I'm the pest - Whats my problem?

[Smokemupm8]

Hey guys, yes im here again, trying to work out what the hell is happening!!
Yesterday i flushed my girl, as she was showing signs of maybe a Phos. Def. with somethin else..
The leaves are showing late stage Phos Def, getting dark blothes that curl the leave s upward. Also maybe slight Copper, cal/mag def or sumthin..
Today after her flush yesterday, more leaves are showing signs of Phos Def?? It was suggested that i give her some light nutes after the flush, but i didnt as also i was told to leave her to dry out again before feeding?
Here s the pics, 1 of the possible Phos. Def. and other of the rusty spots on sugar leaves among the buds..
Since she s been flushed, and IF she had a Phos Def, wouldnt it be better to give her some light P&K just in case this gets worse, as before i flushed it was only on a few small leaves.
Now, some small leaves are turning black, MAYBE FUNGAL ATTACK?? And coupled with these Phos symptoms are STRESSING ME OUT!! Ive over fed her and now ive probably locked out Phos, or somethin??
Heres the pics from today..

Possible Phos Def.symptom?

The rusty patches, not turning dark like the other leaf prob, so there are 2 things at hand..
THANK YOU FOR DROPPING BY AND ANY HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED!! Smokemup and Cindy..

 

[Jimmycricket]

Do all the leaves with the brown look like that or are any more spotted or polko dotted?

 

[Jimmycricket]

W/e you do dont freak out like last time and douse the whole plant with pyrethrin .

We can fix this I need more info and pics help too of other parts of the plants showing weird shit.

 

[Smokemupm8]

Mate, the rusty patches all look the same as this.. They dont seem necrotic or fungal, just like rusty patches, this is basically how all of the affected sugar leaves look. Id say theres maybe 5-10 i can see at most atm.. Its different from the possible Phos Def. Pics, as they darken, in blotches and then curl and die..
Some small growths on the branches that arent doing much are kinda going black -the small leafs, kinda looks fungal? But it usually starts out as a few dark spots, then spreads, gets worse and leaf ends up shrivelled and dark brown. Not like a natural deterioration..
All the rusty spots are on the small leaves among the buds, and only mainly on the left side of Cindy too?? Her right side all looks in better health, Well i mean, Overall looking at Cindy, She looks like she's Coming along ok, from middle up, but under the canopy down low where there are small bud shoots coming off, the first leaves on each branch are the ones being affected by the dark blotches and the older fan leaves, but some newr leaves in the middle are slowly doing this..
That is why im stressin a bit, I AM NEARLY 100% SURE there is a PHos. Def at hand, either locked out, or in feeding.. Also there maybe build up of nutes,salts, so maybe she just needs this flush, then when shes dry, a half strength dose of P&K, with some slight N and Seaweed extract.. Sound ok mate???
So yeah, there s no need for other pics as they show whats going on perectly, 1 prob has leaves darken and curl and the other has rusty spots forming on small sugar leaves. Fairly sparatic, not everywhere but there s more than yesterday, same a dark patches???
THANKS AGAIN JIMMY

 

[Jimmycricket]

You dont need to flush. Didnt you flush like 3 or 4 days ago?

The black leaves definitely looks like phos def.

The thing that most confuses me though is the brown spots I am 98% sure are boron. The reason it confuses me is while its easy to lock out phosphorous or lock out boron, its very hard to lock them both out.

 

[Jimmycricket]

Are you able to check your PH? do you have any boric acid at home?

 

[Smokemupm8]

You dont need to flush. Didnt you flush like 3 or 4 days ago?

The black leaves definitely looks like phos def.

The thing that most confuses me though is the brown spots I am 98% sure are boron. The reason it confuses me is while its easy to lock out phosphorous or lock out boron, its very hard to lock them both out.

Yeah mate, EXACTLY what i suspected bro!! Boron and Phosphorous.. Ive given trace elements other day before the flush, which has Boron in it.
I flushed her yesterday mate, but didnt give her anything after the flush.. I couldnt help it before, i trimmed all the burned leaves, except a few that have minimal damge so far, and i just gave her a light drink of water,4 lires with some Seaweed extract and 10ml of P&K..
Just enough to moisten the soil n hopefully give her some help? And tomorrow or next day i will see what she s doing and work out her feeding from there. Ill start at a quart or half strength at most for next couple weeks, and hoping she will bounce back??
Thanks buddy.. Glad your here!! Smoke $ Cindy

 

[Smokemupm8]

Are you able to check your PH? do you have any boric acid at home?

