10x10x8 1000w vertical bare bulb room design

[TorturedSoul]

They can be high-yielders. Like everything else, it requires tailoring the grow. You're looking at a donut-shaped footprint.

 

[Rukind]

right now my plants are only vegging, so a lot of light is getting through the plants and being wasted.

but when they are flowering, there should not be much light getting through. i got 12 plants circling this light (making a donut shape). they will be about 4 to 5 ft tall each. not much light is going to be wasted. less than using a reflector i would imagine.

also i was considering putting a screen around the bulb to make sure the plants dont grow into the bulb, but i see a lot of people not using screens and doing fine.

someone gave me advice to veg vertical if you are going to flower vertical. they react differently if they are vegged with horizontal light. they seem to do better if they are vegged the same way they are flowered. also, i was told not to turn the plants. always keep them in the same spot.

also, another down side to a screen around the bulb, the screen blocks some of the light and makes a shadow. it probly wouldn't block that much light but its still a little light that can be used without the screen.

the next grow after this one, i was considering putting a screen behind the plants. then twist tying the branches up the screen. like a vertical scrog circling around the light. but the screen being behind the plants.

so light -> plants -> screen. same basic idea i am using now just with a screen behind the plants. that way the screen doesn't block any light.

this round, i am just going to flower them as they are. not going to do any training or anything really.

 

[LighTer]

Don't shoot the messenger guys. Was merely passing on the info I have read. I am not going to criticize on how you grow, but I will tell you what I know.

Remember, its a fool who does not listen to advice. Taking that advice is something else.

 

[TorturedSoul]

You are correct, in a sense. A vertical bulb installed in a parabolic reflector and placed overhead is quite inefficient (guessing rather more than 20%). One reason that the bulk of fixtures made during the last 20+ years have been vertically-orientated.

But in a setup such as this one where the bulb is in the canopy instead of above it, if the plants can be grown and positioned so that they are wholly - or at least mostly - within the light's sweet-spot, then the setup would be much more efficient than the vertical overhead one.

I do question not turning the plants, however. Not by hand, but perhaps by setting each of them on slowly-rotating platforms Although you'd lose some amount of bud mass from the part of the plants that would otherwise have been constantly receiving the light in a stationary setup, I'd think that it would be more than compensated for by having buds all around the plants. It would seem to be akin to a light-mover in a traditional horizontal setup but you'd be moving (rotating) the plants instead of the light.

 

[Hogdady]

Don't shoot the messenger guys. Was merely passing on the info I have read. I am not going to criticize on how you grow, but I will tell you what I know.

Remember, its a fool who does not listen to advice. Taking that advice is something else.

when's the last time you saw 2 lbs yield per 1kw light?

Remember, aquistion of information does not constitute knowledge.

 

[Vaporeyes]

right now my plants are only vegging, so a lot of light is getting through the plants and being wasted.

but when they are flowering, there should not be much light getting through. i got 12 plants circling this light (making a donut shape). they will be about 4 to 5 ft tall each. not much light is going to be wasted. less than using a reflector i would imagine.

also i was considering putting a screen around the bulb to make sure the plants dont grow into the bulb, but i see a lot of people not using screens and doing fine.

someone gave me advice to veg vertical if you are going to flower vertical. they react differently if they are vegged with horizontal light. they seem to do better if they are vegged the same way they are flowered. also, i was told not to turn the plants. always keep them in the same spot.

also, another down side to a screen around the bulb, the screen blocks some of the light and makes a shadow. it probly wouldn't block that much light but its still a little light that can be used without the screen.

the next grow after this one, i was considering putting a screen behind the plants. then twist tying the branches up the screen. like a vertical scrog circling around the light. but the screen being behind the plants.

so light -> plants -> screen. same basic idea i am using now just with a screen behind the plants. that way the screen doesn't block any light.

this round, i am just going to flower them as they are. not going to do any training or anything really.

you really might want to consider some kind of screen/cage , the branches are going to reach for the light then fill with bud and get quite heavy (hopefully!!) and those branches will not handle the weight (if all goes well)...

 

[Hogdady]

tomatoe cages.......

