Oh No - It's A Green Hole! - Reverse Thrusters! - Dammit - Too Late!

[Weaselcracker]

Alright. Thanks guys.
Flushing time it is then. Just have to shuffle a bunch of water around first. I'll leave them unfed after that, at least till tomorrow, while I decide how much to feed them. I think I'll feed them just a bit lower than they were getting before- as I 'know' that it's a pretty low dose already.

 

[SweetSue]

This is why we journal Weaselcracker. Others get to share the joy and help you work through the challenges. Great discussion guys.

Back to Callanetics. Nice to see you Weaselcracker.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Always lovely to have a visit from you, Sue.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Looks great. I love that"Guardian" wish I had one!

I love it too Pigeons. I hope you get one too. Then I'll finally be able to figure out what ppm you're using on your plants!

 

[OldMedUser]

When you do your flush pour the amount that you would water them with through as the last part of the flush. Have it mixed with half strength nutes. The nute jug should flush out the last of the flush water like I did with mine today. Used the shop vac with the crevice toll on it to suck the tray dry every 8 minutes. Worked like a hot-damn!.

I've been growing in ProMix for over 10 years and never had pH problems and I rarely checked even before I started using pH perfect nutes about a year ago and now never check pH. ProMix has dolomitic lime in it enough to keep it going right. I only ever used AN 3-part until I got the Sensi and Connie and I'm loving them in ProMix HP and DWC.

I don't do dirt growing at all. Sprout seeds and root clones in screened ProMix to make it really fine then plant the little ones in regular stuff.

Don't feel bad about your grow having probs WC. It helps everyone to see how various things go wrong and how they get fixed, or not. For every one of us that come in here there are a lot of lurkers reading and learning. Many times more than participate. That's why I go into a lot of detail about stuff. 1, I don't know the experience level of the person I'm replying too and 2, I know about all those lurkers who may know almost nothing and need that detail. Then they think WTF, I should join up and get help with my grow.

I have no money to further the cause but it cost me nothing but time to help others get things going and that helps in a tangible way IMO. Overgrow the government!

L8r

 

[Weaselcracker]

THE ROYAL FLUSH

OldMedUser you know that you get me excited with comments like that about overgrowing the government! Well, I think that's what we are collectively doing on 420. It's a joint effort, so to speak...

I'm not too worried about my grow looking a bit screwed up.
Sometimes it seems as if I will never figure it out -but I know that somehow it can be done. Funny how each one of us is is hard at work most of the time reinventing the wheel.
Actually, the journals I enjoy most are where unexpected screw ups happen and are dealt with. I have trouble following the journals where everything goes really well all the time, even though I admire the growers and the plants. It's just not as fun for me. How can I possibly relate? ha ha ha...
So hopefully this is fun for somebody out there too.

I just spent the last five hours flushing all my plants. It was a very interesting learning experience. First I did the Mama Thai. Put it up on top of my water barrel, on the lid I made for it, which doubles as a tray and run-off collector.

I poured a bunch of rain water through the MT. Water at PH 5.7 and PPM zero .
The water came out at about 450 ppm and pH of 6.7. The PPM steadily decreased as I poured more water through, but the pH more or less refused to budge. I decided I needed to run a higher ppm solution through it to get that pH moving. I took the first five gallon bucket of runoff from the floor and added pH minus until it was around 5 and ran it through. Ph came out at about 6.7. I PhD it down again and ran it through again with more or less the same result. Then I figured what the hell, and PH'd it down to 3.2. By this time the PPM of the runoff bucket was about 650 from all the PH crap I was dumping in there. Guess what? The run off was about 6.4/6.5

To double-check, I went around and tested the run-off of the other plants and they were all 6.4 to 6.7.

At this point I decided that -
The pH is probably already exactly where it is supposed to be, and I stopped worrying about the PH.

I flushed the crap out of all the plants. The White Widow run off was only 130 ppm. It's already had a lot of flushing in the last month. The Blueberry, which shows very little sign of any problems, was the highest at 750.ppm.
Keep in mind that these plants haven't been fed in 11 days and ppm of last feeding was about 850 if I remember right- for most plants anyway. WW and MT got 600 ppm last time.

