All you need to know about how to feed in Coco

[fatboy578]

They sure are. My first grow was supposed to be in the RDWC system I made but the seedlings would have died if I used that. They were to sick.

Subbed In, if for no other reason because you are speaking my language. I've been growing Hempy Bucket style for my last six grows, and have had great success and easy grows with nice yields. My first grow was in soil and did extremely well also, but was a constant hassle so to speak.

Hempy Bucket for me is super easy but I still can't leave it alone for more than a couple of days. I have been considering adding some CoCo into my perlite mix to about a 50/50 ration. Not exactly sure of what the benefit would be. The perlite wicks moisture up to at least 8inches. I've been using 100% perlite with Pour to Waste method.

I'm currently getting an Ebb & Flow system put together for my next Hempy Grow. It will flush the bottom half of my perlite grow medium about 4-5 times a day. I will be using air stones for my reservoir to keep the solution fresh and change every 7 - 10 days.

I found your prescription of quarter strength very interesting. I have actually considered that to be almost full strength. I use RO and my PPM levels run from 350 at the start up to around 800 in flower. I may have to dial that back with the E&F process.

Thanks for an excellent example and reference. It confirms that some of my directions are headed in a good direction.

 

[Barney86]

They sure are. My first grow was supposed to be in the RDWC system I made but the seedlings would have died if I used that. They were to sick.

Yo broski!!! Your still commenting so in assuming you haven't read my note.
This thread is for Coco/ hydro growers my man. If you follow what's in this with your miracle grow then they'll be dead in a few days!!!!! Stop!!!!!!!

 

[Remystemple]

Right let's get this finished off then, what have i missed?
Ah yes, "PH"
Now ph stands for "potential of hydrogen"
It's a measurement of how acidic or alkaline something is.
The scale goes from 1-14 with 7 being nutral. 1 being the most acidic and 14 being the most alkaline.

For coco and hydroponics, the useful ph range is 5.5-6.5.
If you feed out with that range nutrients will be locked out. Most of us generally stick to 5.7-6.3 for that reason but nothing bad will happen if you go a bit out of range for a day or two though. Just don't take the piss with it.

Now, cannabis doesn't just need it anywhere in that range, it's more specific than that.
During veg, assuming you are feeding correctly, the ph within the coco will drift upwards. It doesn't move much, so by feeding often at the lower range around 5.7, you will keep it in check no problem.

once you hit bloom the ph will start dropping so you need to go in at the higher end of 6.3-6.5 to keep it in range.

Now, this is something that I've gotten into so many arguments with people about on here. There's a ph/ppm guide kicking about and it completely misses the fact that ph drift reverses during bloom. This is why many brands of ph up are called 'ph bloom'. If the ph wasn't meant to drop in bloom it wouldn't be called that.
if the ph is rising during bloom then you're nutes are too strong.

ideally, you want a soil ph probe to check the coco but if all you got is a digital pen like most of us do then stick it in the run off. Its not a fantastically accurate way to do things but If it isnt drifting in the right direction then the nutes are too strong. Lower them a little at a time untill it corrects itself.

Checking the run off or probing the coco is something you would only do in the case of an issue though. If nothing's wrong, which it shouldn't be if you've followed the rules, feeding the right strength at the right ph for veg/bloom and feeding often enough then there's absolutely nothing to gain from checking it. It'll probably just make you worry.
Had to cover it though in order to be as comprehensive as I can.

As always, if they're not askin for it don't give them it. Just let them get on with it and have faith that feeding week and often, and always to run off, will keep everything in check.

There are literally hundreds of weird things that can go wrong when growing weed but when you feed by waiting for deficits you completely eliminate any chance of them happening and can rest assured that the deficits will 100% NOT cause any damage. You now know what to look for so you'll be waiting for it and prepared to sort it out when it happens.

Great guide. a lot of people have trouble with coco to start. i was one of them until i found Cultivators post. but this is where i have a problem with coco advice. everything i've read says P gets cut above 5.5. I pH to 5.3 - 5.4 in flower because of this. I've also seen post of growers who claim to have success treating coco like soil lol.

 

[d42zero]

Hey @Barney86 thanks again for this thread and your comments on my journal Just wondering what your method is during flower, when lights are only on for 12hrs a day? Do you only water during 'daytime' or do you water while they're sleeping as well? The reason I ask is I can't water them without turning the room light on and opening the tent so they get a hit of light if I do that, but it's literally about 90 seconds and it's an 8w LED ceiling light so I'd think it would be the 'in the wild' equivalent of a car driving past with its headlights on or someone walking past with a torch.

