Icemud's Far Red LED Journal - Flower Trigger Manipulation - Budmaster LED Lights

[Icemud]

Looking good my friend, how you finding the Emerson in regards to plant growth and vigour etc?

Honestly its really hard to tell any difference. I don't really notice one at all yet... They plants do seem maybe slightly ahead of schedule, but really that is just an observation off of memory. I wish I had room for a side by side to really tell.

 

[Icemud]

Hey everyone!!!

I apologize for the long delay in updates but I've been a little stressed with life lately which has left me fairly unmotivated lately for updating, but now I'm on to a good track again

Today makes day 27 of flowering (from the flip to 12/12).

The girls are looking pretty good, despite a few of the plants having some long term deficiency issues that I can't seem to correct. I really think that its about time that I dump my 3 year old recycled soil and start new as I think that its either a build up of salts, too much calcium or some other issue as I just can't seem to make my plants happy, even making sure to water accordingly and check ph before feedings.. so I think the soil is just spent, and the ratios are probably way off.

With that being said though, the plants still are doing fairly well despite the troubles, and the 2 mystery plants are actually looking amazing, and since they weren't topped or trained, the buds are about 3x the size of the other plants which have to share the energy they gather for the many tops, these untopped mystery plants are putting all that energy into the main meristem, and it shows.

I have been feeding them about every 4-5 days, once the soil really dries out and been rotating between earth juice and botanicare feedings.

Other than that not much else to report on

 

[Icemud]

I forgot to mention... I officially named some of the strains that I created last grow...

So far we have...


Black and Tange = black cherry soda x tangie

Cherry Float = Black Cherry Soda x Ogiesel

Black Harley = Black Cherry Soda x Harlequin

Black Fire Soda = Black Cherry Soda x Fire OG

A few people will be running some testers for me so I am excited to see how they do. I won't have a chance to run any of these until a few more rounds of seed projects are done so I hope they all promote excellent crosses. We will see

 

[The Dealer]

I have my mars pro set to start off full red and within an hour slowly adding in the white/blues and also fading out the white/blues back to full red 1hour before light off. I also never noticed my plant finishing or starting to bud any faster than normal.

 

[Icemud]

I have my mars pro set to start off full red and within an hour slowly adding in the white/blues and also fading out the white/blues back to full red 1hour before light off. I also never noticed my plant finishing or starting to bud any faster than normal.

The flower triggering/boosting has to do with only Far Red light 730nm, so most likely unless you were able to run only far red without any other colors/wavelengths then you may get the boosting effect. I'm still testing this theory however according to others I have spoken with who currently do this with far red, they all say it cuts about a week off flowering time and increases yield slightly, so I"m really excited to see if it works

 

[Icemud]

Day 31 flowering update


Well things are moving along quite nicely for the most part in the garden. I am really liking what I am seeing on the mystery bagseeds as they have only 1 main stem and weren't topped, so the buds are definitely about 3x as large as the other plants which have many tops and the energy is shared among them all. I wonder if there is an amount of topping where the benefits actually show efficiency, and if there is a point where too much is not good.. hmm. I doubt I will find any studies on it, but interesting idea/concept. What is the topping efficiency count for tops ???

Well most of the other plants are coming along nicely and all the new growth looks good despite the issues with overwatering and nutrient deficiencies. Hopefully that is all in the rearview now and we can hit the cruisecontrol and keep moving

Not much else to report on today, so how about some photos

 

[Kalimaki420]

I will give it a try got me a 35W IR bar for my perpetual grow.
Just as flower trigger as I cant change hours.

 

[Icemud]

I will give it a try got me a 35W IR bar for my perpetual grow.
Just as flower trigger as I cant change hours.

Sounds like a good plan. I have talked with a good handful of growers who use additional Far Red in their grows. The general agreed consensus for using it is 15 minutes after lights out, and 15 minutes before lights on. You should be able to put the bar on a separate timer and have no issues

Also, you could run it during your lights on period, for the emerson effect. This may increase stretch on some plants, but supposedly when red light and far red light both hit the plant at the same time, it drives photosynthesis harder than if you were to only have one or the other and adding up the rates.. its like a boost for photosynthesis

 

[jandre2k3]

Found you!

