I don't understand why so many are eager to top, frim, primp whatever

[Saturn]

When you do this you are limiting the height of your plant.

One does not split off into two parts that are 2 x the original.

Yes you get two tops, no they are not the same size as the one you nipped.



AT this point I favor manipulating the branches but not cropping them.

IMO, you can have one massive top or two smaller tops. Net gain is the same per gr., quality of the larger one is better than the two smaller ones.


I've been wrong before so I don't take offense with those that disagree. I just don't see a big need for it.

 

[shmicky]

Re: I don't understand why so many are eager to top, frim, primp whatever....

keep the hight down a suppose, or for SCROG! HAVE CURRENTLY topd half my crop just t see wot the outcome is. bt year ya ryt a dont c the point.

 

[Bandit420]

Re: I don't understand why so many are eager to top, frim, primp whatever....

When you do this you are limiting the height of your plant.

One does not split off into two parts that are 2 x the original.

Yes you get two tops, no they are not the same size as the one you nipped.



AT this point I favor manipulating the branches but not cropping them.

IMO, you can have one massive top or two smaller tops. Net gain is the same per gr., quality of the larger one is better than the two smaller ones.


I've been wrong before so I don't take offense with those that disagree. I just don't see a big need for it.

It all depends on exactly how and what is pruned from a plant. When I bloom a large mother plant I remove her head, lower branches and inner canopy leaving four to six large even height branches. All of the pruning will transfer all of the plants energy into the remianing branches and she will go thru a very aggressive growth spurt thru preflower. By the time she's finshed blooming and is ripe for harvest, those four to six branches will have massive colas 2-3 times the size of her single cola sisters and daughters.
Here is an example of my last mama that I pruned before flowering

 

[StormChaos]

Re: I don't understand why so many are eager to top, frim, primp whatever....

When you do this you are limiting the height of your plant.

One does not split off into two parts that are 2 x the original.

Yes you get two tops, no they are not the same size as the one you nipped.



AT this point I favor manipulating the branches but not cropping them.

IMO, you can have one massive top or two smaller tops. Net gain is the same per gr., quality of the larger one is better than the two smaller ones.


I've been wrong before so I don't take offense with those that disagree. I just don't see a big need for it.

I have to disagree with your blanket statement.... not all strains respond the same way to topping.

I have experimented with 4 methods - topping, fimming, LST and HST and many combinations of those methods.

I have found that all 4 of those methods above, when employed, are most effective when you have a longer vegetative cycle (I like to veg for 6 weeks after rooting clones)... especially when using FIM & Topping Methods.

I prefer a combination of Topping and LSTing and have found it to be the highest yielding method - atleast for me, with my strains, veg cycles, etc. I like to take a rooted clone, and veg it for 2 to 3 weeks... then TOP (taking the top and rooting it if needed) and then LSTing the 4 to 6 lower branches over the next 3 to 4 weeks. Since I am growing in 5 gallon DWC buckets I just loosely tie string to the branch making a big loop using a couple of half-hitches and secure it the lip of the bucket with an S hook - and adjust the string as needed every couple of days - allowing/forcing the 4 to 6 new main branches to grow outwards.... and then up at the onset of flowering.

I found LSTing alone to be effective regardless of veg cycle.

My least favorite methods are FIM and HST.

I have had mixed results with FIMming and found the recovery time and time it takes for new growth to start to be excessive and the time outweighed the end result - atleast with the strains I am working with. Other people have had awesome results using this method, just not me. Perhaps it was something I was doing wrong, but I simply had results that exceeded my expectations with topping and lsting to not bother any further with this method....

The HST training - snapping branches or cutting a notch out and bending the branch over worked well to control height - the plants are hardy and rebound well. But you must give them time to recover or your yield will suffer.

 

[Saturn]

Re: I don't understand why so many are eager to top, frim, primp whatever....

Thanks for the replies.

I agree about the strain comment.

I just have a real hard time cutting off a nice healthy part of the plant.

Would any of you care to explain how you've done this and the results?

Appreciate the input.

I'm pretty stuck in my ways and feel the plant should grow like it was intended but may have to change that way of thinking after I see how others have done.