Should I be trying to water only during the plants' daytime or is opening the tent once a day not going to be a big deal?

I just realised this strayed a little off 'watering in coco' but I suppose it's loosely on topic lol

Cheers

 

[Barney86]

Great guide. a lot of people have trouble with coco to start. i was one of them until i found Cultivators post. but this is where i have a problem with coco advice. everything i've read says P gets cut above 5.5. I pH to 5.3 - 5.4 in flower because of this. I've also seen post of growers who claim to have success treating coco like soil lol.

No.
Sorry mate but I've no idea where you heard that any sort of weed plants like 5.3 at any point , let alone flower.
pH should be 5.5-5.7 going in for veg and 6.3-6.5 going in for bloom.

pH should rise during veg then drop during bloom. If it doesn't , then your nutes are too strong/too week and that's what's causing the imbalance.

Should always be on the higher side for bloom. Feeding at 5.3 is something you would only have to do if your nutes were waaaay too strong and causing the pH to rise rapidly.
Even at that it wouldn't be a fix. Just a short term solution to a long term drama.

Ahhh..... hang on a second .....

You've read that grossly innacurate chart that everyone loves round here haven't you????

Im off to bed now mate but l be back on tomorrow

 

[Remystemple]

No.
Sorry mate but I've no idea where you heard that any sort of weed plants like 5.3 at any point , let alone flower.
pH should be 5.5-5.7 going in for veg and 6.3-6.5 going in for bloom.

pH should rise during veg then drop during bloom. If it doesn't , then your nutes are too strong/too week and that's what's causing the imbalance.

Should always be on the higher side for bloom. Feeding at 5.3 is something you would only have to do if your nutes were waaaay too strong and causing the pH to rise rapidly.
Even at that it wouldn't be a fix. Just a short term solution to a long term drama.

Ahhh..... hang on a second .....

You've read that grossly innacurate chart that everyone loves round here haven't you????

Im off to bed now mate but l be back on tomorrow

Is there a correct chart somewhere?

 

[Remystemple]

No.
Sorry mate but I've no idea where you heard that any sort of weed plants like 5.3 at any point , let alone flower.
pH should be 5.5-5.7 going in for veg and 6.3-6.5 going in for bloom.

pH should rise during veg then drop during bloom. If it doesn't , then your nutes are too strong/too week and that's what's causing the imbalance.

Should always be on the higher side for bloom. Feeding at 5.3 is something you would only have to do if your nutes were waaaay too strong and causing the pH to rise rapidly.
Even at that it wouldn't be a fix. Just a short term solution to a long term drama.

Ahhh..... hang on a second .....

You've read that grossly innacurate chart that everyone loves round here haven't you????

Im off to bed now mate but l be back on tomorrow

No.
Sorry mate but I've no idea where you heard that any sort of weed plants like 5.3 at any point , let alone flower.
pH should be 5.5-5.7 going in for veg and 6.3-6.5 going in for bloom.

pH should rise during veg then drop during bloom. If it doesn't , then your nutes are too strong/too week and that's what's causing the imbalance.

Should always be on the higher side for bloom. Feeding at 5.3 is something you would only have to do if your nutes were waaaay too strong and causing the pH to rise rapidly.
Even at that it wouldn't be a fix. Just a short term solution to a long term drama.

Ahhh..... hang on a second .....

You've read that grossly innacurate chart that everyone loves round here haven't you????

Im off to bed now mate but l be back on tomorrow

can you explain how the pH drifts down in flower? i thought coco wanted to drift back to 7 ish all the time. my tap water is 7.6-7.8 and if i let my solution sit over night the pH will rise because of the powerful buffers in the tap water.

the other odd thing is that i don't have any imbalances. my last grow and this grow are going amazingly and i haven't let my solution go in above 5.5-5.6 max.

But if i can get even bigger buds with a higher pH then i'm down. I just want to understand what's happening with the drift as i thought it would always drift up in veg or flower.

 

[No Pain]

@Barney86 it could be coming from a nute manufacture also ..I just came across this . One thing to know is that all nutrients aren't created equal as this company must have them set up for the natural drift of the growth stages.

 

[Barney86]

@Barney86 it could be coming from a nute manufacture also ..I just came across this . One thing to know is that all nutrients aren't created equal as this company must have them set up for the natural drift of the growth stages.

See now that's something that confuses me mate. Different pH ranges for hydro Vs Coco? What do you do if your in a Wilma, oxypot, flood and drain or a hempy?
Coco is hydro. It does nothing other than hold water. Doesn't buffer anything or break anything down, just an empty sponge like a rockwool.
It also says at the bottom there. "just a guide" which I'd say means they know themselves it's not particularly accurate lol.