Mate think this may be part of the problem... JUST CHECKED SOIL PH and it @ 5.9/6.0, a bit low.. It has changed over the last couple weeks.
Ive lost my log book i had for Cindy which had EVRYTHING ive done to her in it, so i cant look back to see what ive added which may have altered this.. Gotta raise the PH by about .5 somehow??
DAMN IT!!!!

 

[Jimmycricket]

I mean it looks like boron and phos. but like I said that combo is just really unlikely. As their ph uptakes are not in conjunction with eachother.

But I say treat for boron immediately with a foliar and check your ph. We can go from there.

 

[Jimmycricket]

oh yeah its DEFINITELY phos deficiency then.

Its possible the brown is calcium (dosent exactly look like calcium, but the cal would certainly be locked out at 6ph). Calcium is the same color brown but its more spots, then it is square shapes near the veins.

 

[Jimmycricket]

First things first add some lime and lets get that PH higher.6.5-6.7 is good for soil because if it drops a bit it gos to like 6.2 then eventually rises back to 6.6ish or if it gos higher it gets to like 7ph then drops back to like 6.7

So yeah add some lime and then we can see how it gos. That would probably clear it all up.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

I like the title of thread & it really made me chuckle


I'm still very confident that its a straight foward P - Phosphorus def & that its quite normal at this stage of growth in flowering.


I believe in early to mid flowering plants may put on extra root growth this might be a hormonal thing which happens in flowering as roots are required to suck up nutrients for this rather nutrient intensive stage of plant developement, roots require phosphorus to grow 'n' develope hence the defeciency occuring.

I would be incline to add some form of P - phosphorus nutrient & apply 2 to 3 times a week at half strength of recommended dosage if worryed about nutrient burn etc etc for the next 7 to 14 days... yup its going to take a good few days to nip this problem in the bud so to speak


Lets twitter on about the recent flush !

I'm still wondering the logic behind this move to be honest ? & not entirely sure if this was the best move to be played at present time tho.

The act of flushing is to remove chemical salt build ups from soil or inert growing mediums as to prevent locks outs/toxicity/Ph problems from synthetic/chemical based nutrients !

1. If this was the case you made a good move.

Flushing the growing medium leachs/drains away almost all the chem salts/nutrients aviable in growing medium making it almost barren nutrient wise ! this is why we follow up with a half strength nutrient feed to remedie lack of nutrients aviable in recently flush growing medium.

2. If it was a straight foward nutrient def which i do suspect by info provided ! you have temporarily made the problem worse by flushing it all away... hence a plant that looks worse than it did before flush.


It will get better in time but may appear worse off for a short period of time intill P - phosphorus def has been tamed.

 

[GreeenFingers]

Hey Smokemup

That rusting on your leaves looks exactly like the beginning stages of the calcium deficiency Ms. Purple had but that was due to the Calcium being locked out because the PH of the water was too acidic and the runoff was at 6.0 so maybe your problem lies there ? It stopped as soon as the PH was corrected to about 6.6

I must state that it spread extremely quickly so it is something that should be sorted out as soon as possible.

Hope this helped somewhat

 

[Jimmycricket]

I would be incline to add some form of P - phosphorus nutrient & apply 2 to 3 times a week at half strength of recommended dosage if worryed about nutrient burn etc etc for the next 7 to 14 days... yup its going to take a good few days to nip this problem in the bud so to speak

Piff a lil nutrient burn is how you let the plants know you love them.

 

[Smokemupm8]

THank you all guys!! Much appreciated that you all took the time to drop in!! Cheers!
Well, in summary for all you guys, I am nearly 100% certain of Phos. Def., as with the little dose i gave after the flush, it didnt spread on any existing leaves that had blotches on em as it did before, usually the leaf is dead overnight where as now theyre staying green and still on her!!
Still some minor appearance of blotches, but i reckon ill get on track again shortly.. As for the Rusty patches, it may well be from incorrect PH of the soil.. Hang on, ill check it now... AWSUM - PH IS 6.2 NOW.. Must have been from the slight feed i give her before i tested the PH?
So thats a little better.. I think it is most likely a calcium Def, she s had some slight Cal/mag about 4 days ago, minimal tho..
Cindy most likely DID require a Flush Fuzzy, as i lost track of what i fed and when due to losing her book! And i had fed her some nutes in this time and it may well have caused build up/excess salts or sumthin, so flushing IMO wasnt too bad of an idea. But i did want to at least give her some Seaweed xtract and some P&K.
From now, ill be giving light nutes, probably every 3rd feed as water and the active nutrients in the soil hopefully will remain and be able to supply her still some nutrients to get by til her next feed.
Now, since her PH has risen abit and is at 6.2 currently, do you still suggest i add a little lime or some other product to raise the PH a bit more, or, Shouldnt it return to a safe level once the soils nutrient/acidity is in check??