I got them all running off at around 150 ppm or less. I used up over 100 gallons of rainwater. The last run through for each plant was plain rainwater at zero ppm and ph 5.7. It was three in the morning and I was getting a bit tired of Water World. I figured they would be OK for a night and I thought I would ask you what you thought I should do in terms of adding nutrients. Half strength is what I figured, but I will do it tomorrow night.

I'm pretty sure your diagnosis of salts build up is probably exactly right. Thanks!!!
I don't think I have particularly overfeeding them. I think I just haven't been watering with enough run off, and I should have given them all a flush when I flipped them, as I had a habit of doing in the past.
Of course- my theories, as always, could be -Wrong.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I fed all the flowering plants at 500ppm. That is about 8ml to the gallon of the bloom nutes (Power Flower), along with 1ml /gallon of cal/mag.
The feeding chart on the bottle reccomends- for mid-flowering - 25ml per gallon of the Power Flower, along with numerous 'optional' supplements. I've been maxing out at about 17ml/gallon of total nutes up to this point. Usually lower.
Maybe I will take the newest flowering Pineapple Chunk as a test case and try feeding it by the Botanicare schedule for this round, and see what happens. Kind of tired of pussy footing around with the nutes like this and still having nute burn. I do believe in feeding light, but it seems unfair that my plants should have to be so delicate and sensitive. I've gone by the bottle feeding schedule in the past and didn't have nute burn issues.etc etc blah blah blah.
Presumably the secret is in the flushing/runoff.
I'm using bigger pots than I used to in the past and probably haven't been putting enough water through them.

 

[Weaselcracker]

So I found time to put a few hours into playing catch-up tonight. Mostly mundane housekeeping.

The wonders of having a 420 journal are starting to dawn on me slowly. I can see how awesome it is going to be- to be able to look back through this later and see what went on. This is so much better than the notes I have scribbled down in my book.

I've been bumping into a lot of people lately talking about harvest windows, and trichome color. Amber in particular. SweetSue's and JoJo's journals in particular.
I've read a few different people now saying that a plant reaches its full potential when it has mostly amber trichomes. As well I have read several people saying that they don't generally get amber trichomes. I would be one of those people. I see the occasional amber, but usually my plants seem ready to harvest and possibly past ready, without having much amber to speak of.
Also I steer extremely clear of anything that has the term 'couch lock' attached to it.
I don't have a couch anyway, and I Really Really Really don't like being 'locked' to anything at all.
But after reading Sweet Sue's journal tonight I decided I would let this current Mama Thai run longer, and see if I can get some amber out of her. I'll take a few samples at different stages and see if I can figure anything out. So I'll have two science experiments going on. The PC being subjected to the recommended Botanicare feeding schedule, and the long running Mama Thai.

Here's a pic of the MT from tonight- showing her latest burst of foxtailing at 87 days flowering. I think maybe some of the foxtailing relates to the backbuilding I usually do to the MTs. They take very well to it, and grow large lumpy blobular buds, which seem to barely know which way is up. This MT is actually a reveg. The mother of Nanny.

I did a bunch of undergrowth clearing on the newest PC- the one I started flowering the day I started this journal. A bit sooner than I usually defol but she kind of grew out of control while I was away. The growing tips were/are very far above the screen and generally too tall. I managed to lower them a bit by doing a straight pull down towards the base with pipe cleaners.

This scrog method I'm doing here is what OMU would call 'not a real scrog'. There is very little weaving of the branches into the screen. Basically I have a plant which has a sort of candelabra shape and each branch goes up through a space in the screen.
I'm doing it this way because
- I don't have room in the veg room for screens so put the screen on when I move to flowering, and because
- I'm not around every day during the next three weeks to do the weaving during the stretch.

I have happened to be around in the past, and done it properly where I have woven the branches through the screen. It makes for more budsites and it is lower and more stable in the screen. But doing it this way works alright too. It's still spreading out a nice canopy under the light. I don't worry to much about it being 100% even. It's more unstable, especially if the tips get too long above the screen- as some of mine have. They're wanting to flop around

I went through the plants and tidied up things a bit and removed some of the damaged foliage.
Did a little more backbuilding on the MT where I could find pointy tips to snip. I may do the PCs too. But they grow so dense already that the risk of mold seems greater if I do.

I see now that having everything in a scrog makes it hard to get nice photos of the individual plants. It all just looks like a big green mass. I tried hard to get some individual pics tonight. It's cramped quarters too. I'll try to find a way to isolate plants for the purpose of getting decent pics.
Not much success tonight but here are a couple of the attempts.