 

[Kalimaki420]

It is on a separate timer ands I stay at 15min before and after lights.
I got some stretchers and don't want any more atm.

I read that it helps speedup flowers in 5 instead 10 days after flip that would be very handy as I got 21 regulars and don't have enough space.
I don't like to sex and reveg but no other choice now when bad planning and 21 out of 21 come together.

 

[MrClone]

The far reds work 100% I do 13.5 on and 10.25 off with 0.25 at end of cycle with just far red 4x35 watt led's the ones that look like a heat lamp

 

[MrClone]

It is on a separate timer ands I stay at 15min before and after lights.
I got some stretchers and don't want any more atm.

I read that it helps speedup flowers in 5 instead 10 days after flip that would be very handy as I got 21 regulars and don't have enough space.
I don't like to sex and reveg but no other choice now when bad planning and 21 out of 21 come together.

From my experience.. All the red does is put your plants to sleep faster within 20 minutes or so allowing you to wake them up faster ( more light cycle ) It has not helped vs stretching.. As I use a plasma 31.02 model 270e 300 watt but also use the eye hortilux 460 nanometer florecent bulbs on a 4 foot T5 that is half above canopy and half below to also promote tighter/more stomata.

You can also LST in veg ( tie down every branch so that the plant gets light on all internode spots basically ) to help sex your plants faster

 

[Baked baker]

Hey Icemud! Finally reaching out haha (also, first 420mag post) your guides and logs been a huge help for me with my own growing. For so long i was stuck in LED hell not knowing what to look for. You helped me educate myself. In the end i got 2 BudMaster COBx6 in a 80x80cm space and couldnt be happier. Leaving lots of room to expand on in the future. I want to thank you for a great growlog and a good read.

Your seed project sounds really interesting and id like to be a part of it!
Either way thanks for all the invaluable info

 

[Billyjack]

It is on a separate timer ands I stay at 15min before and after lights.
I got some stretchers and don't want any more atm.

I read that it helps speedup flowers in 5 instead 10 days after flip that would be very handy as I got 21 regulars and don't have enough space.
I don't like to sex and reveg but no other choice now when bad planning and 21 out of 21 come together.

That is huge. I sure would like to see that tested with clones and a tight test environment. Picking up 5 days when time is money is a big deal.

 

[Billyjack]

Sounds like a good plan. I have talked with a good handful of growers who use additional Far Red in their grows. The general agreed consensus for using it is 15 minutes after lights out, and 15 minutes before lights on. You should be able to put the bar on a separate timer and have no issues

Also, you could run it during your lights on period, for the emerson effect. This may increase stretch on some plants, but supposedly when red light and far red light both hit the plant at the same time, it drives photosynthesis harder than if you were to only have one or the other and adding up the rates.. its like a boost for photosynthesis

I would like to see some real side by side tests with and without the red. Based upon where things are, do you plan on incorporating this into our future grows?

 

[Kalimaki420]

I don't have space and time to do a real side by side test.
But I grow perpetual and most from clone so I know my plants.
Just put 3 on 12/12 Saturday that needed 10 days to show flowers like most of my clones.

 

[Icemud]

Hey everyone!!!! Well I'm sort of sad to say that the ultimate wool over the sheeps eyes has been pulled and California passed prop 64 for legalization. I'm not thrilled, but I also have read and re-read the 62 pages of AUMA that is going to just completely mess up a good thing. Sad to say it, but I'm bummed.


Anyhow... on to my update...

Today makes day 40 of flowering from the flip to 12/12 and things are moving along. I am actually pretty disappointed in myself with this grow, and I put most of the blame on my soil. I think the ratios are way out of wack, since its 3 years old or so, recycled and I can tell when I put new clones in the soil, they immediately become severely deficient and ill, so I know that the soil is screwed up.