 

[Barney86]

can you explain how the pH drifts down in flower? i thought coco wanted to drift back to 7 ish all the time. my tap water is 7.6-7.8 and if i let my solution sit over night the pH will rise because of the powerful buffers in the tap water.

the other odd thing is that i don't have any imbalances. my last grow and this grow are going amazingly and i haven't let my solution go in above 5.5-5.6 max.

But if i can get even bigger buds with a higher pH then i'm down. I just want to understand what's happening with the drift as i thought it would always drift up in veg or flower.

It's partly to do with natural root secretions and partly to do with the change in NPK levels mate.
Veg has high N low pk. Bloom has low N high PK.
If you have a look at some different brands of nutes, you'll notice that quite a few have started calling their pH down "pH veg" and pH up "pH bloom" wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't supposed to fall in bloom.
Otherwise you'd be feeding at 6.5, it would straight away be rising out of range and you'd only have pH up to fix it with. Same with if you started at the lower end. Wouldn't be able to bring it back down cos again the bloom adjuster only makes it rise.

It's pretty hard to see this in Coco as you can't measure things fantastically accurately once they're in the media but if you put the Coco on a recirc pump with a rervoir you can see it no problem on the meters.
Also, most feed charts tell you to feed waaay more than you need. To strong a nute mix will overpower the natural processes and make the pH swing go up in bloom.
So yes, if you follow a chart that says the pH will rise in bloom then it most likely will but it's because the chart is saying to feed too strong.
Again, you can only really see it when you use a reservoir of some sort but I promise you it's there. We can see the ppm levels go through the roof.

 

[No Pain]

See now that's something that confuses me mate. Different pH ranges for hydro Vs Coco? What do you do if your in a Wilma, oxypot, flood and drain or a hempy?
Coco is hydro. It does nothing other than hold water. Doesn't buffer anything or break anything down, just an empty sponge like a rockwool.
It also says at the bottom there. "just a guide" which I'd say means they know themselves it's not particularly accurate lol.

yeah I seen the different ranges ..that feed chart is different all the way around from any nutrient line I have used , that's why I posted it .

 

[Remystemple]

It's partly to do with natural root secretions and partly to do with the change in NPK levels mate.
Veg has high N low pk. Bloom has low N high PK.
If you have a look at some different brands of nutes, you'll notice that quite a few have started calling their pH down "pH veg" and pH up "pH bloom" wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't supposed to fall in bloom.
Otherwise you'd be feeding at 6.5, it would straight away be rising out of range and you'd only have pH up to fix it with. Same with if you started at the lower end. Wouldn't be able to bring it back down cos again the bloom adjuster only makes it rise.

It's pretty hard to see this in Coco as you can't measure things fantastically accurately once they're in the media but if you put the Coco on a recirc pump with a rervoir you can see it no problem on the meters.
Also, most feed charts tell you to feed waaay more than you need. To strong a nute mix will overpower the natural processes and make the pH swing go up in bloom.
So yes, if you follow a chart that says the pH will rise in bloom then it most likely will but it's because the chart is saying to feed too strong.
Again, you can only really see it when you use a reservoir of some sort but I promise you it's there. We can see the ppm levels go through the roof.

My mind is blown. I've been reading online for about 9 months straight and I've never read anything like this is regards to pH on coco. Harvest is soon but next round I'll definitely adjust my pH schedule.

Thanks for the time.

 

[Barney86]

Great guide. a lot of people have trouble with coco to start. i was one of them until i found Cultivators post. but this is where i have a problem with coco advice. everything i've read says P gets cut above 5.5. I pH to 5.3 - 5.4 in flower because of this. I've also seen post of growers who claim to have success treating coco like soil lol.

Lots of wierd and wonderful things can a and do work very well for some people mate.
My last run I never bothered ph'ing the nutes. They come out at 6.9-7.2 veg/bloom and had zero issues. Ended up fucking the lot with a light timer but nutrient wise it was sweet.
Currently I'm not using any root protection in my hydro Res. It's running around 25*c most of the time and there's absolutely hee haw in there to stop me getting root rot or swamp gunge growing in it other than the tiny amount, absolute maximum 001ppm of chlorine in my tap water. I've got sm-90 there so can fix anything instantly if it goes wrong. Just experimenting.
Had to fix my auto Res after 6 weeks but my photo Res is now about 3 months old and not even been changed for 2! It's kickin ass!
Not something I'd advise people to try though. Especially the light timer lol.

