The Proper Way To Water A Seedling In A Large Final Container

[MedicalMe]

Thanks Em. This is perfect timing - just starting three new autos in their final pots! And i just fixed my watering....

I have to add my thanks as well, especially as someone who grows autos. Autos can be tricky at first (NO margin for error) and I think this will help those who’ve decided on autos. I’ve grown autos for a couple of years now, but always inside - except with the crop I just started, I decided to use my greenhouse. I did this last year at this time and lost all four ladies. Now I know why. Instead of temps in the 70s in my grow room, the greenhouse hit 107 degrees F today! Gotta pay a lot more attention to my watering or lose this crop as well. Soil drying out in a hurry. Just applied some water. The girls thanked me. They also thanked Emmie.

 

[Abstrakt]

Go to the first post in this thread.

Go to the first post in this thread.

More or less wondering if it is significant. Having a grow off this summer and want to beat them. Are watering techniques alone helping to gain advantage? My competitor enjoys watering every night and morning in small amounts no matter what the day. It seems like they would be overwatering but they look super healthy. And they're just about the same size as mine.

 

[Doctor Trevor]

From what I've read and learned so far is that the soil needs to dry out between watering.

 

[Emilya Green]

More or less wondering if it is significant. Having a grow off this summer and want to beat them. Are watering techniques alone helping to gain advantage? My competitor enjoys watering every night and morning in small amounts no matter what the day. It seems like they would be overwatering but they look super healthy. And they're just about the same size as mine.

Your friend is running his grow as if were a hydro grow, and probably not using soil. He could be using aerated water so that the oxygen deprivation problem doesn't happen on the lower roots, no matter how much he over waters. If he is also applying nutrients with these frequent waterings, his grow will probably exceed yours if you are growing in soil. Hydro operations usually do outperform soil grows, simply because the roots are in contact with strong nutrients all the time, so yes, watering techniques matter a great deal and it is going to be very hard for a soil grow to beat a hydro operation in a grow off. Now, if we want to talk about who finishes out in the same amount of time with the best quality smoke, a soil grower has a big advantage over the water based folks.

If your friend is running soil and using this hybrid watering technique, he is trying to judge how much water the plants are using in a day, and giving just that, even breaking it into several times a day chunks. As long as he is not letting water gather in the bottom of the containers with his frequent miniscule waterings, he will not run into problems from overwatering, but this is very hard to do. His root system will not and can not develop like a plant that has been forced to dry out with each watering cycle, and it will be lazy. Although his constant feeding at first will give that plant a jump start, in the long term, the one with the strongest root system is going to produce the most and the best pot. I am confident that the wet/dry cycle and successive uppotting will result in a superior root ball in soil every time vs any seat of the pants watering method not based in science, but instead intuition, and that isn't stressing the plant a little bit on each cycle.

 

[Abstrakt]

Your friend is running his grow as if were a hydro grow, and probably not using soil. He could be using aerated water so that the oxygen deprivation problem doesn't happen on the lower roots, no matter how much he over waters. If he is also applying nutrients with these frequent waterings, his grow will probably exceed yours if you are growing in soil. Hydro operations usually do outperform soil grows, simply because the roots are in contact with strong nutrients all the time, so yes, watering techniques matter a great deal and it is going to be very hard for a soil grow to beat a hydro operation in a grow off. Now, if we want to talk about who finishes out in the same amount of time with the best quality smoke, a soil grower has a big advantage over the water based folks.

If your friend is running soil and using this hybrid watering technique, he is trying to judge how much water the plants are using in a day, and giving just that, even breaking it into several times a day chunks. As long as he is not letting water gather in the bottom of the containers with his frequent miniscule waterings, he will not run into problems from overwatering, but this is very hard to do. His root system will not and can not develop like a plant that has been forced to dry out with each watering cycle, and it will be lazy. Although his constant feeding at first will give that plant a jump start, in the long term, the one with the strongest root system is going to produce the most and the best pot. I am confident that the wet/dry cycle and successive uppotting will result in a superior root ball in soil every time vs any seat of the pants watering method not based in science, but instead intuition, and that isn't stressing the plant a little bit on each cycle.

Wow, brilliant information. He uses compost soil, so the second paragraph you wrote is spot on. I use nectar for the God's #4 which is much more compact after watering, yet still contains a good amount of perlite for quickish drainoffs.

 

[Doctor Trevor]

I have another question about using nutes...

With my past plants, I used three gallon smart pots for the entire life of the plants. Every week to ten days, I would water/feed them a gallon of water with the amount of nutrients listed on the FF Soil Feeding Schedule.

Now I'm using one gallon smart pots. I thought of giving each plant only half a gallon of water (at first) as most of it would just drain out. Would I mix one gallon of nutrient solution and split it between the two? You've said to not quarter-feed or half-feed the seedlings. Is this what I would be doing?

TIA.

 

[Emilya Green]

I have another question about using nutes...

With my past plants, I used three gallon smart pots for the entire life of the plants. Every week to ten days, I would water/feed them a gallon of water with the amount of nutrients listed on the FF Soil Feeding Schedule.