The 'problem' White Widow

Side view of the Blueberry

I macheted the veg room plants down by 6" or so and fed them at 500 ppm Grow. Actually -3ml/gallon cal mag and about 8ml/gallon Grow.

I'll come and deal with the veg room soon. Repot some into 7 gallon pots and probably toss a strain or two. Still waiting to hear from the patients re the GSC cross. I didn't like it's effect when I tried it (though I love it's smell) but that was with just a quick dry sample. It will be cured enough to try again soon. Also the WW and the Blueberry I may or may not grow again depending what they say, and what I think of them. I think sativa is likely the only herb I want for myself. The MT lifts my spirits yet allows me to think very well, while still helping me to sleep at night.
I would like to grow a strain that would help with pain. One main reason I don't sleep at night. If anyone knows a good one let me know.
On that note I suppose I should try to sleep a little.

Geez I talk a lot...

Goodnight 420 friends.

 

[OldMedUser]

Putting in some serious labour on those girls WC!

I saw what you were saying about the harvest window and amber trichs. I've been taking mine according to how Jorge Cervantes instructs in my favorite grow bibles.

"Harvest when the majority of the glands are clear and a few glands have started to turn milky white. Once glands start to turn amber and later brown and get smaller; they are decomposing and the THC content diminishes."

In the bible he shows how labs tested the same pot with ripe, clear glands and later ones allowed to go amber and the data is clear. Wait for amber, you lose. Compared to what Cervantes knows about growing pot I'm a total nOOb

They also get knocked off much easier further diminishing the potency of your bud. Glands will continue to age and degrade once the pot is harvested and curing just the same as if still taking up space and using more power in the grow room so why wait for amber on the living plants if that's what you want. If you want the stone to be more sedative and mind-numbing then grow strains that have that kind of buzz.

Once buds are cured leave them in a sunny window and/or at higher temps to age the glands faster. As the pot sits around at room temp it more slowly degrades so keeping some in the freezer and some out all the time will let you compare as time passes so you can form a better idea of your own "personal" preferences. Age some at higher temps on the back of your TV or on top of the water heater to speed up the process. Some of those tiny ziplock bags would be great to experiment with.

That's the way, uhuh uhuh, I like it, uhuh uhuh.

L8r

 

[jojo677]

OMU, that is curious to me. Perhaps people grow longer and get more ambers so their buds will gain more weight while aging?

I've always read to harvest when you "like what you see". They then say to dry and cure in a dark, cool place. Why don't they mention that if you leave it in the light, more of the THC will age and amber? I've always wondered about that. On my most recent harvest, many of the glands were cloudy/clear before drying and now they are golden. They were kept in the dark, at moderate temperature (75F) for drying. I'm learning a lot of good info from you! +reps

Thanks for prompting this good trichome conversation Weasel! I took your advice and read through SweetSue's last few pages and between your journal and that one I feel like I've learned more about trichomes in the last day than I have the last year! +reps (you're past due)

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks JoJo! I feel like I know more, yet less at the same time... The usual story.
My only source of written info on growing herb, before my area emerged enough from the Bronze Age to get limited internet service and I joined 420, was an old copy of Cervantes' Marijuana Horticulture. I found it about ten years ago tucked up on top of a support beam in the attic of a house I rented, covered in dust.
I read that book cover to cover many many times and a lot of the pages have fallen out now.
Before I joined 420 I thought amber was a bad thing. On this forum it seemed like most people were recommending 10-30% amber.
A hell of a lot has changed since that book was written and I don't know what is outdated and what isn't. I'm pretty sure some of that grow bible info was wrong. Like he says that taking clones of clones results in genetic degradation each time you do it. Which I'm pretty sure isn't true. I wasn't sure how much of it to take as gospel. Probably it's been updated since. Most people seem to have great respect for Jorge.
I may be drifting off the point a little. If there is a point, it would be that I feel a bit like a blank slate re my knowledge of trichome color harvesting. Ie- I have absolutely no idea who or what is right at this point.
There was a fellow- one of those 'former members' of 420 who sold to dispensaries. He got most of his product tested and there is a thread in here of his strain test results. For example, he tested washed bud samples against unwashed samples (no difference). I wish he was around now he'd probably know the answer to this. Not that I have any reason to believe that you and Cervantes are wrong, OMU.
I have a feeling that this sativa will never get to amber anyway. Even if some disaster doesn't get in the way of that happening- I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to hold out that long. I think that, before I see amber, the plant is going to start going backwards from it's peak wonderfulness, and I will chop it. Not sure about that either though

My buds start to get cloudy trichomes quite a while before I would ever consider harvesting them. Usually by the time when I'm fretting over whether to harvest or not, I have mostly cloudy- along with a bunch of clear ones.