I only tell people to do what to the best of my knowledge is the right thing to do.
I've tried treating Coco like soil once too cos I was lazy. It halved my yield. never gave me any grief because my nutes were weak enough but 2-2.5 Oz pp rather than 4-5.

On the subject actually there's a guy on another forum does really well with biotabs in Coco autopots. Just fills the Res with water and leaves them to it.
Shouldn't work but it's just as effective as what I do. Given the just water thing I'd say it's more effective to be fair.
Wish I could mind his name. Was really quite impressive. Dude on AFN.

 

[Barney86]

yeah I seen the different ranges ..that feed chart is different all the way around from any nutrient line I have used , that's why I posted it .

Ive given up on feeding charts mate. The GH trio one is pretty spot on if you stick to the lower side but generally most companies advise 500-1000ppm from day one.
Fuck that.
I wouldn't give over 1000ppm to anything less than a ten ouncer in bloom so I sure as hell wouldn't be giving it to a seedling lol.
Just a waste of money.

Ive used quite a few brands. I generally just start at
0.2ml/L for micro nutes, PK boost or bud hardners.
0.5ml/L for base nutes.

Go up 50% if anything goes yellow.
Constant 0.3ml/L for scillica and root boost all the way through. Except the first 2 weeks where I don't use scillica.

If I need iron it's a 0.5ml/L shot of calmag+(Fe+N) as and when required. Usually just a few times during the first few weeks of bloom then none again.
Never needed calmag for veg (except with the Atami line - shite, avoid them) and I have to use it for iron Def for those few weeks so don't actually know if I need any at all. Would need an iron nutrient to figure it out and I'm not about to bother lol.

It's best just to wing it in my opinion.
If they ain't askin they ain't wantin.
Just feed light and the worst that can happen is bits go slightly yellow or a couple rust spots appear. No damage whatsoever and an instant, easy, preprepared for fix

 

[Barney86]

Heres my current lot by the way.
Canopy is 20-25 square feet and they're between 3 and 4ft tall.
660w HPS and now a 250w (actual) blurple. I'll be adding another one of those tomorrow hopefully.

There's 4 X AK420's in a gt205Nft Res (20L)
And 2 in 10L fabric pots with 60/40ish Coco/perilite.

The Coco ones sit in tubs that hold about 3L.
I wait untill the water gets half an inch deep then feed till the tub is full.
Right now, that takes exactly 24 hours but it's been going up quickly so I might need bigger tubs in a week or so.
I'll try wider and shorter with more
volume though.
Can't go higher. That's just a very bad idea in so many ways.

Its only my second time trying this and if it produces as well as it's doing so far I'll be giving up the reservoirs when I pack up for Christmas

Then getting some air-domes and covering the tops with cortex.
Be like a flat pack oxypot or somethin lol.
Hopefully be around a kilo there. I'll be pretty surprised if it's less than 30.

Ppm pen fucked just now but it's between 600-800 they're getting.
I'm aiming for 600 and I won't be far off if any.

 

[Remystemple]

Heres my current lot by the way.
Canopy is 20-25 square feet and they're between 3 and 4ft tall.
660w HPS and now a 250w (actual) blurple. I'll be adding another one of those tomorrow hopefully.

There's 4 X AK420's in a gt205Nft Res (20L)
And 2 in 10L fabric pots with 60/40ish Coco/perilite.

The Coco ones sit in tubs that hold about 3L.
I wait untill the water gets half an inch deep then feed till the tub is full.
Right now, that takes exactly 24 hours but it's been going up quickly so I might need bigger tubs in a week or so.
I'll try wider and shorter with more
volume though.
Can't go higher. That's just a very bad idea in so many ways.

Its only my second time trying this and if it produces as well as it's doing so far I'll be giving up the reservoirs when I pack up for Christmas

Then getting some air-domes and covering the tops with cortex.
Be like a flat pack oxypot or somethin lol.
Hopefully be around a kilo there. I'll be pretty surprised if it's less than 30.

Ppm pen fucked just now but it's between 600-800 they're getting.
I'm aiming for 600 and I won't be far off if any.

just so i understand what you're saying about the tubs. it sounds like you're letting the bags sit in a little rez, am i getting this? lol.

