Another Grow Thread (Organics, Conventional and OC+)

[Grower Z]

The mix for the most part is working well. I will be able to take some photos tomorrow. There are a few plants that are struggling. It could be a few things - possible overwatering on my part - soil wasn't mixed enough - not enough OC+. There is one plant that was seemingly suffocating, so I transplanted it down from a 1 gallon to a .75 gallon and into a lighter version of the soil mix. Two others from the Blue Haze group are suffering from physiological leaf rolling. The rest are very green and mostly growing vigorously. I flipped one group of plants to 12/12 already - a little premature perhaps but there is a perpetual schedule being established right now. The second group will be allowed the full veg time - to 18" tall. I've got another group of plants, previously unmentioned, 15 Blue Haze under a horizontal 400w - roughly half in the OG mix with the other half in Fafard potting mix with extra perlite. I need to topdress those with some OC+ or continue to mix the liquid fertilization up between the neptune's harvest and the Peters hydro. It's difficult to see any difference in the rate of growth this early into bloom (no flowers yet) - which is very encouraging.

 

[Doc Bud]

I'll be starting the perpetual phase of my grow this week. 12/12 all the time, everywhere. Seeds and mature clones only.

 

[IrishBoy]

The more I think about it Doc, the more I think Setting Sun and Irish are onto something with the combination of Dynamite OG (10-2-8) with the OC+. There are no fungi and bacteria, so just in terms of the ratios. I wish there was a CRF or SRF with higher K than N for bloom applications, but what are you going to do? The one with the best ratio amongst all of the companies might be the Dynamite blue label, but it's supposed to last for up to 9 months. Tell me about this Great White product. Is it a powder or a liquid?

their is DM makes one. a 10-10-17or18? the silver bottle one.

Great White does work, but i do see it worth it for the price when the Bio tone starter plus should do the same thing for allot cheaper.

 

[IrishBoy]

Again, this is merely my opinion....but what we're seeing with Irish and SS isn't so much an NPK blend that is perfect, but a release rate from the CRF's that is optimal at the temps they're experiencing....especially in the case of Irish.

i would have to disagree because all the plants were in the same temps but the DM red with the 13-13-13 NPK has the fattest buds and more dense buds over any other plant in my garden, the realse is the same as the DM red as the DM purple right? OC+ might differer. but this shows me its the NPK making the buds fatter right? wouldn't that mean its the NPK since every plant had the same temps? all i know is i am using DM Red for sure after seeing each plant with my own eyes.

but what we're seeing with Irish and SS isn't so much an NPK blend that is perfect, but a release rate from the CRF's that is optimal at the temps they're experiencing.

me and SS had way different temps .. so at those different temps the DM did great. SS temps were more idea while mine were way too hot 95+F, so i still see the NPK being a big factor.

its true that the OC+ produces nice green leaves but that doesnt mean anything to me when my DM Red plants have nasty looking leaves bud fat ass frosty buds. basically with a big cal issue with the DM red and not nearly as green i still got fatter buds, so the green leaves do impress me, the buds do. i Truly think the DM red will out yield the OC+ any day is you added Cal to it. but this is just my opinion.

what i really want to know is witch one taste better? maybe DM will produce some nasty tasting buds? ill find out soon though.

i can look at all the study's i want and everything but the answer lies right in front of me in my grow room. ive went from crazy high temps to low temps watching how each plant reacted, and all in all IMO DM Red wins hands down. now only Imagen if i did have a huge huge Cal def, the buds might even look better and bigger?

 

[Doc Bud]

i would have to disagree because all the plants were in the same temps but the DM red with the 13-13-13 NPK has the fattest buds over any other plant in my garden, the realse is the same as the DM red as the DM purple right? OC+ might differer. but this shows me its the NPK making the buds fatter right? IDK?lol. all i know is i am using DM Red for sure after seeing each plant with my own eyes.

There's not enough data to know anything for sure.

Were you plants identical clones? I don't remember if that was the case.