 

[Rukind]

you really might want to consider some kind of screen/cage , the branches are going to reach for the light then fill with bud and get quite heavy (hopefully!!) and those branches will not handle the weight (if all goes well)...

i have already considered this scenario. I have talked to people who are growing exactly the same way. They told me that it isn't much of a problem as long as you veg vertical as well.

in the future i will put a screen behind the plants like i said.

but i have seen many vertical grows without the screen.. using a 1000w hps. without any issues. i will constantly keep an eye on it and make sure, though.

 

[Rukind]

tomatoe cages.......

I also talked to someone who used tomato cages.. they eventually went back to just using bamboo stakes. they said tomato cages just pissed them off more than helped. not sure why. they were also doing the 1000w vertical design.


I really do feel that I will yield more if i set a huge circular screen behind all the plants and twist tie the branches back. that will be next grow, though.

also i am kind of confused about something. how far to keep the bulb from my plants?

I have 2 different charts showing me 2 different things. the traditional chart that everyone here has probly seen.

then there is this chart www.verticalherbs.com Coming Soon

this chart tells me that 18 inches from the bulb is the sweet spot for vertical. i found it on a vertical growing forum. lots of people on that forum go by that chart, but i just dont see why it makes a difference from the other more traditional chart that most people know of.

 

[TorturedSoul]

when's the last time you saw 2 lbs yield per 1kw light?

That's only 896 grams. A very respectable yield-ratio of .896 grams per watt, but people have been known to break it.

Having tried to keep up with Propa Gator's "cage" grow (and seen some things from, I think, some guy named Heath elsewhere) I do agree that vertical methods are as much a viable way to grow as any other.

Remember, aquistion of information does not constitute knowledge.

I like that!

 

[Rukind]

im gonna be happy even if i get .6gpw

thats all i ever got with my reflector in a tent. (1000w as well)

i wanted to save money with this setup and so far it seems promising. i didn't even have to buy ducting lol just a A/C, ballast, vertical lamp cord mogul base, light bulb, chain, box fan, pots, verm, perlite, gh 3 part nutes, general hydroponics ph control kit (ph up and down, dropper, liquid solution) syringes, panda film, smoke alarm, thumb tacks, aluminum duct tape, water jugs, temp and humidity meter, timer, extension cords, and thats about all i can remember? oh also my 400cfm active air inline fan and 400 phresh filter. very cheap setup for a 1k light. compared to my tent setup. the tent setup was my first grow so i blew a lot of money that i didn't need to spend. i spent around $2400 on that grow. i also used fox farm ocean forest dirt and pure blend pro with that grow. trying hempy this time.

so yeah im happy with this so far

my temps are great. this room was being cooled with a 6500 btu wall air conditioner. and it hasn't gone about 80 anytime. i havn't tried to get the temps lower because i dont want them any lower than 75 really. my air conditioner is set on 75 and it is taking care of business.

the room temp stays at 80 even without the fan blowing up at the bulb. i just feel safer with it blowing up at the bulb though.

tomorrow i am installing a 8000 btu air conditioner in there and using that 6500 btu to cool another room of my house cause its getting hot in there. (not a grow room).

so my temps will be under control even more. i found that 8000 btu A/C for $175.

but the 6500 btu was doing fine for my 800 cubic foot room.

i guess the only thing im worried about at this point is humidity. hopefully the A/C will keep it under control throughout the summer. if not i mite have to exhaust the room? or buy a dehumidifier.

also the room has carpet so i am kind of worried about powder mildew. i put a tarp down over the carpet, though.

 

[Propa Gator]

Jorge Cervantes and Ed Rosenthal both teach this, so unless you think they are wrong...

basically, your wasting a lot of your light because your sending it all out horizontally instead of vertically down to your plants, meaning, your illuminating your walls.

Yup! They're wrong. I don't waste my expensive lumens in a hor hood: Gators' Cage
You got it right, Snowbender.
Rukind, I have 8 plants surrounding a 250. Surely your big bulb can light up 15, but 12 trees would be sweet! I allow mine to grow only 30 - 32" tall.
Cervantes and Rosenthal can both KMA, I'm glad I don't own their books.

