FiveToMidnight's First Grow - Coco/Perlite - NL - MarsHydro 300W LED - 2015

[FiveToMidnight]

Fresh clean Aussie water here, best in the world... 20million in a continent, not in a town, lol.... Run water through a filter for dechlorination.... About the problems other growers have? I'd say it's cause your dealing with mainly new growers, all I can come up with... alot of the problems, I've said it before, but I don't see them... But I'm more inclined to think 5 is having n deficiencies more than water or light problems...
Skybound, yeah man, I said back a couple pages that I consider 600ppm a full strength regular feed, don't know where these 850 are coming from, lol... Look my girls been at 900 last two weeks, flipped two days ago, but that's a 60 veg, with extra 200w light added...

I think I will try and stick with the Distilled water for at least this grow as it is probably better being there are no additives in it like from the tap. However I think I will give the tap water a go on the next grow and see how it works. I see a lot of aussies using tap water with success but I'd like to try and avoid as many possible problems as I can.
I've been doing a lot of research on deficiencies and all the pics I see about N deficiencies look very similar if not identical to my girls, so I think you're right there.

I think you said a page or two back that 450ppm was a good measurement for the stage that I am at so I'm thinking I should aim for that range by mixing and then diluting as you suggested. Or would you have a better ppm range you think I should aim for?

 

[GrizzWald]

They'll feed on 600 no worries mate, not burning up with 850 they been having, but could be heading towards problems like skybound said... Continue what your doing water wise, it's what they all say around here. I've even gotten into a habit of recommending it cause of this site, not wanting to justify my own way. It's hard to know why shit works when educated people give you reasons why it doesn't, lol.. I did read when was first looking into coir, that distilled water has been stripped and doesn't offer the same as ro or clean tap water (sat out for 24 hours/dechlorinated)... I'll search for it...

 

[FiveToMidnight]

They'll feed on 600 no worries mate, not burning up with 850 they been having, but could be heading towards problems like skybound said... Continue what your doing water wise, it's what they all say around here. I've even gotten into a habit of recommending it cause of this site, not wanting to justify my own way. It's hard to know why shit works when educated people give you reasons why it doesn't, lol.. I did read when was first looking into coir, that distilled water has been stripped and doesn't offer the same as ro or clean tap water (sat out for 24 hours/dechlorinated)... I'll search for it...

ok cool, I'll put it to 600 this afternoon and go from there. The LED is making them dry out a lot quicker so I'm feeding daily at the moment.
I wish I was smarter so all of this made more sense but I'm finding the info on nutes and all that quite hard to grasp. That's why I'm so glad I have you guys here! lol

 

[Skybound]

I got my RO filter from an online aquarium store but after a little searching, I see that the going rate for one in the down under is ridiculously expensive. I paid 200 usd for mine, but the equivalent for you is nearly a grand, so start saving up brother! Also, I use a charcoal filter as a prefilter so my RO doesn't get overloaded and gunked up so fast. As OMU said, you're eventually gonna need to bite the bullet, especially if you get a larger spot to grow more plants. Lugging many jugs of water to and from your res on a weekly basis gets old very fast.

For growing in rockwool, I never exceed 600 ppm for veg and never exceed 1000 for bloom, but in many cases I keep it below 900 in late bloom. From week to week, I will raise ppm by 100 if there were no major problems the previous week. If there were problems, I treat accordingly and add the lost time to the end and thus extend my planned time tables at an inconvenience to myself. Your grow is very similar as there are certain things you want to be achieved before you switch to bloom. Slow and steady always wins this race.

 

[FiveToMidnight]

I got my RO filter from an online aquarium store but after a little searching, I see that the going rate for one in the down under is ridiculously expensive. I paid 200 usd for mine, but the equivalent for you is nearly a grand, so start saving up brother! Also, I use a charcoal filter as a prefilter so my RO doesn't get overloaded and gunked up so fast. As OMU said, you're eventually gonna need to bite the bullet, especially if you get a larger spot to grow more plants. Lugging many jugs of water to and from your res on a weekly basis gets old very fast.

