Quantum board help

[Tead]

they have the same light output as HLG's boards.

Heatsink is the primary source of cooling for all LED lights

I'm gonna rough up your words some PGR.... I'm a stickler for technical accuracy... sorry.

Technically, heatsinks provide no cooling at all. They provide a much better method of dissipating the heat by spreading it thru a chunk of metal and blowing air over the chunk of metal. While one could say that heatsinks allow cooling, one cannot say that heatsinks cool anything by themselves. Without airflow, heatsinks do nothing but add weight.

Does Meanwell make boards? I've not seen them. Most of them seem to be Samsung.

 

[DrDoob]

I run my 132s without a heatsink, but the 288s all have heat syncs and a 4” fan blowing on them. I don’t really know how necessary they are but they makes me sleep better at night. I spent the money to be recouped over many grows so burning them out early seems wasteful.

 

[Tead]

I spent the money to be recouped over many grows so burning them out early seems wasteful.

Now there's some solid logic that nobody can poke at!

 

[PurpleGunRack]

Without airflow, heatsinks do nothing but add weight.

This is not true, the heat is spread over a larger mass/surface area and as long as the temperature around the unit and heatsink is lower it means that it cools the unit a lot more than the unit would on its own.
-See passive cooling.

Cooling or dissapation - no matter how you put it, it won't be worthwhile/possible to cool diode heavy PCBs without heatsink.

Try running a 288 @ 135w without heatsink, baby WILL die FAST

Does Meanwell make boards? I've not seen them. Most of them seem to be Samsung.

???


I'm talking about the company called Atreum, they make boards similar to HLG's at lower prices.

Most of the popular board style PCB's use the Samsung lm561C or lm301b diodes.

MW make power supplies and such.

 

[Edzzed]

This is not true, the heat is spread over a larger mass/surface area and as long as the temperature around the unit and heatsink is lower it means that it cools the unit a lot more than the unit would on its own.
-See passive cooling.

Cooling or dissapation - no matter how you put it, it won't be worthwhile/possible to cool diode heavy PCBs without heatsink.

Try running a 288 @ 135w without heatsink, baby WILL die FAST




???


I'm talking about the company called Atreum, they make boards similar to HLG's at lower prices.

Most of the popular board style PCB's use the Samsung lm561C or lm301b diodes.

MW make power supplies and such.

Atreum nor HLG make the boards. A company called Shenzhen Meijiu lighting company ltd in China ,anufactures the boards. Atreum and HLG contract them to supply lights and and what not. Most likely procured through Alibaba. That's all speculation but I could order the same stuff but more than likely at a higher price as not buying in bulk.

 

[legendpenrose]

What model are those and what size tent?

It's a 1m X 1m And they are "invisible sun ISH265PRO LM301B" Boards

 

[HiddenGrow]

Good Info here. I was thinking of making a QB setup for a 5x5 tent. I wonder what would be efficient to run for the 40-50 w per sqft.

 

[Tead]

???


I'm talking about the company called Atreum, they make boards similar to HLG's at lower prices.

Most of the popular board style PCB's use the Samsung lm561C or lm301b diodes.

MW make power supplies and such.

I was responding to your words....

they have the same light output as HLG's boards.

Your words seemed to indicate that HLG (Meanwell's Horticultural Lighting Group) made light boards. I was unaware of this and was asking about them.

This is not true, the heat is spread over a larger mass/surface area and as long as the temperature around the unit and heatsink is lower it means that it cools the unit a lot more than the unit would on its own.
-See passive cooling.

Cooling or dissapation - no matter how you put it, it won't be worthwhile/possible to cool diode heavy PCBs without heatsink.

A chunk of metal provides no cooling. It enables more efficient heat transfer between the air and the boards by providing a heat 'bufffer' or 'sink'. The fins and increased surface area allow the chunk of metal to transfer that heat into the air more efficiently.

I'll stand comfortably on my previous technically accurate words....

Technically, heatsinks provide no cooling at all.

I wouldn't normally argue the point, but it's a post about Qboards... I feel we should be technically accurate. You don't want some newbie hooking up their new lights thinking they didn't need to blow air over them because "heatsinks cool your lights"... and when we're not technically correct, we run those sorts of risks.

