Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

[sstressed]

Was I flushing and didn't realize it??

I grew for 20+ years. Four crops a year. Average 1 pound every three months. I was too lazy to flush and never did...unless this is flushing -
I'd stop feeding the girls about 1 to 2 weeks before harvest , just water as needed. Tasted like the great weed it mostly was. Moral of the story, if flushing is a hassell, don't do it.

I stopped growing when we went legal but now Imma try an LED grow. Flushing to be determined.

 

[bobrown14]

Have fun its the only way

 

[safeman]

found that using "fish hydrate" in the flush helps taste, ect and you are not "starving " the plant for 1-2 weeks

 

[Emeraldo]

re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

I'll post my results in fall. If anyone else is interested in finding this out sooner, please feel free to do it yourself. More data points are always good.

I still recommend we get such data from the companies slinging Flush aides. They don't even bother giving numbers on how much better a flush is with their product vs. plain water.

Or they have tested, and didn't like the results, so didn't publish them. (I find this likely.)

Maybe OP's test results would have severely damaged the market fortunes of said flush-aide-slinging corporates. If so, I guess maybe he might be hesitant to publish them for fear of retaliation.

Hey, just a joke!

But heck, I don't think those companies have that data. If they did, they would share it. If any company had
evidence-based botanical proof of the comparative benefits of flushing (with their product, of course, hehe) two weeks before harvest, as opposed to not flushing at all, or as opposed to reducing nute intake to plain water, or to small amounts of water, or no water at all -- I think we would all have known about it for some time. It's a worthy experiment, and I kept an eye out for @ScienceGrow's concluding comments (which so far have not been forthcoming) but I doubt anyone has done the data collection and analysis needed for such proof, including said flush-aide slingers.

If there was such proof, it would be a goldmine for said companies. It could also be that there is no such proof at all but this is kept a secret and no one says anything so that the "myth" of flushing can continue to flourish, well, even in that case it's still sort of a goldmine, at least for speculators. But the total silence on the issue says a lot. Silence on the factual basis for the "myth" of flushing says to me fairly clearly that there ain't much science to support "flushing" (which oddly now is said to include cutting back on nutrition and/or water) as a "pre-harvest technique". The premise of the technique is that flooding the medium with water, thereby cutting off all oxygen, or other stress techniques such as cutting the mainstem, supercropping, etc. would instill in a healthy cannabis female a fear of oncoming death in hopes that in her terror she will desperately pour all her energy into increasing her thc percentage and resin production in a last-ditch attempt at reproduction before Winter comes.



Same can be said of the story about the deer in the forest eating a cannabis plant that protects itself from predators by making a substance that causes the deer to pass out and wake up not knowing where it is.



Debate!

 

[safeman]

Maybe OP's test results would have severely damaged the market fortunes of said flush-aide-slinging corporates. If so, I guess maybe he might be hesitant to publish them for fear of retaliation.

Hey, just a joke!

But heck, I don't think those companies have that data. If they did, they would share it. If any company had
evidence-based botanical proof of the comparative benefits of flushing (with their product, of course, hehe) two weeks before harvest, as opposed to not flushing at all, or as opposed to reducing nute intake to plain water, or to small amounts of water, or no water at all -- I think we would all have known about it for some time. It's a worthy experiment, and I kept an eye out for @ScienceGrow's concluding comments (which so far have not been forthcoming) but I doubt anyone has done the data collection and analysis needed for such proof, including said flush-aide slingers.

If there was such proof, it would be a goldmine for said companies. It could also be that there is no such proof at all but this is kept a secret and no one says anything so that the "myth" or "meme" of flushing can continue to fourish, it's still sort of a goldmine, at least for speculators. But the total silence on the issue says a lot. Silence on the factual basis for the "meme" or "myth" of flushing speaks fairly clearly that there ain't much science to support "flushing" (which oddly now includes cutting back on nutrition) as a "pre-harvest technique". The premise of the technique is that flooding the medium with water, thereby cutting off all oxygen, would induce the fear of death into a healthy cannabis female in hopes that in her terror she will desperately pour all her energy into increasing her thc percentage and resin production in a last-ditch attempt at reproduction before Winter comes.



Same can be said of the story about the deer in the forest eating a cannabis plant that protects itself from predators by making a substance that causes the deer to pass out and wake up not knowing where it is.



Debate!

Do large commerical grows flush ??? No -- For my flushing I use HB-101 and Fish Shit (fish hydrate) for the last week or so know some cultivators feed till harvest !!!! Also read that "flushing agent" are a waste of money - Guess it's up to the cultivator What works for one might not work for another becasue of the nutrients/organics use by each grower. This debate has been going on for 10+ years and can find information to supports one's way to flush,ect If you just use water you can starve your plants for the 2 week flush think starving would hurt terpenes, ect

 

[sstressed]

Do large commerical grows flush ??? No -- For my flushing I use HB-101 and Fish Shit (fish hydrate) for the last week or so know some cultivators feed till harvest !!!! Also read that "flushing agent" are a waste of money - Guess it's up to the cultivator What works for one might not work for another becasue of the nutrients/organics use by each grower. This debate has been going on for 10+ years and can find information to supports one's way to flush,ect If you just use water you can starve your plants for the 2 week flush think starving would hurt terpenes, ect

I was just going to say that the debate was going on years ago. To feed until the end or to just use plain water. It makes sense to me to feed until the end but not have it taste like ferts. There was also the - would it be good to turn off the lights for a day or two before harvest. Or cutting down the light time to match the seasons (I concluded after much reading not to do that.) I do 11/13. Flip of the coin.

