Bounce3d
Well-Known Member
hey @KingJohnC i agree, that is what @Bill284 also said, compete for resources.
@Sueet i have to keep my plants small, my grow box is my limiting factor and i cannot go bigger, wish i could tho
2nd Grow, 1st Dilemma?
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@Sueet i have to keep my plants small, my grow box is my limiting factor and i cannot go bigger, wish i could tho
As someone that's grown in a 32x32 for 6 years, six plants is to many. Four plants still only gives them a 16 inch square. The 32x32's are also shorter than say a 36x36 and height can often become an issue, even with topping and doing what training you can in the limited space. I was like you and tried smaller pots/bags to start and had 5 plants in the tent, laid out like a 5 on a die. I changed to 5 gallon bags (you have to water less often which is a bonus) and 4 plants and haven't looked back. Even at 4 plants it's like growing in a sea of green style given the space available. The plants will be wall to wall.
Whenever gardening or planting crops a minimum spacing is required for the plants root system and foliage which determines the row spacing between other planted seeds or starter plants. Cannabis plants have a very unique ability to be spread out over a wide surface area allowing a single plant to harness a much greater effective flower production area with similar grow at each bud sites.
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Thanks for your input. Based on what I've read and my 1st experience using 5 gal. pots I knew the 3 gal. pots would limit the growth. With my 1st grow in 5 gal. they didn't grow to the top either but I'm sure it had more to do with inexperience and lack of knowledge than anything else. This time I realize I'm probably trading output for experience and in some ways it's a risk I'm willing to take now rather than later.As someone that's grown in a 32x32 for 6 years, six plants is to many. Four plants still only gives them a 16 inch square. The 32x32's are also shorter than say a 36x36 and height can often become an issue, even with topping and doing what training you can in the limited space. I was like you and tried smaller pots/bags to start and had 5 plants in the tent, laid out like a 5 on a die. I changed to 5 gallon bags (you have to water less often which is a bonus) and 4 plants and haven't looked back. Even at 4 plants it's like growing in a sea of green style given the space available. The plants will be wall to wall.
What is your growing medium and what do you plan on feeding them? I wouldn't assume that 3 gallon pots will keep them shorter. They may actually get taller than 5's since everything will be so cramped.
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- #27
Oh man, why'd you have to tell me they might grow bigger. If they do I'd be patting my self on the back thinking what a great job I was doing, just kidding. I didn't totally assume about the height, it's been years since I grew some fruits and vegs. outside and the more space between sometimes meant bigger melons and such with a larger root spread so I thought smaller root system, smaller plant. Then again, nothing that really grew up which I didn't consider so your point stands to reason. As of now I'm planning on using FF Ocean Floor soil and FF big grow, tiger bloom and big bloom, which I used on the 1st grow. Unfortunately I didn't keep any notes on anything so I don't remember the ratio of nutes to water I used other than it was less than recommended by FF.
Sueet
Well-Known Member
So I'm assuming you have done this already, what was the outcome, was there a rogue seed in there, or were the two indeed from one root?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I strongly recommend not guessing when it comes to the mix levels of FF nutes. Follow the feed instructions exactly, including the recommendations periodically to flush the containers. Water/feed/water/feed all the way through, pH adjusting to 6.3 pH, and you will get a great grow with FF nutes.
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I did. I used a large serving spoon and pried the dirt up and blew the soil off just enough to see the root and a plant on both ends before cutting removing the smaller one and putting the other back where it came from. I did replant the smaller one and hopefully it'll survive.
I much prefer the General Hydroponics product lines as they use superior raw source ingredients in their formulations for their nutrient lines versus other brands.
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So it's your recommendation to use for instance the FF grow big mixing the 3 teaspoon per gallons as instructed? I seem to remember reading not to use them as stated and I know I didn't on my 1st grow but have no idea how much I actually used but I did guess using less. I do remember alternating water and feed and I learned to flush by necessity and again I don't remember the ph other than I had some up and down fluctuation.
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- #33
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into them. My goal is to transplant into the 3 gal. pots the 22nd or 23rd.
You are welcome!
General Hydroponics uses premium grade raw source ingredients to ensure pH stability and product comparability. This is also why they have the majority of all sales in north America to organizations and professionals who comprehend every selection alters the outcome.