And, of course, you're very spot on.... no matter how we put it, it would be crazy to run large ones without a heatsink.

That's all speculation but I could order the same stuff but more than likely at a higher price as not buying in bulk.

I hit Shenzhen Meijiu lighting directly thru Alibaba and paid a touch over $400 for 600w kits. Super happy with my deal. I know it can be scary to deal with an overseas purchase, but it was quite easy and cut my lighting costs in half.

 

[HiddenGrow]

I was responding to your words....



Your words seemed to indicate that HLG (Meanwell's Horticultural Lighting Group) made light boards. I was unaware of this and was asking about them.



A chunk of metal provides no cooling. It enables more efficient heat transfer between the air and the boards by providing a heat 'bufffer' or 'sink'. The fins and increased surface area allow the chunk of metal to transfer that heat into the air more efficiently.

I'll stand comfortably on my previous technically accurate words....


I wouldn't normally argue the point, but it's a post about Qboards... I feel we should be technically accurate. You don't want some newbie hooking up their new lights thinking they didn't need to blow air over them because "heatsinks cool your lights"... and when we're not technically correct, we run those sorts of risks.

And, of course, you're very spot on.... no matter how we put it, it would be crazy to run large ones without a heatsink.



I hit Shenzhen Meijiu lighting directly thru Alibaba and paid a touch over $400 for 600w kits. Super happy with my deal. I know it can be scary to deal with an overseas purchase, but it was quite easy and cut my lighting costs in half.

Hi Tead! What coverage does your 600w kit do for ya? I've been giving myself a headache looking into pretty much every website that sells a kit. I was a little skeptical about alibaba But I hear great things on other forums about people geting their boards directly.
Atreum right now is pretty much sold out of every item but their drivers.

I am so Happy I found this. I'm looking into the QB304s and the QB132s for a 5x5 flowering area. With all this tech it's easy to get confused on what would work best and what would be overkill. I've been hearing too many different opinions on how much power you would want for your space. 35-50w per sq ft seems to be what some people say but isn't that HID numbers? 1250w sounds epic but would be a hell of a startup cost. The 132s have a deal of 4 for $99 From HLG's website.

So! My idea of a build would be
16 QB132s 3000k - $400
2 HLG-480H-C1750B - $300
It would probably be a Close Encounter Level light. I think I would rather save a hassle of finding a frame and buy two 600w kits. lol there goes a day of staring at light specs and being picky. It would be awesome to have access to the new tech and just build a new light every year.

 

[PurpleGunRack]

Atreum nor HLG make the boards. A company called Shenzhen Meijiu lighting company ltd in China ,anufactures the boards. Atreum and HLG contract them to supply lights and and what not. Most likely procured through Alibaba. That's all speculation but I could order the same stuff but more than likely at a higher price as not buying in bulk.

No

They made a copy of the QB ''invented'' by HLG.

The HLG 288 V2 is made by Samsung, the V1 3000K is/was made by HLG in the US.

Not sure about Atreum, but the diode reels are bought from a US wholesale company and as far as I know the boards are assembled in the US, seems counter productive to source diodes made in China in the US and send them back to China for assembly.

Your words seemed to indicate that HLG (Meanwell's Horticultural Lighting Group) made light boards. I was unaware of this and was asking about them.

You've got some things mixed up here.

HLG, Horticultural Lighting Group is a company that makes and sells board type PCBs, kits and plug and play lamps.

Mean Well HLG is a series of LED power supplies (drivers) produced by the company Mean Well.

Horticultural Lighting Group and Mean Well are not related companies, HLG use Mean Well's HLG series drivers in their lamps/kits.

You don't want some newbie hooking up their new lights thinking they didn't need to blow air over them because "heatsinks cool your lights"... and when we're not technically correct

Heatsinks cools your lights, it's just that simple and you're incorrect in stating that they don't.

The heatsinked boards/strips/COBs DO NOT need air blowing on them. Full stop.

