led grow journal". i jumped in b/c i'm into my first grow with a cree 300watter.
i read this journal from the start and have learned sooooo much, i need to thank you and all the other commenters for the knowledge i have received and hope to continue to receive here.

its a brave new world since my last grow around 1987 in vermont (very hazy memories of great times!) i jumped back in recently and without much research jumped in on led's because of space/heat restrictions. im in soil from bagseed in a tent and 3 weeks in i have to say im really really happy with how things are going the babies are starting to show sex,(i'm not experienced enough to really tell yet, and blooming is gonna start monday!

i just wish back in the day we had a resources like the internet, this site and all the fine fellows and fems who have taken the time to drop the knowledge on me here.

keeping the faith and soaking up the knowlege!

thanks all you KIND people!

there are no wrong steps on your path!