How much do touching leaves really matter?

[TheFertilizer]

I haven't really had to consider this issue before, but right now I have 10 plants in 3 gallon pots in my 4x4 and they're not really fitting in there very well without crowding up on the leaves. If I took out 1 they'd all have ample room, but then that's minus one plant. I have heard that plants won't get as big as they could if their leaves are crowded, but then again I've also read about SOG growing where the name of the game is cramming them in together. Anyway, I'm not really sure if I should try to take out one of them to leave me with 9 and an easy 3x3 grid? Right now I have 3 in the back, 3 in the front, and 4 in the middle but the two in the center are set diagonal from each other to give their leaves as much space as possible. But the middle section is still way more crowded than the front and back, and I feel like it's predictable that they'll stay smaller than the ones in the front and back. I suppose I could just be sure to rotate their positions regularly, but then I'd also have to deal with the low air flow anyway.

My camera's battery is dead too take a pic of them in their current arrangement, but this is a pic from last night. They had saucers under them so I couldn't really position them well, but should give an idea of the space and size of the plants.

 

[dr.h00k]

Personally...I don't think I would put more than 6 plants in that space...I'm guilty of overcrowding(so many strains...so little time mentality) myself, and yield suffers for it...picking the right strains and maintaining optimal conditions would prolly see you yielding more with fewer plants...I've yielded more with 9 plants than I have with 13 and 11!...if you could put one up for adoption, I'm sure you would appreciate the space...butt!...which one!??...tuff decision(I had to pick 3 to farm out last year...lolool...)...I plan to follow my own advice next year...although I have gained approx. 20 more sq. ft....so who knows...lolool...cheerz...h00k...

 

[AKgramma]

Leaves that are touching shade out growth that could produce more buds. What you COULD do, if you cannot set up another grow area on some shelving, is to raise all the plants so their canopy is at the same level and trim out whatever is shaded below, like a scrog without the scrog. Then weave the branches around each other to form a sea of green.

Dr. Hook is right, however, you MUST give room for these plants to spread out, or you will get just a few buds out of the batch.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Yeah the sad thing is I was only planning on doing 5 in the first place, then a lot more germinated than I expected and i wanted to keep as many as I could, and i just don't think I realized how much space they were going to need until I actually up-potted them. To make matters worse, I accidentally forgot to label which were which so I have to guess if i want to make an even number between the Blackberry Kush and Platinum Girl Scout Cookies, but I think I'm probably just going to decide based on size. They were all female last time so I think whatever i end up choosing will be whatever my female count is.

 

[Richard Richardson]

Maybe you should consider getting a small tent for veg?

I wouldn't do without one now, even if only for one plant to mature, while the others flower.

A Sea of green produces lots of tiny plants - very wasteful unless you have lots of clones.

Grown from seed, fewer plants like more room to express themselves and will quickly fill your space.

 

[dr.h00k]

Culling any would be a shame...if you put a couple for adoption would help...AK's idea may work for you, but adjusting the heights on different strains can be a PITA...however it may work in your case, but once you start weaving and they fill out...thats prolly where they'll stay...if you do some lollipopping, should give you enuff space to feed and water underneath...I sometimes have to put a 2/3 foot extension on my watering can...best of luck...will be following your progress...cheerz...h00k...

 

[TheFertilizer]

I would really like to do a separate veg space but I would only feel comfortable running a 100-200 watt light. My electrical setup is only on a 30 amp circuit so the 400w already is a tall order, especially in the summer months when I have to run AC.

I think dr. h00k got it right with six...

8

6

9

 

[Twox]

That's 12 two gallon pots in a 4x4.... I'm down sizing to 9, it's just to much....

As for your electrical a 30 amp breaker should easily handle your set up and more. Most of us probably run on a 20 amp fuse . Your 4oo watt lamp is probably around 4 to 5 amps leaving you lots of room for electrical.

 

[TheFertilizer]

That's 12 two gallon pots in a 4x4.... I'm down sizing to 9, it's just to much....

As for your electrical a 30 amp breaker should easily handle your set up and more. Most of us probably run on a 20 amp fuse . Your 4oo watt lamp is probably around 4 to 5 amps leaving you lots of room for electrical.

Like just one circuit? I have just one 30 amp glass fuse for the entire house and all its appliances. I think i will probably use the gas furnace this winter, but usually with the AC I use up 8-10 amps just on those, and so I have to be careful about running things like the microwave or hotplates without turning stuff off first. It's pretty old wiring.

It's a hard choice. I just flipped them to 12/12 today too so they will only get about 2x their size now. I really want to go with at least the 8 plant pattern I have, but there's not a lot of side-branching and some of those plants just want to get BIG, I can tell by their leaves. Big fat 9 blade leaves, wider than my hand on one of them.