Now I'm using one gallon smart pots. I thought of giving each plant only half a gallon of water (at first) as most of it would just drain out. Would I mix one gallon of nutrient solution and split it between the two? You've said to not quarter-feed or half-feed the seedlings. Is this what I would be doing?

TIA.

Yes indeed... use the same ratio of nutes/gallon as the schedule calls for at the seedling stage. I would mix it up in a one gallon water jug and then split that between the two.

 

[Doctor Trevor]

That's what I was planning to do. Thanks.

 

[Abstrakt]

Random question that popped in my head..The fabric pot is not full of soil, only about halfway full. Would it be more advantageous to addsoil as the plant grows, or placing one smart pot on top of another with more soil in the pot below. Would you water the pots separate or together?✌

 

[Emilya Green]

Random question that popped in my head..The fabric pot is not full of soil, only about halfway full. Would it be more advantageous to addsoil as the plant grows, or placing one smart pot on top of another with more soil in the pot below. Would you water the pots separate or together?✌

You should never use half of a container, no matter the size. You need to correct that error to do this right. I know it is a pain, but peel that present container away and when you have the plant and the half rootball sitting there, fill that container up with some fresh soil, about half way, and then add your present half rootball to the top, You should end up with the top of your soil about 1" down from the top edge. Put an inch deep layer of pine bark mulch in that last bit to protect from pests, and you will be good to go. Water to saturation to merge the two soil regions, and your plant will happily send roots down into that new soil.

 

[JayMiami1221]

In the beginning, you may even want to start your seed directly in the final container, simply by putting it one inch deep, pointy end down. It is surprising to some how often this works, even though mother nature does it all the time. If you go this route, lightly mist the area around the seed several times a day with 5-10 good squirts, attempting to only wet down as far as that seed. Continue this until the seedling hits the surface.

Keep using the spray bottle twice a day, now attempting to give enough water to soak in to roughly 3x the plant's height, and in a circle out to 3x the plant's diameter, by at least doubling the amount of squirts you gave to the seedling. Do not soak the entire container right away.... your new seedling cant handle that much water and if the seedling starts to wander or swim in the wet soil, you are giving too much.

Water like this, with these relatively small amounts a couple of times a day, always attempting to get a good part of that water out away from the trunk of the plant, by trying to make the outside edges of that circle 3x the diameter of the plant, the wettest places in the container.... you are attempting to entice the top roots to grow out in that direction.

After the plant has gotten a couple of leaves and gotten taller, it will no longer swim around in the soil if given a lot of water, and it is time to get a bit more aggressive than the spray bottle can do... it is time to move to the watering can and a couple of cups of water at first, slowly soaking the entire top surface of the container. We aren't trying to saturate the container yet, but we do want enough water to soak into the entire surface at least 3x the height of the plant, and we want some of that water to head straight down the middle, where the roots are trying to reach the bottom. This is when it is handy to have been an outside vegetable gardener, so that you know how to test the top of the soil to see if it is moist. When you can no longer feel moisture a day or two later, water like this again.

When the plant's 3x diameter reaches the outside edges of the container, water the entire container slowly, to saturation (runoff) for the first time. It will take a week or more for the plant to use all of that water on this first round, but you don't want the plant to sit idle all of that time either, or it will stagnate. It is time to change the watering pattern again.

Every 3 days or so do a partial watering of the top of the surface, again with only enough water to soak in to the first 3 or 4 inches of soil. Two specialized sets of roots are now forming, the top spreader roots designed to choke off other plants and quickly gather up rain, and the bottom tap and feeder roots. You are attempting to water only the top spreader roots, while the bottom tap/feeder roots continue to work on the water sitting in the bottom of the container for as long as it takes to clear that first full watering.

You may have to do this secondary top watering 2 or 3 times while you wait for the container to dry out all the way to the bottom. Force the plant to grow the necessary roots to do this job by being patient, and the plant will eventually use all of that water. Once the lift method, a dip stick or a moisture meter tells you that is is finally dry down to the last inch of container, it is time to water completely again and repeat the process, while every 3 days watering the top, until the bottom finally syncs up with the top.

Every time you go through one of these cycles, the roots will get stronger and the time between complete waterings will diminish. Eventually the top and the bottom will sync up and you will not have to do the secondary watering any more, you will just be watering the whole container every 3 days or so, as the wet/dry cycle stabilizes at around 3 days.

It is important to cycle the plant like this all through veg so as to force the plants to develop a solid root ball... the roots do not grow to fill that container unless you challenge them. Once you get into bloom, it is time to change your watering strategy.

From then on your goal is not building roots, it is time to really start using the roots that you have carefully built. Your goal at the end of stretch should be to start pumping as much water/nutes into the plant as it can take. I typically will force a plant that is perfectly happy with a 3 day wet/dry cycle into an every other day watering all during bloom... and with the roots you have forced the plant to grow in Veg, they will be able to take just about as much water as they did in 3 days, if you have done this correctly.