Forgive my ignorance, what does LSTing mean? Nevermind, I found an example of it.

 

[StormChaos]

Re: I don't understand why so many are eager to top, frim, primp whatever....

Thanks for the replies.

I agree about the strain comment.

Would any of you care to explain how you've done this and the results?

I'm pretty stuck in my ways and feel the plant should grow like it was intended but may have to change that way of thinking after I see how others have done.

Forgive my ignorance, what does LSTing mean? Nevermind, I found an example of it.

LST = Low Stress Training
HST = High Stress Training

I am not a Biologist, Botanist or a Horticulturist so this following bit of information may not be 100% complete, as I may be excluding some information... but this is the basics as I understand them.....

Essentially, a plant has complex patterns of Auxins. These Auxins are essentially hormones and complex acids that control everything from root growth, bud growth, branching, flower sites, elongation... anything that has to do with plant growth, auxins control.

Certain auxins can be externally manipulated IE - Topping, FIMming, LST and HST. All plants respond to auxin manipulation, some better than others.

So when you top and LST a plant your really just manipulating certain auxins to achieve a desired result... in this case more main branching and bud sites.

When I top a plant - and then LST the lower branches, I end up with a plant that is more like a bush with a shape similar to an azalea rather than a Christmas tree.

The potential results are going to be dependant on so many factors... but mainly on how long your vegetative period is and lighting.... topping, LSTing, Fimming, HST all produce better results with longer veg periods. Early in my experimental stage when I was just learning to grow I once created a bush that had 15 main colas and many other bud sites... the harvest weighed in at 19oz for that one plant.... But, Don't get all excited and run out and chop the top of your plant off thinking your going to get a monster yield ... Like I said earlier, this isn't to be attributed solely to Topping and LSTing alone. There are SO many factors to get results like that... I like to grow my plants big, I use 5 gallon RDWCs, my nutes are "dialed in" and I have optimal Vegetative and flowering environments. I do everything I can except use CO2.

 

[Saturn]

Re: I don't understand why so many are eager to top, frim, primp whatever....

Thanks, good info.

 

[oks226]

Re: I don't understand why so many are eager to top, frim, primp whatever....

I have experimented with topping plants for 2 years now. The plants I have topped almost always yield more, almost 5 grams more per plant on average. I have heard that it is strain dependent, but am starting to believe it is not.

The strains that I have grown and found that topping yields more are : Grandaddy Purp, Purple Urkle, Orange bud, Silver Haze, Strawberry Cough, New York City Diesel, Trainwreck, Lemonwreck, Big Bud x Trainwreck, OG Kush, and Jedi Mind Trick. I have actually grown exactly the same side by side each time and noticed this increase in yield.

Each time I did this I was using Botanicare nutrients. I am currently running a side by side comparison of House & Garden against Botanicare and am noticing that the H & G plants that are topped are not nearly keeping up with the non topped plants, while the Botanicare plants that are topped are outdoing their non-topped sisters.

So I am starting to think that yield from topping is more nutrient dependent rather than strain dependent. I know it sounds odd, it does to me as well, but this is my first time seeing non-topped plants win out.

 

[420hps]

fimm/topp/trimm welcome to the hermies

many times after the fimming/topping method, few plants in the early flower stage,turned into hermafhrodite !!!

 

[Roseman]

Re: I don't understand why so many are eager to top, frim, primp whatever....

I've experimented with Topping of 8 grows, and I am 100% convinced that I get just as big of buds, but twice as many, from Topping them.

I humbly beg to differ from your conclusions, I will always TOP and FIM, always.


Topping

 

[Tricks]

FIMMING is the bomb, but you can't over do it, unlike topping you don't cut the entire top of the plant, you cut very little in fact, 80% of 2 leaves, this produces at least 2 extra bud sites each time you do this. I have read you can over due this and some strains may not like it, but I haven't found one, then again I haven't had the chance to grow anything but bag seeds, but they always turned out great, this was in the 70's and 80's outside, so I'll post a journal on my friends grow, and we'll see how it goes!

 

[Tricks]

That should have read but you CAN over do it, to much FIMMing has been known to case problems.