In the mean time though I did put two of them in the corner with a 100 w CFL, I just can't bring myself to kill them. I can at least take cuts off them. Might make cycling into a flowering crop quicker when I'm done with this one, I don't know. Not being able to sleep in my bedroom because of the light kind of sucks though :/ Thinking about just biting the bullet and culling them.

Would love to adopt them but I don't really have anyone who will take them. Everyone is at their limit or not doing an indoor crop this year. I would probably just save their leaves for smoothies.

 

[Twox]

Sorry about the misunderstanding on the electrical. I was thinking breakers in a breaker panel ( with breakers for each room and each major appliance) Not a old school 30 amp glass fuse. Sorry about that.

As for your problem of plant configuration I think 9 is the magic number. As a new grower though I say keep them all and flower them all. I'm still learning and I truly believe that the experience of handling a tent with so may plants has made me a better grower. I could have killed 3 of them to get my 9 but there's always the next grow and I want to finish my journey and share my experience of stuffing a tent wall to wall.

Edit: I highly recommend cloning. I use a 24 watt t5 for clones and It works great. Plus you get to keep you genetics. I've potted clones and left them in solo cups in a humidty dome for 6 weeks with very mild growth, the low wattage light almost keeps them In stasis... definitely worth looking into

 

[TheFertilizer]

No problem the fuses are so old most people don't assume that's what I'm talking about.

So this is what my temporary veg area looks like... Do you think these plants will grow much under the light given? I think I am going to do my cloning off of them, so they need to stick around for 4-6 weeks?

Looks like one of the plants got a little bit of leaf burn or something, not sure how that happened. The tent got up to 82 today and the light was only 12" above so maybe that, and since this one was the only one right under it maybe it's the only one that got burnt, so I just went ahead and took and its counterpart out and put them in the veg area too, so now there's 6 in the flower tent.

Is it just me or do my CFLs look a whole lot more blue than my MH?

 

[dr.h00k]

I can't even fathom a house powered by only 30 amps!??...although I do know one fella in WV who suffers the same as you when it comes to power...I'm older than dirt, and the smallest panel I can recall in my neck of the woods, is 60 amps...the accepted normal now is 200 amp service...I can only imagine the challenges of running a household with that supply...what with our affinity for electronics!...

...enuff of that tho'...Yer taco leaves could be the result of heat stress...tho' 82 isn't that high...could be a hot spot for that plant where it was in relation to the light...some will say a PH problem can cause this as well...ideally in soil...you will want to maintain 6.2 to 6.8 levels...Yer Veg area could prolly use more watts...butt...Ya got what you got...they look quite healthy and should be able to get Ya babies under current conditions...best of luck...cheerz...h00k...

 

[TheFertilizer]

Yeah you definitely have to be watt-smart. It may be 60 amps, there are two 30 amp sockets, but it doesn't seem like removing one of them actually effects anything.

I think the taco leaves might have been because of the temperature difference too, went from 66 this morning to 82. Because yeah I didn't think 82 was that hot either, they usually like that. I might still need to rinse off my leaves from my last foliar feed too, but that was when they were much smaller so I figured it would have dissipated over the larger leaf surfaces by now.

I think I am going to try to do six, I have quite a nice group of six here and it kind of feels like they just won't get as big as they could even with only 8 pots. I think they want to get really big too, look at the size of these leaves As much as I want to try to cram the extra two or three in there I feel like my greediness will come back to haunt me.

I like your thinking Twox, with the added difficulty bringing more experience, but this is actually about my third grow and I am just wanting to get a really good yield without challenging myself any more than I have to. My primary goal is basically what will put me into that 1 ounce per plant place.

 

[AKgramma]

You can leave some in veg and put a few to flower early, once they start growing an alternate leaf pattern. That way you'll have a perpetual grow, with ladies in different stages, in different spots around the apartment. Will avoid some overcrowding.

I agree with you, don't terminate them just because they are over crowded. Your plants look great! You're doing a good job!

 

[Richard Richardson]

I did put two of them in the corner with a 100 w CFL, I just can't bring myself to kill them. I can at least take cuts off them. Might make cycling into a flowering crop quicker when I'm done with this one, I don't know. Not being able to sleep in my bedroom because of the light kind of sucks though :/

How about building a space Station for veg?

Also, there are household LEDs now that only use 10 or 12 watts and can also be used for growing, like CFLs

 

[Doctor Trevor]

I have two plants in a 2' x 4' tent. Two small plants. It's getting pretty tight in there.