 

[Remystemple]

Lots of wierd and wonderful things can a and do work very well for some people mate.
My last run I never bothered ph'ing the nutes. They come out at 6.9-7.2 veg/bloom and had zero issues. Ended up fucking the lot with a light timer but nutrient wise it was sweet.
Currently I'm not using any root protection in my hydro Res. It's running around 25*c most of the time and there's absolutely hee haw in there to stop me getting root rot or swamp gunge growing in it other than the tiny amount, absolute maximum 001ppm of chlorine in my tap water. I've got sm-90 there so can fix anything instantly if it goes wrong. Just experimenting.
Had to fix my auto Res after 6 weeks but my photo Res is now about 3 months old and not even been changed for 2! It's kickin ass!
Not something I'd advise people to try though. Especially the light timer lol.

I only tell people to do what to the best of my knowledge is the right thing to do.
I've tried treating Coco like soil once too cos I was lazy. It halved my yield. never gave me any grief because my nutes were weak enough but 2-2.5 Oz pp rather than 4-5.

On the subject actually there's a guy on another forum does really well with biotabs in Coco autopots. Just fills the Res with water and leaves them to it.
Shouldn't work but it's just as effective as what I do. Given the just water thing I'd say it's more effective to be fair.
Wish I could mind his name. Was really quite impressive. Dude on AFN.

you're just pushing the limits eh? i love it. it's like the first few time i did cloning i followed these ridiculous guides online and had a horrible time. now i just take my weed snips, chop and into rapid rooters, under the dome and forget them, never been easier.

I commend you for risking your harvests for these "experiments" lol

 

[No Pain]

Ive given up on feeding charts mate. The GH trio one is pretty spot on if you stick to the lower side but generally most companies advise 500-1000ppm from day one.
Fuck that.
I wouldn't give over 1000ppm to anything less than a ten ouncer in bloom so I sure as hell wouldn't be giving it to a seedling lol.
Just a waste of money.

Ive used quite a few brands. I generally just start at
0.2ml/L for micro nutes, PK boost or bud hardners.
0.5ml/L for base nutes.

Go up 50% if anything goes yellow.
Constant 0.3ml/L for scillica and root boost all the way through. Except the first 2 weeks where I don't use scillica.

If I need iron it's a 0.5ml/L shot of calmag+(Fe+N) as and when required. Usually just a few times during the first few weeks of bloom then none again.
Never needed calmag for veg (except with the Atami line - shite, avoid them) and I have to use it for iron Def for those few weeks so don't actually know if I need any at all. Would need an iron nutrient to figure it out and I'm not about to bother lol.

It's best just to wing it in my opinion.
If they ain't askin they ain't wantin.
Just feed light and the worst that can happen is bits go slightly yellow or a couple rust spots appear. No damage whatsoever and an instant, easy, preprepared for fix

I hear ya ..my feeding is completely custom … what caught my eye on that chart was specifically the ph value they where calling for in the growth stages(not to mention coco - hydro) and there have been a couple people asking questions and talking about starting off that low in veg ….hell they could have a friend using that line of nutes both being new growers and thinking they should be starting off at the same ph ….. its a word of caution to people . when you are talking about starting ph of nutes in a given stage its always best to ask what brand they are using ..because that is the first one that I have ever seen telling you to start that low in veg and then high in flower ..but im sure that's how they put thier nutrients together to function well at those stages . Not all nutrients are created equal .

 

[Remystemple]

I hear ya ..my feeding is completely custom … what caught my eye on that chart was specifically the ph value they where calling for in the growth stages(not to mention coco - hydro) and there have been a couple people asking questions and talking about starting off that low in veg ….hell they could have a friend using that line of nutes both being new growers and thinking they should be starting off at the same ph ….. its a word of caution to people . when you are talking about starting ph of nutes in a given stage its always best to ask what brand they are using ..because that is the first one that I have ever seen telling you to start that low in veg and then high in flower ..but im sure that's how they put thier nutrients together to function well at those stages . Not all nutrients are created equal .

I always thought the drift was up. it makes sense to go low in veg if the coco is gonna want to bring it back up. but if it's the case that it drifts down in flower a higher pH would make sense too. I'm excited to try adjust for the next grow and see how it turns out.

 

[d42zero]

I just looked up the GH Flora chart and what it says vs. what's on the bottle are very different.. the bottle seems way higher.

At the moment I'm in 'Transition to Bloom' and feeding with 13.5ml Gro/Micro/Bloom in 20 litres, which works out a bit over 50% what the chart suggests (chart works out to 21ml per 20 litres) and gives me 500ppm on the nose (starting from 150ppm tap water).

@Barney86 is the GH chart OK for use at full strength considering that it's chasing PPM figures around the 500-700 area? It seems to be approximately 25-50% the strength of what's on the bottle.

Cheers