 

[HiTimes4Me]

Actually FIMming is just topping while the Apical meristem is very small...That 80% of two leaves is housing 100% of the next node and thats the node that gets chopped off just like topping it's just that you don't waste any time growing a nice couple inches of plant matter and then just cut it off you get it before it gets big...but you could always clone the bigger tops and it wouldnt be a waste...

 

[Tricks]

Actually FIMming is just topping while the Apical meristem is very small...That 80% of two leaves is housing 100% of the next node and thats the node that gets chopped off just like topping it's just that you don't waste any time growing a nice couple inches of plant matter and then just cut it off you get it before it gets big...but you could always clone the bigger tops and it wouldnt be a waste...

I agree with most of this, not sure if I called FIMMing the same as Topping, very close, but different, and I probably mis-understood what you were saying LOL

 

[FoxMulder]

Topping helps me keep the height down as my grow box has limited space. Topping also spreads the branches out so they all get more equal lighting. My last harvested plant had 16 main shoots and several secondary shoots at the start of flowering, and being at the same height, they all developed excellent colas.
I remember reading somewhere that there is a limit to how much you can multiply your main branches, before the effectiveness diminishes, and that this is strain-dependent.
I like to start Topping after the 4th or 5th node, and then continue Topping after every two nodes after that, until the start of the flowering stage. My sativas usually end up with 8 or 16 main shoots, and all become great bud sites.

 

[Smokemupm8]

Good to see some ppl are for leaving their girls heads on! I dont usually top my girls and some tops on mid branches had crowns the size as the main cola. Dried the main head weighed 15.6g and the few smaller ones were all between 8/12 grams dry each, over 28 tops.. And if you LST or whateva for a possible gain of only 5 g per plant- Leave her be i rekn! Each to their own tho and i have seen great yields with different techniques, it usually comes down to space, time or cash limitations. I wish i could be one of them ppl who buys 4 houses and fills 3 with weed!! But i dont so i use my space best i can and as trouble free as possible, thats why i usually have a solo grow. Goodluk and Happy Harvesting

 

[Kush Killer]

the reason i top/and or fim is, i WANT more bud sites for a even canopy and for the fact that a ginormous main cola... also has a giant stem in it too. which= wasted dry wieght

 

[YardDog35]

What up Smoke! My answer to that is lighting. I realized you touched on space, time, etc., but lighting is by far the #1 determination of whether to top/lst or not to. Followed closely by height restrictions.

If I ran a 600 or 1k watter I would let them go most likely...oh a close third would be type of strain (no answer is easy with growing lol).

With high wattage HID's I know they could reach 4 feet tall and I would still get great light penetration. Therefore allowing lower sites to develop almost as well as the main (again strains vary big time). With my 250 watt I know anything over 30" tall is not going to get great lighting.

Kush touched on an excellent point as well. A big fat main cola which a lot of strains will produce. Not only the stem, which would vary. A fatty cola or two can be prone to mold due to the long drying process.

Personally if I'm not going sea of green, which I realized can be strain picky. I would at least top once, unless it was a short and fat indica.

Shit...with that being said I guess type of strain would be #1 in determining whether to top or not!

 

[Smokemupm8]

hey Yarddog,, whats news??
great advice, yeah there are a few reasons as to why ppl choose to use certain grow items, alot of the time IMO some people have been mis informed, or are trying to copy what theyve seen in someone else's grow. But they lack the other essential knowledge of PH s,PPM, full hydro, air circulation-intake,extract. which can destroy their plants in hours if not right.
As i said i dont normally top, but may next grow to see what it will do in my space if this grow goes sour..
But ive seen great results, harvest wise, from scrogs ,sog, s/crop or M/crop.. But its bit mean on my plant to do it!! LOl.. Anyways have a look at my journal one day, see if you have any tips mate?? Im trying to get main cola to re-establish itself as leader. The other higher branches have now been tethered downa little so hoping some more Auxins will pump into main cola.. Cheers,SMOKEM..

 

[voucher]

I was thinking of a natural grow for this coming season. I grow indoors and don't have an A/C system in my grow area, so I have to wait until the weather cools off. I was thinking of a mix of indica & sativa or indica & hybrid clones. No topping or lst, use milk crates and other ways to keep them all the same height.