 

[Rukind]

yeah i think i am going to keep my plants 18 inches from the bulb at all times. I am going to veg for about a month, maybe a week or 2 longer if i feel like it.

so if they get to big to stay 18 from the bulb then i will cut 1 down. If i go by that chart, then 18 inches is the sweet spot.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Sounds like you're thinking things through.

You might have been able to skip the ph-Up - I don't believe I ever needed it with GH Flora with either RO or tapwater. Come to think of it, I didn't use much ph-Down, either - adding a little extra FloraBloom to the reservoir when the pH had crept up seemed to drop it right back into range.

You might do better with a pH meter than with the test kit. But the kit is certainly better than no testing at all.

Putting down the waterproof tarp/liner is always a good idea, not only to stop anything from coming up but to stop anything from going down (as accidents do happen).

If your humidity starts giving you problems and you need to do something about it, remember that dehumidifiers (at least the ones that I've seen/used) tend to add heat to the room when in use. They're a lot like a window-a/c unit in operation, only the hot part is in the room.

The smoke-alarm is a good idea and one that people often forget to consider.

Will you be running a grow journal here? There aren't a lot of vertical grows being showcased here.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Yup! They're wrong. I don't waste my expensive lumens in a hor hood: Gators' Cage
You got it right, Snowbender.
Rukind, I have 8 plants surrounding a 250. Surely your big bulb can light up 15, but 12 trees would be sweet! I allow mine to grow only 30 - 32" tall.

Was hoping you'd wander into this thread. I don't remember your GPW figures, but I do remember - err... I think, lol - that at least one of your girls was very productive and if you had done your grow with that strain/phenotype exclusively that your GPW would have blown the curve out of the water. As it is, you have a lot of people (including me) impressed with your accomplishments, especially in regards to the amount that you have invested.

Cervantes and Rosenthal can both KMA, I'm glad I don't own their books.

I've spent time reading everything I could get my hands on. And watched videos. I hate to use the term "High Times mentality," lol, but if the footwear is sized appropriately... I know that they've both played a part in showing many thousands of potential growers that it's something that anyone can do.

But I've found that once they get an idea, they don't seem to want to let go of it even after newer information has been shown to be more correct. I've seen both of them make statements long after others knew better - and when you're arguably one of the most-recognized names in your field and have the public-exposure to match, that is NOT a good thing. People tend to assume that when such a person states that "that's the way it is," that it really is.

I notice that they've both got (paid, I assume) columns in several periodicals and as I still try to read several of them (admittedly, I stopped looking at HT some time ago), I read their more current stuff too. And a lot of the truly new stuff they seem to have a more open mind about (or that might just be my perception, IDK). I wonder, therefore, if ego plays a part in things.

Of course, I'm just rambling...

 

[Rukind]

Sounds like you're thinking things through.

You might have been able to skip the ph-Up - I don't believe I ever needed it with GH Flora with either RO or tapwater. Come to think of it, I didn't use much ph-Down, either - adding a little extra FloraBloom to the reservoir when the pH had crept up seemed to drop it right back into range.

You might do better with a pH meter than with the test kit. But the kit is certainly better than no testing at all.

Putting down the waterproof tarp/liner is always a good idea, not only to stop anything from coming up but to stop anything from going down (as accidents do happen).

If your humidity starts giving you problems and you need to do something about it, remember that dehumidifiers (at least the ones that I've seen/used) tend to add heat to the room when in use. They're a lot like a window-a/c unit in operation, only the hot part is in the room.

The smoke-alarm is a good idea and one that people often forget to consider.

Will you be running a grow journal here? There aren't a lot of vertical grows being showcased here.

yeah i never used ph up in my last grow either. just bought the kit anyways. i guess i could have saved money but oh well.

i talked to hempy (the person who posted the hempy bucket method) and he told me he never used a ph pen or tds meter. he said used tap water and always gave his plants full strength nutes by the directions on the back of the gh 3 part bottle.

also man other people have done the same and never had problems giving then full strength nutes in hempy buckets. there is a entire hempy thread on ***** that explains that. hempy is meant to be simple.

if i need a pen ill get one.. im gonna take hempy's advice, though. he has many years experience with multiple strains and they all had no problems with full strength gh 3 part nute system. he said just follow directions exactly on the back of the bottles.