There was also the should the leaves look like shit just before you harvest, as in everything has been drained out of them OR to keep the leaves a lovely dark green. I went with the keeping the leaves alive as best I could without affecting the taste/smell.

I'll have to read up on the latest info as I stopped growing a few years ago and I'm trying LEDs for the first time since they actually seem to work these days).

 

[safeman]

I was just going to say that the debate was going on years ago. To feed until the end or to just use plain water. It makes sense to me to feed until the end but not have it taste like ferts. There was also the - would it be good to turn off the lights for a day or two before harvest. Or cutting down the light time to match the seasons (I concluded after much reading not to do that.) I do 11/13. Flip of the coin.

There was also the should the leaves look like shit just before you harvest, as in everything has been drained out of them OR to keep the leaves a lovely dark green. I went with the keeping the leaves alive as best I could without affecting the taste/smell.

I'll have to read up on the latest info as I stopped growing a few years ago and I'm trying LEDs for the first time since they actually seem to work these days).

you will like LED's great yields !!!!!!! get at least a 2.5 mol/jul light

 

[sstressed]

you will like LED's great yields !!!!!!! get at least a 2.5 mol/jul light

I have one viparspectra 2000 and will get one more next payday. I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do with them. I keep looking at my HPS 600 watt but I will like not having all that heat.

 

[Emeraldo]

Do large commerical grows flush ??? No -- For my flushing I use HB-101 and Fish Shit (fish hydrate) for the last week or so know some cultivators feed till harvest !!!! Also read that "flushing agent" are a waste of money - Guess it's up to the cultivator What works for one might not work for another becasue of the nutrients/organics use by each grower. This debate has been going on for 10+ years and can find information to supports one's way to flush,ect If you just use water you can starve your plants for the 2 week flush think starving would hurt terpenes, ect

Fwiw, GHS actually recommends flushing with water 5 weeks before harvest and giving very little water after that. Take a look at the GHS videos of their Super Lemon Haze. A drier plant at harvest is easier to process...

 

[Herbdawg]

What if it was the soil your flushing and not the plant???

 

[Herbdawg]

I flush so as to knock out all the nutes in the Soil so the plant can not grab on to anymore as i dry it out with no water as well.
You may be right about the plants but the plants get the nutes through the roots in the Soil.

 

[safeman]

Fwiw, GHS actually recommends flushing with water 5 weeks before harvest and giving very little water after that. Take a look at the GHS videos of their Super Lemon Haze. A drier plant at harvest is easier to process...

always let plant dry before harvesting - makes sense: a "wet" plant takes longer to dry

 

[Emeraldo]

What if it was the soil your flushing and not the plant???

You cannot flush the plant, despite all the ruckus about that. You can flush the soil in the case of overfert.

 

[Herbdawg]

You cannot flush the plant, despite all the ruckus about that. You can flush the soil in the case of overfert.

Exactly, someone forgot the base of the question, i think.

 

[MAK1]

Do large commerical grows flush ??? No -- For my flushing I use HB-101 and Fish Shit (fish hydrate) for the last week or so know some cultivators feed till harvest !!!! Also read that "flushing agent" are a waste of money - Guess it's up to the cultivator What works for one might not work for another becasue of the nutrients/organics use by each grower. This debate has been going on for 10+ years and can find information to supports one's way to flush,ect If you just use water you can starve your plants for the 2 week flush think starving would hurt terpenes, ect

I have seen a lot os "science" about testing after "flushing". They never explain what flushing is or what they do to flush. Then the "results" always show a bunch of testing on mineral content of the buds and a long spread sheet explaining nothing that matters.
As I hear the issue of flushing is all about nitrates and feeding nitrated compounds. The labs never report any test results for nitrates. Why?
I don't even know what flushing is and I have been searching for several months. The most common answer is that I should pour 15 gallons of pH balanced water onto each 5 gallon pot. I should do this over and over for 2 - 4 weeks Bullshit! What kind of idiocy is this? Sometimes people simply need to pull their heads out of the dirt (or hydro) and apply some thinking. It's a plant and some basic gardening skills are getting lost. I can smoke in my bathroom, I have a mirror in there. This is all the smoke and mirrors I need.