I've been running QB's for more than a year without any fans blowing on the lamps and I've been running diode heavy Samsung strips on aluminium U-channels for 6 moths with no fans blowing on the lamps.

My strips stay below the Nominal TC of 55° C after running for 24 hours with no air blowing on them.
When I measured without heatsink they reached the Liftetime TC of 80° C after a few minutes, so I turned them off and jumped to the conclusion that heatsinks cools the strips...

Hi Tead! What coverage does your 600w kit do for ya? I've been giving myself a headache looking into pretty much every website that sells a kit. I was a little skeptical about alibaba But I hear great things on other forums about people geting their boards directly.
Atreum right now is pretty much sold out of every item but their drivers.

I am so Happy I found this. I'm looking into the QB304s and the QB132s for a 5x5 flowering area. With all this tech it's easy to get confused on what would work best and what would be overkill. I've been hearing too many different opinions on how much power you would want for your space. 35-50w per sq ft seems to be what some people say but isn't that HID numbers? 1250w sounds epic but would be a hell of a startup cost. The 132s have a deal of 4 for $99 From HLG's website.

So! My idea of a build would be
16 QB132s 3000k - $400
2 HLG-480H-C1750B - $300
It would probably be a Close Encounter Level light. I think I would rather save a hassle of finding a frame and buy two 600w kits. lol there goes a day of staring at light specs and being picky. It would be awesome to have access to the new tech and just build a new light every year.

It won't work!!!

That driver is not powerful enough to light 8 boards.

36V * 8 boards = 288V, the driver supplies a max Voltage of 274V.

And keep in mind that you need a potentiometer/controller to dim the type B drivers.

I would do 4 boards on a MW HLG 240h - 36A (parallel connection) and make 4 lamps as either rows or squres of 4 boards. Each of these 4 board lamps would draw a max of around 260w.

If you grow ScroG, SoG, or short/medium topped/trained plants that board type will be just fine, if you grow tall trees you want something that has a deeper canopy penetration.

You have full access to most of the newest tech if you go full DIY, but it takes some reading and test building to get it right

 

[Edzzed]

Consider me more educated than yesterday.

 

[HiddenGrow]

It won't work!!!

That driver is not powerful enough to light 8 boards.

36V * 8 boards = 288V, the driver supplies a max Voltage of 274V.


And keep in mind that you need a potentiometer/controller to dim the type B drivers.


I would do 4 boards on a MW HLG 240h - 36A (parallel connection) and make 4 lamps as either rows or squres of 4 boards. Each of these 4 board lamps would draw a max of around 260w.


If you grow ScroG, SoG, or short/medium topped/trained plants that board type will be just fine, if you grow tall trees you want something that has a deeper canopy penetration.



You have full access to most of the newest tech if you go full DIY, but it takes some reading and test building to get it right

Haha This is just another thing I overlooked. Lets just say that was just a rough idea. I thought about the added potentiometer, but didnt add it since it was an after thought.
But my question is still what is overkill for an area? The HLG 550 480w is for a 4'x4' setup approx 30w per sq ft. I feel that more Watts per sq ft would just be a coverage preference.

 

[Deltatrichs]

Haha This is just another thing I overlooked. Lets just say that was just a rough idea. I thought about the added potentiometer, but didnt add it since it was an after thought.
But my question is still what is overkill for an area? The HLG 550 480w is for a 4'x4' setup approx 30w per sq ft. I feel that more Watts per sq ft would just be a coverage preference.

 

[Chris Scorpio]

Hi Tead! What coverage does your 600w kit do for ya? I've been giving myself a headache looking into pretty much every website that sells a kit. I was a little skeptical about alibaba But I hear great things on other forums about people geting their boards directly.
Atreum right now is pretty much sold out of every item but their drivers.

I am so Happy I found this. I'm looking into the QB304s and the QB132s for a 5x5 flowering area. With all this tech it's easy to get confused on what would work best and what would be overkill. I've been hearing too many different opinions on how much power you would want for your space. 35-50w per sq ft seems to be what some people say but isn't that HID numbers? 1250w sounds epic but would be a hell of a startup cost. The 132s have a deal of 4 for $99 From HLG's website.