For growing in rockwool, I never exceed 600 ppm for veg and never exceed 1000 for bloom, but in many cases I keep it below 900 in late bloom. From week to week, I will raise ppm by 100 if there were no major problems the previous week. If there were problems, I treat accordingly and add the lost time to the end and thus extend my planned time tables at an inconvenience to myself. Your grow is very similar as there are certain things you want to be achieved before you switch to bloom. Slow and steady always wins this race.

Yeah, like everything we get massively ripped off here. Retailers here constantly whinge about losing sales to online stores overseas but don't get that people aren't going to pay 3-6 times the price when shipping is often free on only a few dollars. Half the time you can't even find what you want in stores because they stock so little of everything, let alone if you're trying to get things slightly out of the norm for a project such as this, its almost impossible. Anyways, I finished my rant hahaha

To be honest, I'm not sure what I'd do if I were to use a bigger space in regards to water. I'd definitely have to find another place to get distilled water from or just go with filtered tap water and hope for the best. I don't have the room to set up RO kits or anything like that, would need a totally different house unfortunately. For now it will have to stay small

I'm about to feed them now and was going to aim for 600ppm as Grizzy suggested and using the extra 25% micro for the extra N as you suggested earlier. Unless you could advise something different?

 

[GrizzWald]

It'll just come to you one day.. It'll make sense... I'm stoned man, so excuse me but I'm going to babble on,lol... I've been a green thumb all my life. Was planting chilli , Apple cucumbers, tomatoes capsicums and strawberries, lol, in my own veggie patch from around 7-8... Once started smoking, 16, couple years later grew my first plant, that got us smashed but defiantly had another month and half to go, lol... But I couldn't tell you the chemical reasoning for anything, I'm a house painter, that's not me, but, and I do think we are all like this (maybe we're not) but you get a feel for your plants and what they want.. They talk to you, like tasting or hearing colours, plants communicate, if your willing to listen with your eyes or instincts.. What when & why...As Skybound said learn your nutes so you know what to give when, the why is interesting and helps manipulate, but the what & when are most important...

 

[FiveToMidnight]

It'll just come to you one day.. It'll make sense... I'm stoned man, so excuse me but I'm going to babble on,lol... I've been a green thumb all my life. Was planting chilli , Apple cucumbers, tomatoes capsicums and strawberries, lol, in my own veggie patch from around 7-8... Once started smoking, 16, couple years later grew my first plant, that got us smashed but defiantly had another month and half to go, lol... But I couldn't tell you the chemical reasoning for anything, I'm a house painter, that's not me, but, and I do think we are all like this (maybe we're not) but you get a feel for your plants and what they want.. They talk to you, like tasting or hearing colours, plants communicate, if your willing to listen with your eyes or instincts.. What when & why...As Skybound said learn your nutes so you know what to give when, the why is interesting and helps manipulate, but the what & when are most important...

Very good points there. I will keep trying to read up and understand, plus I will look through what is actually in each of the nutes and what they are used for so I can work things out a lot better.
Thanks for the great tips!

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Woke up today to see my girls looking a hell of a lot happier than the previous couple of days. Leaves are more erect and some of the yellow leaves are greening up a little. Looking like you guys were 100% right. Last nights feed at 600ppm with the extra 25% micro seems to have hit the spot

 

[Camo420Grow]

Glad to hear they are looking good 5, keep up the good work brother !

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Glad to hear they are looking good 5, keep up the good work brother !

Thanks mate! I'll post some pics this arvo when I get home so you can see their improvement

 

[McCdive]

Lot of good stuff lately and special kudos to Skybound for his post on this page about getting to know your nutes. +reps Dude!

None of those filters recently discussed will do anything to reduce PPMs of tap water. Might make it taste better but your plants don't have taste buds so that's not the issue. 90% or more of problems I see are water related with the rest some dirt issue that I don't know much about.

I only use RO or distilled water and in the last 14 years have never had the problems I see so many growers dealing with here. You guys are growing the most valuable crop in the world. Don't cheap out one one of the most valuable links in the chain that gets you the best crop. For us indoor growers electricity is most of the cost of growing. Make the best use of every watt by giving your plants the best you can re: nutes, water and air. Also put reflectors on your lights so all the light is aimed at the plants and not having to bounce of a wall before it hits a leaf.

End of rant.

I've read a bit of this journal and I'm hanging around to see how it goes, but one thing I noticed right off the bat.