 

[Emilya Green]

I have seen a lot os "science" about testing after "flushing". They never explain what flushing is or what they do to flush. Then the "results" always show a bunch of testing on mineral content of the buds and a long spread sheet explaining nothing that matters.
As I hear the issue of flushing is all about nitrates and feeding nitrated compounds. The labs never report any test results for nitrates. Why?
I don't even know what flushing is and I have been searching for several months. The most common answer is that I should pour 15 gallons of pH balanced water onto each 5 gallon pot. I should do this over and over for 2 - 4 weeks Bullshit! What kind of idiocy is this? Sometimes people simply need to pull their heads out of the dirt (or hydro) and apply some thinking. It's a plant and some basic gardening skills are getting lost. I can smoke in my bathroom, I have a mirror in there. This is all the smoke and mirrors I need.

Please do further research Mak. Fox Farm Labs knows that their nutrients leave behind a lot of salts in the soil. I bring them up because I think it can be generally agreed that they know what they are talking about. They actually recommend a full 3x container size flush periodically during the grow and it is so important that they have put this right on the feeding schedule where it can not be missed. Flushing is important, if you run this type of synthetic nutrient that is EDTA chelated, especially if you use the fertilizer as strongly as is recommended in the Fox Farm system.

It has been explained over and over and over again the science of the flush... we are not flushing the plants because that is impossible, we are flushing the soil. Salt dissolves in water and a 3x flush washes it right out of there. That is all the science you need to understand. You can not flush the plants. It would be like trying to cure a stomach ache by taking 50 baths all in a row... it just doesn't have any effect inside of you.

Salt builds up in a synthetic nutrient grow. It does not build up in an organic grow not using those types of nutes. THerefore, organic grows do not ever need to be flushed, a synthetic grow can benefit from multiple flushes, with the very most important one being right before the final bud stretch in the last two weeks. A full 3x flush at week 6 does wonders to free up the soil from built up salts which allows a full load of nutrients to go into the plants for the last two weeks, providing for a dramatic finish.

Most of your argument above was you clearly seeing that flushing the plant itself is total myth. So on this flushing thing, you are both right and wrong, depending on how you are looking at this. Some people also mistakenly call starving the plant of nutrients for the last week or two, flushing. This is not a true use of the term, although technically you are flushing the plant itself by starving it till the end, sacrificing yield and quality for purity.

 

[Emilya Green]

I don't even know what flushing is and I have been searching for several months. The most common answer is that I should pour 15 gallons of pH balanced water onto each 5 gallon pot.

Almost right. You DO NOT need to pH adjust this water. The only reason we pH adjust is so that our synthetic nutes are in the proper pH range so that the EDTA chelation bond breaks away and the nutes become mobile. If you can stick your hand in the water without it burning away, the pH is fine. The plant, microbes or soil do not care what the pH is. Since you are not adding nutes during a flush, there is no need to pH adjust.

 

[Braddah Waiheesohai]

Ya'all have a lot of strong opinions on flushing! I can't help but laugh a bit at keeping the plant as green as possible all the way to harvest. Only cuz I grow for buds not leaves.

What makes a plant green? Is it chlorophyl? Okay, what are we trying to break down and get rid of when curing to get buds that don't taste and smell like hay? Is it chlorophyl?

THC/resin production is a defense mechanism, and we know stressors can trigger this plant to 'defend' itself by producing more THC/resin.

Maybe flushing (followed by a dry out just before harvest) is a technique to get one last thc push and a jumpstart on the dry/cure process for cultivators who have relied on this plant for income, and thus benefit from speeding up any part of the production process they can.

*The 'science' / 'studies' on both sides of the issue are total hogwash, too small and not enough peer review.

 

[bluter]

.Or cutting down the light time to match the seasons (I concluded after much reading not to do that.) I do 11/13. Flip of the coin.

you can run a diminishing schedule in flower if you have the ppfd to do it. 12/12 - 11/13 - 10/14. it'll cut your flower time down without losing weight or quality. it may even produce better on select strains or phenos.

it will cut as much as two weeks off full or even landrace sativas. i've run some with 120 day flower times.

you have to have enough rig to do it though. i triple my running watts from veg to flower, going from 200 in veg to 600w in flower. i run cob led and quantum now. but i did the same with hid.

as for final bud swell - it's also mostly about the light. again you need the ppfd to do it. or sheer wattage if you're a dinosaur like me. proper feeding in balance also needs to be there. but it won't happen much without the light.

it also helps to have a flower biased light. most led rigs are full spec, which means a compromise on the kelvin. depending on where the light is 'tuned', it can be harder to hit the swell.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Been proven over and over that flushing which is really nothing but starving the plant in its final two weeks accomplishes two things .
About a 10+% loss in yield
And maybe about a week less of flower.
It does ZERO to quality, taste, etc.

As long as you're not force feeding it plant available nitrogen then its going to naturally fade, turn yellow, and slowly die as bud ripen.
Starving the plant during its fattening stage is counter productive.

I much prefer to allow the plant to naturally go into senescence and to finish on its own time.
Take from the soil what it needs when it needs it.
Like its done for 400 million years.

The only need for flushing is to remove salts from soil if you bottle feed.
Which IMO if you're going to grow in soil then grow in soil, just amend the soil and have large enough pots for the plant to have all it needs.
If you prefer bottled nutrients then you're better off using Coco.
Coco as a medium is much better for feeding salt based nutrients, much easier to water much easier to flush salts out when needed.