Good Luck and Good Grows!
Emilya

I’ve been watering with a small spray bottle 30 seconds each plant every day for the past 3 weeks I just switched to watering the outside edges with my can the babies are 3 weeks old does everything look good? Also is it to soon for me to witch to the watering can? (Pictures are from last Friday until today)

 

[Doctor Trevor]

I would switch over. Are you feeding them?

 

[JayMiami1221]

I am not using FF OF I was told no nutes for the first month
Strain: TK91 Cake and Chem (fem)
# of Plants: 10
Grow Type: Soil
Stage: Seedling
Pot Size: 5-7 gallons
Light: HLG 650 R Quantum (50% intensity) 36 in
Ventilation : 6 in inline Carbon Filter 2 air king pros
Nutrients: None
Medium: Fox Farm Ocean Forest
PH: 6.2
RH: 45%- 58%
Room Temp : 70- 85
Tent Size : 5X5X 8
Pest: None Unknown

 

[Emilya Green]

I’ve been watering with a small spray bottle 30 seconds each plant every day for the past 3 weeks I just switched to watering the outside edges with my can the babies are 3 weeks old does everything look good? Also is it to soon for me to witch to the watering can? (Pictures are from last Friday until today)

The time to switch from the spray bottle to the watering can is as soon as the plant stops swimming around in the soil when you water, or when the second set of leaves start developing. If you don't give enough water to get down to the bottom, even just a little bit, the roots wont go down there either. Your plants have been stunted because you are artificially keeping all the roots at the surface of the soil. Everything doesn't look good... by 3 weeks I have 5 nodes sticking up and my plants are nearly 2' tall... your plants have adapted to your watering method.

 

[Emilya Green]

I am not using FF OF I was told no nutes for the first month
Strain: TK91 Cake and Chem (fem)
# of Plants: 10
Grow Type: Soil
Stage: Seedling
Pot Size: 5-7 gallons
Light: HLG 650 R Quantum (50% intensity) 36 in
Ventilation : 6 in inline Carbon Filter 2 air king pros
Nutrients: None
Medium: Fox Farm Ocean Forest
PH: 6.2
RH: 45%- 58%
Room Temp : 70- 85
Tent Size : 5X5X 8
Pest: None Unknown

You were told incorrect folklore, not fact. The truth is that you can give nutes any time you like, in FFOF or any other soil. If you want big plants, fertilize them. Strike the word feed from your mindset for a bit... soil can feed the plants, your timid advisor was right, but if you want to be serious about this thing and grow big plants, fertilize them. Use the feeding chart and give the recommended amounts for that week of the grow. Not 1/2 strength either... you are either going to do this thing like a boss, or you can grow little plants... its totally up to you.

 

[Doctor Trevor]

Jay, your last message posted start with you saying you're not using FF OF. Halfway down, you say that you are.

Who told you not to feed them for a month?

 

[JayMiami1221]

You were told incorrect folklore, not fact. The truth is that you can give nutes any time you like, in FFOF or any other soil. If you want big plants, fertilize them. Strike the word feed from your mindset for a bit... soil can feed the plants, your timid advisor was right, but if you want to be serious about this thing and grow big plants, fertilize them. Use the feeding chart and give the recommended amounts for that week of the grow. Not 1/2 strength either... you are either going to do this thing like a boss, or you can grow little plants... its totally up to you.

Which one should I use first?

 

[JayMiami1221]

Jay, your last message posted start with you saying you're not using FF OF. Halfway down, you say that you are.

Who told you not to feed them for a month?

The hydroponic store I purchased everything from, he lead me to believe that FF OF had sufficient nutrients for the first month of growth. I apologize for my lack of grammar I meant to respond to you question by saying not I am not using nutrients. I am however using FF OF which I was told had sufficient nutrients which is false information I’m learning now. Thanks for all the direction my first indoor grow I can use all the help I can get.

 

[Emilya Green]

The hydroponic store I purchased everything from, he lead me to believe that FF OF had sufficient nutrients for the first month of growth. I apologize for my lack of grammar I meant to respond to you question by saying not I am not using nutrients. I am however using FF OF which I was told had sufficient nutrients which is false information I’m learning now. Thanks for all the direction my first indoor grow I can use all the help I can get.

Please understand that most hydroponic supply store owners do not know how to grow in soil, and even if they did, it is not in their best interest for you to succeed in soil. He wants you to buy hydro equipment, which of course he will guarantee you will work. You will get your most bad information from these sorts of shops.
He then sold you instead of Fox Farm nutrients which would have worked quite well with your soil, he sold you hydro nutes. Of course he will say they work just fine in soil, but still... I have no idea how to use that pile of money he sold you... You are going to have to find directions from that manufacturer, or better yet, your hydro guy. Ask him why he made things so complicated for you???

 

[JayMiami1221]

I guess I was nothing but a dollar sign to them a little over excited to get started on my first indoor grow. I found a nutrient chart online for the Canna Line. I will give it a go and post updates. Next time I’m in town I’ll grab the FF nutes.