Thanks for the info on temps and their effect on the colors OMU.
I'm nearly positive now that your advice about the nutrient salts buildup was spot on. I won't be the least bit surprised when I find out that you are right about everything you've said about the trichomes too. I have a fetish for learning everything the hard way.

I so much appreciate all you guys dropping by my journal. It's been a little quiet lately here, and on 420. Maybe people are busy with their last few weeks of summer. I'm also pretty sure that a whole bunch more have gone and blinked out of existence on 420, as is constantly happening around here.

 

[TheRoach]

Hey Weaselcracker, I will be up to date with your journal soon. Internet connection has been out for a while.
I know what you mean about the plants getting almost ripe and getting back to vegging. Will be back online soon hopefuly, I want to check all the pictures in this thread
I have to go back to hunting/gathering now, regards!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey Roach. Lovely to have you drop in. I figured it's your internet connection keeping you quiet these days. Or so I hoped. Do come back, and let me know what you are hunting and gathering over there.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Managed to steal quite a few more hours work in this evening. Things are going to get hectic in life soon enough so I'm always trying to do what I can when I can.

FLOWERING ROOM

Everything looks very healthy and perky since the flush. Of course the previous damage shows, and beyond the messed up WW, and somewhat less messed up MT, most plants have mild signs of nute burn at the tips. But there is a vibrant and clean look to them after the flush and definitely no signs of the previous problems worsening.
Thank you for your help, OldMedUser!
Your advice seems to be right on the money.

Looking at the grow I'm struck by how big of a jungle it really is. I didn't really mean to end up with this much bud. Of course...-I haven't ended up with much bud yet! But, if I make it to harvest, I'll have surpassed my quota somewhat. I may shut one light down again, or, more likely, start up some more long flowering sativas if I am to continue using both lights. With that in mind, I have a Thai Stick seedling growing, which may fit the bill if it's female.
The picture doesn't do the reality justice. The right side of my grow, which is mostly the three Pineapple Chunks, along with the Mama Thai at front left, is a dense sticky jungle. The flushing episode involved a certain amount of wear and tear, and now budding branches have flopped over everywhere, and are buried under each other in sticky piles. I tried to prop them up without much success. This is because the branches are about 12" above the screen- too long.

It's a bit shocking to me that this relatively small space is so crowded full of bud.
I've never been one to count my chickens before they hatch. And honestly, I don't even care to spend much time counting the ones that do hatch.
For myself I have a few ounces from Nanny, which is curing now. So I'll be ok for a little while, and I am mainly just trying to get these plants to grow well. Whatever happens after that is just icing on the cake. If they all die of the plague tomorrow I'll be sad- but it will be just one more learning experience in a long line of them, believe me. Only -more embarrassing now that you guys are watching!

VEG ROOM

I went through the veg room yesterday and axed two more plants- a Mama Thai- the only surviving clone of Nanny, and one of the two GSC crosses I had.

Nanny's revegged mother is the MT I have flowering currently. She hasn't shown any nanners- so maybe it was lighting problems after all. But I needed the space, and didn't trust the Nanny pheno -so she was axed.

I found a pipe cleaner on her stem which I'd used to lash together a split quite a while ago, and forgotten about. Must remember to check these things once in a while...

I have one remaining GSC cross. I was going to axe her too if the patients didn't like her- but I got word that they love her. So she lives.
Today I repotted the remaining six large veg plants into 7 gallon pots and did a bunch of LST to them. I know it's not pretty- this LST and Scrog business. I'm starting to miss growing plants the natural way, for their photogenic beauty

 

[Weaselcracker]

CLONES

Ok, I did another round of clones this evening. My intention was to continue further testing of the 'air bubble theory'. Test of the Air Bubble Theory - Cloning experiment

I filled up a fresh tub of coco for the occasion. First off- I rinsed the coco thoroughly, then let it drain for a while before filling the small tub with it. The ppm of the coco runoff tested at a high point of 130. I rinsed it till it was below 30.