So! My idea of a build would be
16 QB132s 3000k - $400
2 HLG-480H-C1750B - $300
It would probably be a Close Encounter Level light. I think I would rather save a hassle of finding a frame and buy two 600w kits. lol there goes a day of staring at light specs and being picky. It would be awesome to have access to the new tech and just build a new light every year.

16 x 75w = 1200 total max watts
12 x 75w = 900 total max watts

Why 16bds with only the two drivers
Also get the 480h-c2100b since the qb132 bds use 2000ma and then u can run the bds at 80-90% if u want like I do

I love my qb132 bds. I have 6, soon to be 8 in my 4x4 tent. The 6 did fantastic last grow and the two more bds will help fill in the center a bit

Nice thing with the 132s is they can go as close as 6" away and still get fantastic penetration down in the canopy

 

[Deltatrichs]

It won't work!!!

That driver is not powerful enough to light 8 boards.

36V * 8 boards = 288V, the driver supplies a max Voltage of 274V.


And keep in mind that you need a potentiometer/controller to dim the type B drivers.


I would do 4 boards on a MW HLG 240h - 36A (parallel connection) and make 4 lamps as either rows or squres of 4 boards. Each of these 4 board lamps would draw a max of around 260w.


If you grow ScroG, SoG, or short/medium topped/trained plants that board type will be just fine, if you grow tall trees you want something that has a deeper canopy penetration.



You have full access to most of the newest tech if you go full DIY, but it takes some reading and test building to get it right

So, once you get the driver combination all squared away - do you think 16 boards is overkill for a 5 x 5?

I too am in the process of gathering facts for an Led upgrade - currently running two 600 hps in a 5x5 tent. Love the lights, but heat is an issue. Let's just say that running an a/c in the middle of winter isn't exactly stealth.

Great thread by-the-way.

 

[Icetech]

Not sure if HLG is a sponsor here.. but the best advice i got was to get kingbrite qb's off alibaba. the 250w was $100 less shipped, same exact LED's the samsung 301's.. amazing deal here in 5 days. I wanted to buy HLG, but they never responded to emails for me.. ended up saving a ton

 

[Edzzed]

I bought some strips instead of a board from the big auction site, If you enter
Quantum Board V2 Sun Strip 96 Diode

It will bring up 3 listings for various color temps. I bought 6 of the 2700K and 6 of the 3500K. I also plan to run two drivers and think HLG-240-24a will work for each set of 6. I know I could run one driver but read on HLG that they do not advise running different color temps with the same driver. I might even get 6 of the 6500K for vegging but don't know yet. I think I can take these strips and mount them on angle aluminum much like a clock since I have 12 on the way. That should equal HLG 550 V2 since there are the same amount of diodes (1152) and they are also LM301B which is what HLG has. nm Strips were 22 a piece and drivers are about 60 a piece. Then add in some solid core wire and aluminum angle or c channel and price is not too bad for what should be a good light build.

 

[Icetech]

I bought some strips instead of a board from the big auction site, If you enter
Quantum Board V2 Sun Strip 96 Diode

It will bring up 3 listings for various color temps. I bought 6 of the 2700K and 6 of the 3500K. I also plan to run two drivers and think HLG-240-24a will work for each set of 6. I know I could run one driver but read on HLG that they do not advise running different color temps with the same driver. I might even get 6 of the 6500K for vegging but don't know yet. I think I can take these strips and mount them on angle aluminum much like a clock since I have 12 on the way. That should equal HLG 550 V2 since there are the same amount of diodes (1152) and they are also LM301B which is what HLG has. nm Strips were 22 a piece and drivers are about 60 a piece. Then add in some solid core wire and aluminum angle or c channel and price is not too bad for what should be a good light build.

Damn good deal.. i kind of want to get a second one incase mine dies in the middle of a grow.. then i would be screwed, might look into doing that

 

[PurpleGunRack]

So, once you get the driver combination all squared away - do you think 16 boards is overkill for a 5 x 5?

I too am in the process of gathering facts for an Led upgrade - currently running two 600 hps in a 5x5 tent. Love the lights, but heat is an issue. Let's just say that running an a/c in the middle of winter isn't exactly stealth.

