Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED

[Keith Lake]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I agree with bmarduk we should be including time. The only reason I didn't do this is that too few people use this metric and since this comparison was identical it was an eliminated variable.

Personally, I couldn't even tell you a reasonable g/wh result This also brings the strain flowering requirement into play. Meaning it wouldn't be fair to compare an Indica to a Sativa strain

I wholeheartedly agree it would enable to opportunity to optimize veg time.

 

[Mmmmick]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I calculated it to be .929 g/w (.93), based on 117/126. I used the product name as the basis for the calculation.

Setting Sun measured the actual draw @ 124
HGL draw measured @ 124 watts. I didn't use this because it was a static test. A good data point to be sure, but not necessarily representative of the average draw over time. Nevertheless, if you use 124, you can claim .943 g/w

I think HGL deducts the 12 watts of IR LEDs from their total wattage before calculating, or 117/114=1.026 or 1.03 when rounded. In my opinion if you're burning the watts you should count them

Hi Soniq.
I think the IR leds are included but power used to drive fans and circuitry is not.

 

[Keith Lake]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

^^ That makes sense and I stand corrected.

It's still electricity used though, would you count it in your calculations?

 

[Green Utopia]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I agree with bmarduk we should be including time. The only reason I didn't do this is that too few people use this metric and since this comparison was identical it was an eliminated variable.

Personally, I couldn't even tell you a reasonable g/wh result This also brings the strain flowering requirement into play. Meaning it wouldn't be fair to compare an Indica to a Sativa strain

I wholeheartedly agree it would enable to opportunity to optimize veg time.

I gotta say I think the time factor is necessary for Sativa vs Indica comparisons. In fact - its the most important difference in costs between the two I think. Not just electricity of course, but nutes as well. It would be impossible to do this experiment with a sativa on one side and indica on the other of course - the plants would be different everything by definition.

As you pointed out, in this experiment all these factors zero out. I just got a wild hair about trying to nail down the measure of efficiency lately. And like you said - I am finding that its all about optimizing veg time.

Thanks for more great insight!

 

[Green Utopia]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

^^ That makes sense and I stand corrected.

It's still electricity used though, would you count it in your calculations?

Definitely. Period. If one can use a Kill-A-Watt and still produce the same yield in the same time - then that is more efficient. You are getting more g/w. If a light requires extra electricity to run, and can be measured - than that is less efficient. Watts is not a measure of luminosity. Its electricity. If a light uses electricity it should be counted.

I would love to see all manufacturers use the real numbers based on kw/H.

 

[Mmmmick]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

^^ That makes sense and I stand corrected.

It's still electricity used though, would you count it in your calculations?

So many possible ways to compute the gpw, measured, stated, leds only, etc. I just use the stated power of the light, which includes the fans etc. But only for some models, heheh. I think the led industry needs a few standards set.

Do hps users include the power for the fans they need for cooling, and if they do how much is subtracted for the amount of fan power used for fresh air, lol? Can't even just count the leds and multiply by their individual wattage because they are rarely driven for 100% output.

I don't think there will be much agreement on what to include or not so I just try to get a ballpark figure to determine whether my results are improving, but not to compare to other grows.

How's that for a non answer? lol

 

[Keith Lake]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

So many possible ways to compute the gpw, measured, stated, leds only, etc. I just use the stated power of the light, which includes the fans etc. But only for some models, heheh. I think the led industry needs a few standards set.

Do hps users include the power for the fans they need for cooling, and if they do how much is subtracted for the amount of fan power used for fresh air, lol? Can't even just count the leds and multiply by their individual wattage because they are rarely driven for 100% output.

I don't think there will be much agreement on what to include or not so I just try to get a ballpark figure to determine whether my results are improving, but not to compare to other grows.

How's that for a non answer? lol

You make a great point about the fans needed for HPS. I can only get a headache trying to mentally apportion the percentage used for heat removal and the percentage used for fresh air. In once sense I could argue with myself that if odor removal is necessary then this and fresh air makeup needs set the exhaust fan size and power and heat reduction is a free dual use. Of course we could flip this around and say odor removal comes free while you're reducing heat

Great post grow discussion

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I'd hit that for sure!

I have been! Aroma and taste continue to improve with more cure time and it's just killer knockout bud.

thank you slimm!

Great wrap! Great nugs! Enjoy the well earned fruits of your labor.

Thanks Papa G! I've been laying a bit low and doing just that .

thank you brother Haze .

That sun set/rise rules.... I can't wait to see the Grow LED Hydro 300w led unit up against the tried and true 400w HPS.. There is no doubt you will do a top notch journal for sure...

I'll do my best with it dog. I hope it goes as well as this one did, but with a few more jars at the end .

Wow, I almost cried. LMAO, god I hate bein such a pansy!

I am super sad to see it come to an end as well.

Truly an Incredible job and journal.

Obviously can't wait to see the new one get kicked off!

We'll see ya all there!!!

I prefer to think of it as "emotionally invested" rather than being a pansy. Yep, that's the ticket .

thanks man!

Right on sun !! Just fantastic !!

thank you Slow, hope to see you for the next rumble .

congratulations on a fantastic journey/journal.
Instant classic bro.

We'll all be be here for the super sized version.

super size me beotch.

lol, you gonna want fries with that?

thanks brother wheelo!