You're not paying enough attention to your water quality!! OMU was almost the first to jump in this journal and the first thing he advised was RO or distilled water. He just did here again. I'm telling you, half your troubles will disappear when you bite the bullet and get an RO system. You can get them on Amazon or Ebay for 125.00 I'm a plumber and I'm telling you it's so simple to install, a chimp could do it. After putting one in, 99% of my issues with nutes went away. If you have a stable starting TDS (PPM) you will be able to mix consistent nutes continuously for the entire grow!!
I'm using GH flora nova line like you did, and I haven't had, but one tiny tip burn due to being completely stoned and forgetting how much of what I put in. lol. My bad.

I can't stress enough the importance of good water. Weather it's DWC, drain to waste, RW, whatever, nothing is better that a good start.

Add-on rant over.

I now return you to your journal. Like I was never here.

Grow on! Andy.

 

[McCdive]

Oh, and sorry, I should have finished the journal to the last page before my comment. I see enough people have gotten on you about that. lol
I've been treating water for 30 years. As OMU said, none of those other filters (Fit in your kitchen faucet or garden hose) do squat for TDS. Distilled water will put you in the poor house and break your back hauling it. Just about every RO for sale has a carbon prefilter on it. I paid $150.00 USD. I remember when those things used to COST me nearly 300 bucks and I was selling them installed for 750! You can't beat eBay.

Done! lol, Andy.

 

[GrizzWald]

Only problem McCdive with saying all his problems are water related, he's been using distilled water...
Great to hear five....

 

[McCdive]

No no. I didn't mean to say all his problems are due to water. Simply, good water eliminates a lot of ppm issues. Well water and city water can vary from week to week.
It was just my two cents worth.

 

[GrizzWald]

Peace bro, hope I didn't come off confrontational again....damn nonemotive type, lol... And please anyone, I was never advising to use town water, just simply stating what I do, lol.... Also checked ppm of my tap water, 93ppm. I'll measure over weekend to see if any change to ppm after goes through filter, 24 hours. But I only filter it cause it's an easier way to dechlorinate the water...

 

[Skybound]

Most city water flows through metal pipes which deteriorate over time and increase ppm. Who can predict how much material will flake off the pipe at any given moment in time, but once through an RO unit, it's clean plastic afterwards. That aside though, RO units are crazy expensive for the Aussies. I don't understand why, but it is what it is so distilled may be the only viable option. Also, because 5 has a pretty small grow, there's no need to spend an arm and a leg for an RO unit, especially if he sticks to drain to waste. For my 20 ounce plants, I was only using 12 gallons a week per plant recirculating. His plants will not be in veg long enough to produce that much each so his water consumption will also not get to such a demand.

5, you're doing just fine with distilled. Definitely get an RO unit, but don't eat less for a month straight to make that happen.

Side note, my RO unit also has a deionizing stage that took my ppm from 5 down to 0. This hurt me as ppm would fluctuate reading to reading and I had to bypass that stage to regular RO filtration.

 

[GrizzWald]

What type ro systems are advised? I see 3,4,5,6 &7 stage units. And does each stage run its own filter and same type? Do they all get replaced at same time? Does the system alert you for filter change after so much water has been passed through? Sorry all the questions...

 

[BigBoned]

I had a similar problem than your, a few years ago... My 300w LED(very very similar than yours) was too close to my plants, I tought 2 ft. was ok and I was not sensing much heat, but it either produced too much heat or something in their light spectrum make the plants drain their iron(because it really looked like an iron deficiency). After I contacted the manufacturer of the light, he advised mo to keep the light at least 4 ft of the top of the plants... I had good results after on another grow with this 300w led by using it during flowering only, keeping good distances and mixing with cfls. Good luck on your grow!

 

[FiveToMidnight]

I've read a bit of this journal and I'm hanging around to see how it goes, but one thing I noticed right off the bat.

You're not paying enough attention to your water quality!! OMU was almost the first to jump in this journal and the first thing he advised was RO or distilled water. He just did here again. I'm telling you, half your troubles will disappear when you bite the bullet and get an RO system. You can get them on Amazon or Ebay for 125.00 I'm a plumber and I'm telling you it's so simple to install, a chimp could do it. After putting one in, 99% of my issues with nutes went away. If you have a stable starting TDS (PPM) you will be able to mix consistent nutes continuously for the entire grow!!
I'm using GH flora nova line like you did, and I haven't had, but one tiny tip burn due to being completely stoned and forgetting how much of what I put in. lol. My bad.

