Colorado High - Soilless - LED/CFL - Dutch Dope - 2014

[David Bowman]

As much as I think that those ratchet rope light hangers are a neat solution to the adjustable height lighting problem, IMHO there are several drawbacks to these devices. First of all, when the lights are hung low, they get in the way of watering and other maintenance tasks as well as how close water and hot lights are coming to each other. Secondly, constantly adjusting the lights and ensuring that they're level is, for the want of a better term, a PITA. Thirdly, the slightest touch sends the lights swinging around the tent. I know that this isn't a big enough issue all by itself but in conjunction with the other two, I figured there had to be a better way that didn't have all these drawbacks.

I implemented the first half of this solution when I flipped to flowering during my last grow. I removed the ratchet rope hangers and hung the LEDs directly from the grow box ceiling rails. There is no more swinging at the slightest touch. There is no more adjusting/leveling as the lights are perfectly level 5" from the ceiling of the grow box, permanently. Since the LEDs are so high up they are out of the way of watering and other tasks, not to mention my head. Here is what this setup looks like -

What I did not do is implement the other half of this solution which is moving the drip tray up/down to maintain the optimum distance from canopy to LEDs. I made a conscious decision to not do anything to see what, if any, effect it had on my harvest. What I learned was that the lights needed to be closer to the canopy and maintain, on average, a 15"-20" distance from the LEDs. Further away when they are babies and potentially closer as they mature and approach harvest.

I searched for adjustable tables but the lowest height they could go was 18"-20" and I needed full adjustability. When my gaze fell on my stack of soft drink 12-packs, which where piled 10 high, a moment of blissful serendipity occurred. Each 5" high 12-pack, stacked in the manner shown below, should be able to support their weight and the weight of the drip tray, plants, pots and medium. As the grow progresses and increases it weight, 12-packs will be removed to lower the drip tray height by 5" at a time and thereby reducing any risk associated with this DIY method of adjusting plant height.

Here is the lower half of the grow box with the drip tray ~20" above the grow box floor -

Here is the upper half of the grow box showing the raised drip tray in relation to the LEDs -

My one main concern is a 12-pack blow out, but of the literally hundreds of 12-packs I've purchased only one or two have failed sending their contents out onto the floor and that was caused by improperly glued flaps which are easily sorted with a quick inspection. I inspected each 12-pack to make sure it was in good shape and I feel that I have taken the appropriate precautions implementing this method. As with everything, time will tell.

 

[David Bowman]

Day 11 since the start of germination and in addition to the one seed that failed to pop, I lost one of the sprouts to damping off after I accidentally snapped off the majority of its tap root. Another sprout was falling over due to a thin stem, also damaging its tap root, while a fourth was stagnating in the Rapid Rooter. The remaining two sprouts have managed to make it to the seedling stage without any issues and already have roots coming out of their RRs. I transplanted these four remaining seedlings into small temporary pots to help them get established before they are transplanted into their final homes.

Overhead shot of the seedlings on day 11 since the start of germination -

Profile shot of the seedlings on day 11 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the seedling in the back row, on the left on day 11 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the seedling in the back row, on the right on day 11 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the seedling in the front row, on the left on day 11 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the seedling in the front row, on the right on day 11 since the start of germination -

Their environment remains stable and in the desired temperature and RH ranges. They are still only receiving de-chlorinated tap water until they have become more established and are in actual need of some nourishment.

 

[yuyo]

and the beat goes on...

 

[Pittbull72]

12 packs??? ....but i get laughed at for using coffee cans?

 

[David Bowman]

Ironically, what got me thinking about using 12-packs was when I was contemplating ordering an adjustable height table, the delivery time with free shipping was 1-3 weeks out. I knew I needed something sooner to hold me over and I started looking around my office for something I could use until I got the table. When I saw the 12-packs stacked 10 high next to the refrigerator, I thought those'll work and then made the next logical step and decided not to order the table, saving me $35 for something that really didn't meet my needs anyway. I'm sure that somewhere, someone is laughing at me!

 

[David Bowman]

Day 21 since the start of germination and these kids sure are taking their sweet time getting going. The two kids in the back row are progressing well, the kid in the front row on the left is also doing well even if it does look deformed, more than likely due to the previous damage to its tap root, and the kid in the front row on the right is barely making any progress and will likely not make it to maturity although I've not given up on it yet. Until today, they've only received de-chlorinated tap water. Thinking that they might be in need of some nourishment I fed each kid a nutrient solution comprised of SNS 604A, at 1 Tbsp/gallon, and Cal-Mag Plus, at ~1 tsp/gallon. We'll see if that has any impact on their development over the next few days or so.

Overhead group shot of the kids on day 21 since the start of germinating -

Single shot of the kid in the back row, on the left on day 21 since the start of germinating -

Single shot of the kid in the back row, on the right on day 21 since the start of germinating -

Single shot of the kid in the front row, on the left on day 21 since the start of germinating -

Single shot of the kid in the front row, on the right on day 21 since the start of germinating -

I'm still waiting for them to develop some more before I place them into their final homes. I'm hoping that they will take off and start profusely vegetating soon. I hope all is well with everyone!