Great looking finished buds SS.

very nice.

thank you Mmmmick!

With the total from the 10 plants, it was really a pretty decent haul for a personal grow.

You given me a world of confidence after not growing for 20 years. Thanks a million.

that's very gratifying to hear brother, thank you

Peace, out.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

hey SS i was wondering if you could clear one thing up for me? i was on the other place where the owner on HGL posted you final test yields and she claims you got 1.03 grams per watt? didnt you only get .94gpw or something? am i messing something? wasn't your yield 117g and when u hooked the light up to the meeter it read 124w? i dont understand if i missed something? because 1.03gpw is one hell of a job.

HGL claims that only 114w of the 126w are used to produce light, so that's how the 1.03 g/w is justified.

So, if you test an HGL light, be sure to disconnect all the fans first, lol.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

You make a great point about the fans needed for HPS. I can only get a headache trying to mentally apportion the percentage used for heat removal and the percentage used for fresh air. In once sense I could argue with myself that if odor removal is necessary then this and fresh air makeup needs set the exhaust fan size and power and heat reduction is a free dual use. Of course we could flip this around and say odor removal comes free while you're reducing heat

Great post grow discussion

yep, you can only flip that cart and horse around so many times before getting a headache.

What's more important, ventilation or heat management?

You can't grow nice plants unless you address both.

Most peeps seem to focus on heat management and that's what drives their set up, but that can be a real problem for growers who live in mild or cool climes that allow them to manage heat without proper air exchange.

If I can get my temps down with weak fans and then think I'm good to go, I'm ignoring something that's essential to healthy plants.

Odor control?

oh schnaps

 

[IrishBoy]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

HGL claims that only 114w of the 126w are used to produce light, so that's how the 1.03 g/w is justified.

So, if you test an HGL light, be sure to disconnect all the fans first, lol.

thanks for clearing that up for me. i hate when companys do their claims like that because we dont really know how much power if used by the fans, its just a way to make their lights sound better IMO. i like to go by the total watts used, but to each is their own

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Most peeps seem to focus on heat management and that's what drives their set up, but that can be a real problem for growers who live in mild or cool climes that allow them to manage heat without proper air exchange.

If I can get my temps down with weak fans and then think I'm good to go, I'm ignoring something that's essential to healthy plants.

And I'll add small personal grows with low watts to the above scenario also.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

thanks for clearing that up for me. i hate when companys do their claims like that because we dont really know how much power if used by the fans, its just a way to make their lights sound better IMO. i like to go by the total watts used, but to each is their own

I agree.

If the fans are necessary, then they should be included.

 

[wizewizo]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Then we all need to start adjusting our numbers to include the draw from the ballast and the fans used to cool then?

I dunno, I see the LED manufacturers point and I see OURS as well... So I'm on the fence on this one....

Example: last round I harvest just over 10oz off my 400w light for a .71g/watt rating. But when I add my 119w fan and 40w for the ballast, my numbers drop significantly. 559w used to produce 10oz is .49g/watt.

So I dunno which side of the fence to jump on as of this point. But I understand both points

 

[bubble grower]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

just wanted to say this is VERY COOL soniq... and becoming EXTREMELY informative.

 

[Keith Lake]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I'm open minded and appreciate the discussion. It's the integrated nature of the fans that's the tipping point for me.

If it was called a 114 watt LED I'd have a different opinion

I do see the point on the other side and guess there really doesn't have to be a conclusion. It's about flushing the data out so everyone can make informed decisions

Great discussion, I just love the way we can actually talk about things here.

 

[wizewizo]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I do see the point on the other side and guess there really doesn't have to be a conclusion. It's about flushing the data out so everyone can make informed decisions

Exactly!

 

[dogsnova]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I just love the way we can actually talk about things here.

This is the exact reason I'm here..

 

[Green Utopia]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

I too agree that to try to calculate true usage gets ridiculous. And again, this was a side by side comp of two LEDs so much of this discussion is superfluous. But, that having been said, the fans used to cool a led are different in my opinion than the cooling required for an HID. The reason being that the fans for an HID are optional.

Those in the LED are allocated only to the LED and draw power any time the light is on.

Fans for an HID may or may not be on when the light is on, and they are most likely doing more than one thing - ie. cooling, venting and carbon filter on one fan.

So yes, when I go to figure out how much electricity I'm using on my HID, I absolutely try to figure in for the extra used for the fans and cooling. But there is no way I would expect an HID manufacturer to include a number for the fan because they have no idea which fan I will use. OR even if I will use any at all - plenty of HID lights don't even have glass.

Not the case with an LED.

So when I look at a rating - I want that number to mean something. The LED guys claim you won't need supplemental cooling if you run their light. Good. Do they require the fans to run? Yes? Then you must include that electricity to compare their light's electricity to any other.

HID users know that there are all kinds of hidden costs. Even down to the gauge of wire in the power cord. LED manufacturers and users keep trying to pretend like those costs aren't there.

MANUFACTURERS - PLEASE USE REAL NUMBERS!!! YOU WILL BE FOUND OUT IF YOU TRY TO FUDGE IT !!

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED

Yep, the integrated nature of the fans on the LED lights is why I think they should be included.

Also agree with every word Papa Green just said.

And also agree that there is no "right" way to see this issue, but discussing it helps each of us find what's right for us.