So because of this, its been a struggle with this grow keeping the plants happy, and what should be nice thick yummy buds right now is a bunch of tiny small under developed buds, with the exception of the 2 mystery plants grown from seeds. I wonder if having a tap root vs clones which dont have a tap root is the reason why the bagseed plants are doing extremely well, but all the plants from clone are not happy and underproducing.

Anyhow, I will be getting a new soil going very soon, and still deciding on which route to go, whether I replicate the original mix I had, or go with something like docbuds kit, or go with coco.... still up in the air.

So unfortunately this grow was supposed to test the effectiveness of the Far red Emerson panel from Budmaster, but I already know that I will not be getting good data from this grow to go off as I can already tell that the plants have been struggling through all of flowering, and that the yield is going to be very low. So I will use the Far Red on my next grow too, and hopefully with new soil things will start to look up again


With that being said, the 2 bagseed plants in front are looking great, and have nice large golfball round buds on them. The one on the left has a really nice tight bud structure, and the other is very hairy and less dense, and the one on the right has far more trichomes and much more of a pungent smell to it, vs the one on the right which has less of both. Still have no clue what the strain is, but looks like it will be fun to try

All the other plants are coming along slowly, and I have been giving them plain water and PH balanced feedings lately, giving extra to encourage runoff and hopefully help correct whatever is wrong with the soil. They smell great, and are developing trichomes nicely, but are just really small.


Well not much else to report on today so here are some pics

 

[Icemud]

If you haven't already, be sure to check out my feminized seed project, with just today announced, all new budmaster HPS LED grow lights

Icemud's How To Make Feminized Seeds Using Colloidal Silver

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Some grows ya win some ya don't ?

Well worth the effort tho & perhaps the soil well over done with time for a fresh batch ah.


Mmm BM HPS led sounds tasty to me & had a little look already nice spectrum i may add, but i'm a watt to watt kind of fellow when comparing led to hps etc to yield i'm afraid & seen some comparisons over the last several months it is one of those things really quality over yield on an individual choice or over electric bill in the long run.

 

[Icemud]

Some grows ya win some ya don't ?

Well worth the effort tho & perhaps the soil well over done with time for a fresh batch ah.


Mmm BM HPS led sounds tasty to me & had a little look already nice spectrum i may add, but i'm a watt to watt kind of fellow when comparing led to hps etc to yield i'm afraid & seen some comparisons over the last several months it is one of those things really quality over yield on an individual choice or over electric bill in the long run.

Yea, my 3 year old soil is finally ready to be trashed and ready for some fresh new stuff. Not to bad though as it saved me well over $500 in the time to reuse it, and for a while it seemed to get better with age, but the last probably 2 grows really showed the downfall of it. I'm definitely ready for some fresh mixed soil I'm sure my plants are too.

Yea LED's main advantage over HPS is the quality, as I have seen and also been involved with side by sides in perfectly identical environments and LED always has about 2-3% more THC. Yield comparisons really depend on the way the lights are use, environmental factors and such. With the company I work with, we just finished a 8 way, side by side experiment with 7 different LED spectrum and wattage combinations, against a 1000w DE HPS. The LED's blew the HPS out of the water yeilding about 1/2lb more than the HPS, and using 40% less energy. Now the lights we designed are for a specific use, therefore the results wouldn't be the same in a tent setting but it does show that if used correctly, LED does have an advantage in both yield and quality.

For my grows I personally haven't hit the HPS yields, however, I also scrogged those plants, had fresh soil, and different genetics so its very possible if given the exact same settings I too would have tied or beaten the HPS yields.

As LED's get more efficient with time, we will see even more people converting over and getting HPS type yields. HPS really hasn't improved a whole lot in the last 25 years, other than the new DE bulbs.

Overall its what works for each grower, and what they feel comfortable with that is the "best" option.

Good to have ya stop by Fuzzy! Hope all is well with you!