I can't stress enough the importance of good water. Weather it's DWC, drain to waste, RW, whatever, nothing is better that a good start.

Add-on rant over.

I now return you to your journal. Like I was never here.

Grow on! Andy.

Oh, and sorry, I should have finished the journal to the last page before my comment. I see enough people have gotten on you about that. lol
I've been treating water for 30 years. As OMU said, none of those other filters (Fit in your kitchen faucet or garden hose) do squat for TDS. Distilled water will put you in the poor house and break your back hauling it. Just about every RO for sale has a carbon prefilter on it. I paid $150.00 USD. I remember when those things used to COST me nearly 300 bucks and I was selling them installed for 750! You can't beat eBay.

Done! lol, Andy.

Only problem McCdive with saying all his problems are water related, he's been using distilled water...
Great to hear five....

No no. I didn't mean to say all his problems are due to water. Simply, good water eliminates a lot of ppm issues. Well water and city water can vary from week to week.
It was just my two cents worth.

Hey McCdive, I really appreciate you taking the time to both read and comment on my journal, all advice is taken in to consideration. However as Grizzy has mentioned I have been using Distilled water for my entire grow, I have only asked questions regarding tap water and filters due to people like Grizzy having many successful grows under their belt while still using tap water.

As for an RO system, that would be ideal. However as mentioned above, I lack room to be able to set up something like that at this time. From research I have done, as Skybound has mentioned, RO systems are (like everything) very expensive here in AUS and a lot of the sellers available to US customers, are not available here in AUS. So an RO system is out of the question at this time unfortunately.

Most city water flows through metal pipes which deteriorate over time and increase ppm. Who can predict how much material will flake off the pipe at any given moment in time, but once through an RO unit, it's clean plastic afterwards. That aside though, RO units are crazy expensive for the Aussies. I don't understand why, but it is what it is so distilled may be the only viable option. Also, because 5 has a pretty small grow, there's no need to spend an arm and a leg for an RO unit, especially if he sticks to drain to waste. For my 20 ounce plants, I was only using 12 gallons a week per plant recirculating. His plants will not be in veg long enough to produce that much each so his water consumption will also not get to such a demand.

5, you're doing just fine with distilled. Definitely get an RO unit, but don't eat less for a month straight to make that happen.

Side note, my RO unit also has a deionizing stage that took my ppm from 5 down to 0. This hurt me as ppm would fluctuate reading to reading and I had to bypass that stage to regular RO filtration.

Thanks for the confirmation Skybound, I always appreciate your very detailed explanations. The RO unit is already on the list but due to the cost is a fair way down. Hopefully something I can look at in the near future though.

I had a similar problem than your, a few years ago... My 300w LED(very very similar than yours) was too close to my plants, I tought 2 ft. was ok and I was not sensing much heat, but it either produced too much heat or something in their light spectrum make the plants drain their iron(because it really looked like an iron deficiency). After I contacted the manufacturer of the light, he advised mo to keep the light at least 4 ft of the top of the plants... I had good results after on another grow with this 300w led by using it during flowering only, keeping good distances and mixing with cfls. Good luck on your grow!

Thanks for the tip about the LED, its something I have been suspecting for a little while now. All the top leaves seem pretty nice and healthy at this stage though, its just the older lower leaves that are having the issues. Makes me think N deficiency is probably the issue. They also look better after lowing the PPM and raising the N, so I'll keep them where they are for now and see how they go. I think I will try and make a better CFL setup for next time though as the girls seemed to like them a hell of a lot better than the LED.
I just finished reading your indoor grow journal and found it quite interesting. Well done on your harvests!

 

[Skybound]

Grizz, different manufacturers build their units to different specs so you'll have to refer to the owners manuals of each and compare to your liking and budget. I got mine from BulkReefSupply which is obvious an aquarium dealer for those that are seriously into fish keeping. I'd think Australia would have quite a few of such stores and if so would be a great place to shop for supplies as their gear is identical to a hydro grower's needs save for media, lighting and nutes.