 

[theengineer]

they sure are taking their time, but they're not autos, so I guess you've got an arbitrary veg window to work with them; hope they start doing something soon

 

[David Bowman]

they sure are taking their time, but they're not autos, so I guess you've got an arbitrary veg window to work with them; hope they start doing something soon

Me too! In an effort to help them along, I've raised the drip tray another 5" so that the kids are now ~22" away from the LEDs.

 

[theengineer]

I have a Cotton Candy I just popped under the P450, but it is about 12“ under it, and doesn't seem to be minding it at all; it is a 12/12 from seed plant, too, less than week old atm, so maybe you could get them even closer?

 

[yuyo]

they do look like they want some room
are you using the cfl yet or just the led?
keep up the good works
take care and good luck

 

[David Bowman]

Well, in just one day, the back row kids have begun to take off a little bit, hard to say if it's the nutrients or LED to canopy distance, probably a little of both, but they are starting to get into the swing of things. When they get into their final homes they will be even closer to the LEDs so we'll see how that goes. I am using all of the available light I have for vegetating including 12,800 lumens/184 watts @ 5000K CFL sidelighting in addition to the LED canopy lighting.

 

[theengineer]

it has to be proximity; I veg under a 25w cfl that is kept 1 inch above the plant, like this;

and by day 13/14 I consistently have something that resembles this;

and by day 21, when I flip them, they look like this [these are actually day 19]

so I can only suggest that the closer they are to the CFLs during veg, the better - I also use Earth Juice nutes in low doses from day one

 

[David Bowman]

Well, the CFLs I employ are strictly for sidelighting and it is difficult to get them that close to the kids, they mostly provide supplemental lighting for the grow box. When I employed CFL canopy lighting, I kept the plants within a couple of inches of the CFL canopy lighting through the entire grow. I'm still learning how to effectively grow with LEDs and I've found that getting the distance from the canopy to the LEDs to be the most critical and crucial aspect of their use. Since this is a reflector LED I cannot get the canopy too close or else they will not receive the full spectrum from the LEDs, I think that it's something around 8"-12" or so before the lights from the individual diodes have blended together enough to provide the full intended spectrum. My target range during the majority of the grow is 15"-20", but this early stage is a little tricky since I don't want to irradiate or otherwise damage these young and tender kids while they are still establishing themselves within the grow environment. I'm proceeding cautiously in order to minimize any issues while I get this down. Thanks for all the info theengineer!

 

[theengineer]

I get you with the LEDs - I am new to them, too, and when I bought the P450, I thought it wasn't enough and bought another P300 - for a 2.5 x 2.5 grow space lol, and now that the 12/12 tent is running on just the P450, it's exploding with growth, so I clearly didn't need the P300, but that is very different from wanting the P300

 

[theengineer]

and with my first LED, I put it an inch above the plant and kinda bleached it, it was almost transparent after a few days - LED n00bery ftw

 

[David Bowman]

and with my first LED, I put it an inch above the plant and kinda bleached it, it was almost transparent after a few days - LED n00bery ftw

Yeah, same with me, LED newbie only I'm erring on the side of caution. We'll both get there with more time and experience!

 

[theengineer]

they are the future, there is no denying that, plus, the colour the lights make the room is really, really cool

 

[David Bowman]

they are the future, there is no denying that, plus, the colour the lights make the room is really, really cool

Agreed. Check these out from my last grow -

All "effects" created by just the LED canopy light interacting with the plants.

 

[theengineer]

after a bowl, or four, I get lost sitting looking at the lighting effects; those above are epic... I can't wait for lights on now

 

[David Bowman]

Day 25 since the start of germination and while three kids are still around, the fourth one never really got out of the early seedling stage for some reason and failed to thrive. I have transplanted the three remaining kids into 3 gallon pots which will be their final homes for this grow. In addition to the Generic Soilless Mix, I added and thoroughly mixed in Growology Step 1 and Dolomite Lime, both at 1 Tbsp/gallon, and thoroughly moistened the medium with plain tap water prior to transplantation. Starting early with the Cal-Mag Plus seems to have eliminated any sign of deficiencies other than N-deficiency, which is beginning to show on a few of the lower leaves. I expect that to be short lived once they receive their first full feeding on their next watering.

Group shot of the kids on day 25 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the Back/Left (B/L) kid on day 25 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the Back/Right (B/R) kid on day 25 since the start of germination -

Single shot of the Front/Center (F/C) kid on day 25 since the start of germination -

Node spacing is extremely tight so the kids appear to be happy with the lighting so far. They are now ~18" from the LEDs and I'll let them grow up into the lights for a while before I lower the drip tray. My plan is to keep the canopy no further than 20" away from the LEDs and lower the drip tray when they are less than 15" away from the LEDs.

The F/C kid is still showing deformed leaves from the earlier tap root damage but appears to be doing fine otherwise. The root development and structure appears to be similar to the other two kids, but the plant development has definitely been affected. How this will affect its development is anyone's guess. My hope is now that they are in their final pots, they will quickly establish themselves and begin some serious vegetation. Based on previous grows, these kids should begin to show gender sometime around Thanksgiving and I want them to be as large and healthy as possible when that time comes.