There is no question that temps greatly effect the release rate of OC+. I find that to be a wonderful feature.....by lowering the temps I can lower the release rate.....essentially flush them. I also like the micro profile better.

I really should get a bottle of the DM red and run a couple plants with it too.

However, I'm using the CRF's as supplements to an organic soil blend. It's more complicated, but then I'm going for reputation building weed, with all the complexities and nuance I can manage.

 

[IrishBoy]

There's not enough data to know anything for sure.
Were you plants identical clones?

so basically thats mean that ur claim of OC+ doing better then AN or any high price hydro store nutes isn't true because their not enough data right? because on that grow you went from seed right so each plant wasn't the same. So how can you say OC+ is better then AN? since the Data is lacking then AN might do better right?

you kinda see my point? you dont also need to have enough data to see whats what when the answer is right in front of you sometimes correct?

There's not enough data to know anything for sure.

Were you plants identical clones? I don't remember if that was the case.

There is no question that temps greatly effect the release rate of OC+. I find that to be a wonderful feature.....by lowering the temps I can lower the release rate.....essentially flush them. I also like the micro profile better.

I really should get a bottle of the DM red and run a couple plants with it too.

However, I'm using the CRF's as supplements to an organic soil blend. It's more complicated, but then I'm going for reputation building weed, with all the complexities and nuance I can manage.

all the clones were pretty equal expect for one that was a runt at 1st but she because the biggest at the end. but she was also not ties down, the other OC+ clone was the same as the others.

what i am trying to say is i dont think its temps like ur saying but more of the NPK because both DM plants faced the same temps but have different size buds. i guess i am not really a Data type of guy, i just go by what i see right in front of me threw the whole grow every day looking at them, and its enough for me to be convinced that DM red is the best choice. to each is their own! but you should at-least try 1 plant with some DM red and add Cal to it. I like the micro profile better on the OC+ also but i like the NPK better on the DM red.

my main focus now is the same as you organics mixed with TRF's. will both try our own thing and see what happens at the end so we can learn witch combo works good? ill have some Organic DM red plants going this weekend in some organic soil mixed with 50% coco

 

[Grower Z]

an update from the veg room

All of these but two were transplanted on 11/6.

Here is one of them - I actually re-transplanted last night in an attempt to save it. It's the one doing the worst by far:

Two KC-33 - really bushing out, these were transplanted on 10/31:

A few blue haze

There's more plants, but I have to move them from around the HPS in order to take photos.

Wick cloner with blueberry taken 3 days ago:

about a dozen more seedlings in coco/EWC/turface getting neptune's harvest fish & seaweed (1 TSP per gallon). These were planted last Wednesday:

 

[Tmac12]

Nice looking GZ!

 

[IrishBoy]

whats ur thoughts on the Bio-tone starter plus? u think its worth using and it really does help with the roots?

 

[Grower Z]

It is definitely worth using. I can't accurately compare rootballs that are being transplanted now to those from the past, but can actually see fungi growing in the soil. Not just in the bin of the mixed soil, but in the established containers too. It's kind of exciting.

 

[Grower Z]

and on that note, this is for the OG food web growers.

collecting beneficial microorganisms: Beneficial Indigenous Organisms (BIM) - Effective Microorganisms (EM) - tribe.net

this name should be recognizable.

Brewing Compost Tea
Tap your compost pile to make a potion that both fertilizes and prevents disease
by Elaine Ingham

nice step by step with photos

 

[Grower Z]

Irish is using the CRFs differently than we are, but I think it's important to note that the similarity between the DM purple and OC+ is low K, i.e. less K than N.

If you look at the various nutrient level tests (check the thread in my sig.), cannabis plants (really all flowering annuals) should get more K than N during bloom and it's reversed during veg. 3-1-2 is in general good for foliage.

So this could be pretty significant.

The extra P in the 14-14-14 is probably going to lead to taller plants - this may or may not be desired. I don't even like the amount of P in the OC+ for that matter.