he said the only strains that gave him trouble were sativa. when they went into flowering he had to decrease the nutes a little and then he brought them right back to full strength soon after.

so we will see. also i have talked to a few other that do hempy's exactly as hempy and they all agree.

btw.. when i said my plants were 2 weeks old i mean the clones were taken about 2 weeks ago and were just put in the hempy buckets today. so we will see how they respond to their new environment soon.

yeah i just remembered the smoke alarm about a week ago lol thats always on the top of my list now. i will never forget it! especially when the bulb isn't in enclosed in a air cool hood.

i will start a journal soon. ill update on this thread when i have started my journal and link to it from here.

also i have another concern. im a little worried about my light bulb. and the only way to explain my concern is with a image. so check it out. i just want to know if this is a big deal or not. there is a thin metal disc in the end of the bulb where everything connects. and it looks like it is supposed to lay flat. well it kinda moves around and tips when i hang it vertically. im not sure why that disc is there anyways? it seems like some sort of heat shield in the bulb or something. i have no clue why the put them there or what there purpose is. i am just kinda concerned about it tipping and hanging diagonally.

(for some reason i can add attachments, maybe its cause im a 420mag newb lol. so here is a url to tinypic)

(image removed)


OH AND THANKS FOR THE POINTS. i am not sure who is giving them to me but i really appreciate them. i need to learn this point system a little better and ill be giving them out to a lot of you thanks again.

 

[Propa Gator]

High Rukind, I rep'd you. A brother bare-bulb vert grower should get a little love, and I'd love to see some pictures. A journal? YES

I seldom use my meters anymore, my coco medium is watered to waste runoff with fresh, listed amounts (H&G) in tap water daily. When I do measure, it's always the same. Nutes drop the pH to range, and the green growth tells me it's good.

 

[TorturedSoul]

i talked to hempy (the person who posted the hempy bucket method) and he told me he never used a ph pen or tds meter. he said used tap water and always gave his plants full strength nutes by the directions on the back of the gh 3 part bottle.

That generally works - after all, plants mostly live in conditions where man is not around to constantly monitor/adjust, lol. But I do feel that it is helpful (read: bigger yield) to know exactly what your nutrient solution mixes at, and in a recirculating system it can help provide more information about the plants, their nutrient-to-water uptake ratio, an impending root-zone problem, etc.

As Propa Gator mentioned, the ability to read one's plants is important. (IMHO), meters are simply tools to help with that.

At one point in time I was doing continuous grows and screwed up my meter. I kept meaning to replace it but was bad at procrastinating. And the plants were healthy. (I was also using GH Flora - it's really forgiving.) It wasn't until I went back and looked over the year's records that I realized that my average yield had gone down around 15%. Of course I was pretty lazy at other aspects at the time and there were multiple contributing factors. Looking back and thinking about it, it sure wasn't my fault that I was able to harvest anything at all. LMAO

also i have another concern. im a little worried about my light bulb. and the only way to explain my concern is with a image.

All HPS bulbs seem to make a noise when you shake them, lol. Is it functioning properly? I understand your concern, especially in an open environment.

BtW, offsite image links are officially frowned-upon (their reasoning is sound). I'll PM PG and ask him if he can stick that jpeg into your gallery and edit your post to include the image (if he or another staff member has not already done so by the time I post this).

Glad to read that you'll be posting a journal. I'll be subscribing. I'll probably learn a thing or three.

 

[Rukind]

sorry about the image. i edited my post.

i will upload the image to this forum instead of linking it.

 

[Propa Gator]

I saw the tiny metal piece in your bulb, and see no problem with it. The off-site image needs to be resized, then uploaded to gallery, then re-inserted in your post. I can only report, and suggest action on this. In this forum, I am a just a member. I will suggest simple deletion, because the image file is too large for our gallery. This and a bit more, I've explained via PM.
Perhaps while awaiting action, other experienced growers will view this image and voice an opinion on the little metal piece in the bulb. Like TS said: all HIDs rattle if you shake them. No useable light goes in that specific direction to be blocked, and the bulb will not short-circuit from it. That is my opinion.