THANKING YOU ALL GUYS... SMOKE $ CINDY

 

[GreeenFingers]

You should try to get that runoff Ph to about 6.5 as calcium in soil is locked out at 6.2

What is happening to Cindy is that your soil PH is too low and it is locking out Calcium, Magnesium and Phosphorous.

You should try to get that runoff PH to 6.5 as soon as possible or those nutrients will remain locked out, I added PH 7.0 to my soil and it balanced it back out but that was just me.

Have a look at this Chart to illustrate what I am talking about, the graph on the right is for soil

I hope this helps give you an understanding of exactly what is happening

 

[Smokemupm8]

GreenFingaz...
After the past couple days, my soils PH is now at 6.3 and seems to be stable atm.. I was going thru Cindy and noticed that where the rusty patches are the leaves are now showing lightening of colors on the affected leaves. Ive taken a few pics of whats going on..
But while i was removing my sticky traps to put new ones in, i was catching a few adult Fungus Gnats when i decided to check under the perlite i have on top of my soil.. And what did i find you ask??
Well NOTHING MORE THAN F/GNAT LARVAE!! These are meant to be bad for plants either eating roots or burrowing into thick stemmed plants ( such as mine ) Man, that pissed me off!! So i added anothe 1.5 inch of Perlite and i added way more sticky traps, and am going to place some potato wedges among the Perlite to hopefully draw the larvae to..
I cannot get any SNS natural products, I NEED A NATURAL WAY TO KILL F/Gnat LARVAE AMONG MY ROOTS WITHOUT HARMING MY PLANTS ROOTS.. Does anyone know of anyways i can use a natural product to wipe these out??? THANKS.
Here s some pics of what i THINK?? maybe Calc. Defic., ANY SUGGESTIONS APPRECIATED!!

 

[Jimmycricket]

diatomacious earth.

Also letting the soil dry out inbetween waterings.

Starting to get frosty there Smokey. I cant wait till my 7 little babies start to frost.

 

[Jimmycricket]

If you get the diatomacious earth make sure its food grade and not pool grade. We want it to kill bugs not kill you in the process

 

[Smokemupm8]

If you get the diatomacious earth make sure its food grade and not pool grade. We want it to kill bugs not kill you in the process

Jimmy... Im having trouble locating ANY D.E!! Ive spoken to some one here about them sending me some, but it will be $60 just for shipping..
Ive added 1.5 inches of more Perlite on top of what i had.. Sticky traps everywhere!!
I also bought some black PVC sheeting to tape over the top of the run off tray, in case any are coming in or getting in thru the base of her, which may be correct, IDK, i have 2 inch of pebbles on the inside of my pot before i put my soil in, so not sure if theyll try get in thru this space, so im sealing it off and MORE STICKY TRAPS underneath..
Was it you that suggested putting some Slices of Potato on my Perlite, or wedged into the perlite so i goes down a little to hopefully attract the larvae to it??
I need to find some kind of drench that i can run thru Cindy s rooting System to wipe em out without burning nutes or upsetting PH..
Also ive bought some BI-Carb Soda ( baking soda ) Hope this is the right stuff, to try increase waters PH??
Soils PH was at 6.3 today.. My run-off was low, so what does this mean? Does my soils run off have to be about 6.4 also and if so, and what do i use to change this??
Do i have to water her with a higher PH level in order for this to raise, if Run off s lower Ph than the soil?? And shouldnt the soils PH affect the plant, not so much the run off??
Also should i wait til she s due for her next feed before i attempt to add/alter anything to help her.. Phosphorous Damage seems fairly settled atm, not perfect, but yeah, i think some symptoms maybe from F/Gnat larvae??
THANKING YOU VERY MUCHLY BRO!!