I took four cuttings from each of the five different strains/phenos I currently have vegging. Two cuttings of each batch of four went immediately into water, and two were laid out exposed to the air.
Originally I meant to try some variety, and leave some cuttings exposed for ten minutes, some for 30, and maybe some for 60. But somehow it took me over half an hour from start to finish just to take the cuttings and get them organized. The cuttings first taken were exposed for 36 minutes and the last ones- 22 minutes

I figure- what I am trying to achieve here -is to see whether I need to rush through things in fear of air bubbles or not. If I can safely leave cuttings exposed to air for a half hour without air bubbles- that's all I really need to know.

Cuttings were, on average, about 5-6" long - scraped gently at the cut end- dipped in cloning gel and put in rockwool cubes. The cubes were then put into the coco, which should keep them at the proper moisture for long enough to root, if they're going to. Then as before- stuck in the corner of my veg room under a 24 hour cfl.

There were a couple surprise additions to the original 5 varieties.

First was the realization that my Mama Thai clone, which I had axed yesterday, was still laying outside in the bushes. I had a change of heart and went and took two cuttings off her. She had been laying exposed for 20 hours- in rainy humid conditions.


Next was the discovery of a container with a few cuttings in water which I had saved from the newer White Widow plant, when I trimmed the undergrowth from her two days ago. So I stuck 3 of them in rockwool cubes as well.

I'll keep an eye on them and post the results. I'm not at the grow every day so I don't expect to always be there the day roots show- but I think I'll be around enough to get the general idea of what is happening with the timing.

 

[Pigeons420]

Wow! Bloody awesome Weasel!!!

 

[OldMedUser]

I don't envy you all that trimming but it's nice to have an abundance.

Cool clone experiment. I try to do all the cleaning up of extra nodes and leaf trimming before taking the cutting off the plant then immediately dipping in gel after a quick scrape and split of the stem. Then a dip into powder, tapping off the excess before dropping into my pre-made holes and watering in. Interested to see how the ones you left out for a bit do.

L8r

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks for the kind words, Pigeons and OldMed!
OMU I find trimming is definitely work for me too. Sometimes I feel like I've been run over by a car after a long night trimming. I always have mixed feelings about a good harvest. This batch of plants will be a big job, it looks like.
A few pics tonight and bit more rambling.
I fed the flowering girls in varying amounts. Except the Mama Thai which I flushed.
I gave the new Pineapple Chunk, which I'm going to attempt to feed by the Botanicare schedule, a solution of 20ml of bloom/gallon, along with 3ml/gallon CalMag. The schedule actually calls for 25ml Bloom; but that seems so high that I chickened out. Ppm was 1110.
Here are some pics of the Mama Thai. She's done 92 flowering days so far.

I thinking the experiment of leaving this MT to attempt to turn amber is not going to get far. She looks suspiciously like she's starting to show reveg signs- especially in this corner here.

I flushed her and will keep and eye on her for the next week or two, but it looks to me like I'll be harvesting her pretty soon, or at least most of her. I like science experiments and everything- but I don't want to stand by while she obviously loses quality.

A couple of the Pineapple Chunks.

The messed up old White Widow

The new White Widow, looking sprightly. New Pineapple Chunk in behind. A bit of the blueberry on left

Left side of room- showing the middle where the four screens meet. The corners meet just past the red tape you can see peeking out.

Old WW in front/bottom. New WW on right.
Blueberry on left, and new PC showing a bit at top.


CLONES

Ok - not much to report here, of course, after three days - but I'm tossing in a pic of the cuttings to show how they look now. Cloning this way I do not have to use a dome, mist, or (I think) water for the duration. I may sprinkle the top of the rockwool at some point if it gets too dry. We will see. Anyway- they're mostly looking happy. One of the cuttings (back right corner) from the Mama Thai looks sick so she's getting tossed out.the cutting was one of the ones taken the 'regular' way- but that MT plant was rescued from the garbage pile, so was pretty beat up to begin with.

So sleepy I can barely prop my eyes open so it's bedtime for me. Thanks for watching. Bye for now guys

 

[mussh]

 

[Pigeons420]

The novelty of trimming and manicuring wears off rather quickly. Somewhere around harvest number 3.