General Hydroponics uses premium grade raw source ingredients to ensure pH stability and product comparability. This is also why they have the majority of all sales in north America to organizations and professionals who comprehend every selection alters the outcome.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
There is a LOT of misinformation out there that you can read... just make sure you are reading the advice of someone with tons of followers, who obviously knows a bit about what they are speaking of. I ran FF nutrients for a good 3 or 4 years and feel I know the product pretty well. I have also seen many come in here with diagnostic questions, who, like you, have been advised to cut back on the recommended dosages. Many many times I have convinced members to follow the instructions, and they have always been amazed at the quality this produces. Its just like the pH recommendations you get out here on the web... so many lazy growers feel that they can just adjust to 6.5, the middle of the soil scale, and that they have done a good thing. In actuality, you want to come in at the low end, and especially with FF systems, 6.2-6.3 is where the system best responds. I can predict with certainty that if you come in at 6.5 the entire time in a FF grow, you WILL have a rare trace element deficiency toward the end of bloom, molybdenum. It took a bunch of grows to figure it out, but when I went to 6.2-6.3, the point where the most nutes are the most mobile in the soil, those problems went away. You have to be very careful who you take advice from in this world.
So yes, follow the chart exactly... if you do, you will become a believer, and if you don't, you will never know what your grow could have become with the right nutrition.
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- #36
I am certainly appreciative of your time and guidance. I did my 1st grow completely from reading and not asking though I didn't find any forums like this one and I should have looked harder in hind sight. I was in the saltwater reef tank hobby for about 10 yrs. and learned far more participating with people such as yourself in a similar forum to here than reading multiple websites and accepting what I read. Even after I found this site Monday night I still spent about 2 hrs. looking for the answer to my original question before coming back, registering and asking. And today, you're a perfect example, not only recommending using the FF nutes, maybe the 1st I've read, as directed amongst other things but also recommending another product you believe will produce better results. Then, when I started reading about the GH products the 1st thing I learned I'll need an additive simply because I use RO/DI water when the only PH I measured before was the soil, never the water.
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- #37
I thought I'd update the splitting of the 1seed 2 plants dilemma y'all helped me with along with another question. The photos are the 2 I split, the 2nd an undisturbed auto. I cut the tap root on 4-6 and replanted both. I used a smaller pot for the smaller of the 2 for a self reminder to be cautious and not over water it though I did elevate it slightly higher than the other plants. While they both appear to be alive I haven't noticed much growth. I didn't measure them when I replanted but the bigger one of the two is close to 1" now while the 5 plants that have not been disturbed are 1 3/4"-2" planted on 4-1 which leads to my question. If and when do you add cal and mag using ro/di water for seedlings? It was my understanding seedlings don't need nutes and to date I haven't used any though I just learned ro/di water needs cal and mag to help root development so I'm confused.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
When you find yourself confronted with two sets of opposing viewpoints, one of them is usually incorrect. I personally believe in using my expensive nutrients, not so much as feed, but as fertilizer! My battle cry is to Garden Like a Boss, and to that end, I start fertilizing at week 1. I want my plants to be as big and as healthy as they can be, and to do that I start feeding them all they will take, right from the start. I don't think of this as food... I think of it as fertilizer.
Calmag is another story. It would be easy to put enough magnesium in any commercial soil that could supply what was needed all through the grow, except for one thing... magnesium stored in the soil can cause lockouts of other important minerals. So, they put the minimum amount into soil builds and allow us to use the Mg in our water supplies as the primary source and then calmag supplements if needed. My advice on this is to wait until you have a Mg deficiency, before adding more. Do not use it as a preventative.
So yes, seedlings don't "need" a lot of nutes to get started, and most soils have enough N to get them through the first few weeks... but that doesn't mean you can't give more. Don't be timid and garden like you mean it... if you want big plants you need to fertilize, and there is no time like the present to start doing so.
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- #39
Hi Emilya, thanks for the response and guidance. I do tend to be more cautious in the beginning of something new and with me not finding hardly any info other than general lighting and water for seedlings info I decided to err on the side of caution. After your recommendation of the General Hydroponics products and I discovered ro/di water needs cal and mag and learning the importance of the 2 I began to question why not add them for the seedlings and my search for an answer began without success and my cautious side won. That being said, I did buy the GH calimagic along with the other nutes and will start using it today and start thinking like your battle cry, Garden Like A Boss!