 

[IrishBoy]

Irish is using the CRFs differently than we are, but I think it's important to note that the similarity between the DM purple and OC+ is low K, i.e. less K than N.

If you look at the various nutrient level tests (check the thread in my sig.), cannabis plants (really all flowering annuals) should get more K than N during bloom and it's reversed during veg. 3-1-2 is in general good for foliage.

So this could be pretty significant.

The extra P in the 14-14-14 is probably going to lead to taller plants - this may or may not be desired. I don't even like the amount of P in the OC+ for that matter.

my pics speak for them selfs. i agree with you.

 

[Grower Z]

I started brewing an AACT tonight.

4 gallons water
3 cups earthworm castings
1 cup Neptune's Harvest Fish & Seaweed
1/3 cup Kelp meal
1/3 cup Bio-Tone Starter plus
1.5 tbsp Molasses (the end of the bottle)
1 tbsp Humega

And maybe it's something in my subconscious, but I have this need to hover over the plants and water them more often. So for that reason and that reason only, more and more coco will be incorporated into the organic mix. We'll see how that goes. All of the Fafard is going to be recycled anyways so until it breaks down or I toss into the garden next summer, it will still be in there.

and the other thing that has annoyed me for the last time is perlite "floating" to the top of a soil mix. F that. Perlite has it's place on it's own, but this is more like it: Coco + Turface MVP (instead of perlite) + Gypsum + EWC + Bio-Tone + OC+ or Dynamite. It'll be worth the road trip for the coco.

 

[Grower Z]

I'm really loving both versions of this OG + OC mix. My only problem now is a lack of uniformity on the plants and the cloning should take care of that.

Here's the hurting plant from last week, it was transplanted into a mix with more coco in it. I trimmed off the dying leaves and moved it back to under the florescent bulbs. It has recovered nicely.

apologies for the lack of photo updates, I have been working long days lately.

 

[Two Tokes]

Fabulous thread. Don't know how I missed it umtil now. your talking about all my favorite things.

 

[Grower Z]

update time. Immediately after I posted that the first group was going into bloom, I changed my mind. There are a total of 19 Blue Haze and KC-33 and they were all given another week to veg.

Tonight I transplanted in 2 (two) and 3 (seven) gallon pots the 9 tallest and most well developed plants, flipping them to bloom. It's the OG / OC+ mix with a couple of twists. More coco, more EWC and because I ran out of OC+, the Dynamite brand (Lowes) organic TRF was added at a low dose. I believe they are all females.

Everything in bloom was fed an AACT tonight. Here's a few of the new bloomers:

Back in Veg are about 15 more seedlings, a blueberry mother, a black domina mother and the one really hurting blue haze plant from the last update (all yellowing) that was transplanted and is recovering nicely, but way behind the other big plants. Also the rest (10) of the KC-33 and the Blue Haze in the OG / OC+ mix. I'll try to get some more photos tomorrow.

I've also got this 400w setup with 10 plants, all Blue Haze. Eight of them are in my original OG mix and the other two are in plain coco/perlite.

There are three main 'squares' in the bloom room and the the third has 12 plants around a 1k vertical - 7 of them are in coco with EWC getting fed the Peters hydro solution and the rest are in coco based OG mix. The OG plants went into bloom last and are smaller than the rest. Also, they were vegged out in plain coco with the peters solution. This is a test to see if transplanting into OG just before flowering has a big impact on flavors. No pictures of that square right now it's just too damn bright. I have to move plants away from the HPS bulbs to take photos.

The idea here is for a perpetual harvest with 4 squares harvest every 2-3 weeks. 3 squares are filled up, one group is still in veg.

 

[Grower Z]

Photos from the veg room, I snapped this one just as the HPS went off:

These are all about a foot tall or more and bushing out nicely.

the seedlings are moving right along, they've quadrupled in size 6 days later:

 

[Doc Bud]

Love it!

 

[Barry Manilow]

Looking good! How old are the girls in the veg room?