Great thread by-the-way.

No, not overkill, but above the ''minimum'' of 800 diodes per m2

Not sure if HLG is a sponsor here.. but the best advice i got was to get kingbrite qb's off alibaba. the 250w was $100 less shipped, same exact LED's the samsung 301's.. amazing deal here in 5 days. I wanted to buy HLG, but they never responded to emails for me.. ended up saving a ton

Kingbrite is a good way to get cheap parts

I bought some strips instead of a board from the big auction site, If you enter
Quantum Board V2 Sun Strip 96 Diode

It will bring up 3 listings for various color temps. I bought 6 of the 2700K and 6 of the 3500K. I also plan to run two drivers and think HLG-240-24a will work for each set of 6. I know I could run one driver but read on HLG that they do not advise running different color temps with the same driver. I might even get 6 of the 6500K for vegging but don't know yet. I think I can take these strips and mount them on angle aluminum much like a clock since I have 12 on the way. That should equal HLG 550 V2 since there are the same amount of diodes (1152) and they are also LM301B which is what HLG has. nm Strips were 22 a piece and drivers are about 60 a piece. Then add in some solid core wire and aluminum angle or c channel and price is not too bad for what should be a good light build.

The driver is fine and won't overpower the strips.

I wouldn't worry about mixing CCTs on one driver, the voltage difference is very small, if any.
People have been mixing CCT with COBs and Strips for years and I haven't heard about any issues.

You should have looked into the original Samsung strips in stead of these slightly dodgy ebay ones, same price and one is made by the best the other by, who knows

I wouldn't go over 5000K for veg, personally I would use 4000K for a veg only room, based purely on the fact that 4000K has the highest efficacy compared to its (assumed) photosynthetical efficiency AKA little enough phosphor coating on the diode for it to be highly electrically efficient and a well mixed spectrum with enough red for it to create enough photosynthesis for it to be worth the loss in red from the lower CCTs and the loss in efficacy from the higher CCTs.


From LM301b datasheet:

You can see that 4000K - 6500K is in the same efficacy range, and that they have the same (max) relative intensity in the blue wavelenghts with a lot more green, yellow and red in 4000K than the higher CCTs.

Like a clock? So in a circle?

 

[Edzzed]

Like a clock? So in a circle?

No, not overkill, but above the ''minimum'' of 800 diodes perKingbrite is a good way to get cheap parts The driver is fine and won't overpower the strips.

I wouldn't worry about mixing CCTs on one driver, the voltage difference is very small, if any.
People have been mixing CCT with COBs and Strips for years and I haven't heard about any issues.

You should have looked into the original Samsung strips in stead of these slightly dodgy ebay ones, same price and one is made by the best the other by, who knows

I wouldn't go over 5000K for veg, personally I would use 4000K for a veg only room, based purely on the fact that 4000K has the highest efficacy compared to its (assumed) photosynthetical efficiency AKA little enough phosphor coating on the diode for it to be highly electrically efficient and a well mixed spectrum with enough red for it to create enough photosynthesis for it to be worth the loss in red from the lower CCTs and the loss in efficacy from the higher CCTs.


From LM301b datasheet:

You can see that 4000K - 6500K is in the same efficacy range, and that they have the same (max) relative intensity in the blue wave lengths with a lot more green, yellow and red in 4000K than the higher CCTs.


Like a clock? So in a circle?

Yup, Like a circle in the tent or done like spokes on a wagon wheel.. I looked at the boards and read complaints on how the sides of the tent are lacking in light. i figure a circular pattern with strips would be a better option for spacing the light out. And although I could get away with one driver for all the lights (I agree , You know more than I about this subject.) If that one driver fails I am hooped. But two drivers and I only lose half my lights till I can get a new driver under warranty. One driver is also more expensive than two for whatever reason. Looking at 130 for a HLG480-24a while two HLG240-24a are 47 a piece. All drivers being Meanwell. Hopefully the diodes do well, The seller does give a guarantee but guarantees are only as good as the company behind it. Fortunately our fridge guarantee expired before Sears.