Beginner needs advice with 2x2 indoor grow! Equipment, 12/12 vs 18/6, SCROG, etc.

[sumloud]

Hey everyone, first post here. I've been lurking for a few days now ingesting as much information as possible from here and across the web on growing. Though I've never grown a plant in my life, I feel I've read up just about enough to start designing my first grow "room". The room is in quotations because I'd hardly consider my space a room.

My current situation (1br apartment) is going to absolutely positively limit me to a 2x2 space, which I decided won't be reallocated to veg and flower but will remain as one. For this setup I've chosen the Growlab GL60 to grow in; reviews seemed positive and from a mechanical standpoint the tent seems solid and well constructed from over the internet. For this tent I plan to use the following equipment:

250W MH/HPS w/ 4" Cooltube
Single 4" low-velocity duct fan (exhaust)
4" carbon scrubber
Single 4" low-velocity duct fan (intake)
1-2 clip on fans
Soil grow (Fox Farms soil & nutes)

Still deciding if I'm going to intake and exhaust the cooltube independently and add another exhaust to vent the circulating air inside. I don't anticipate too much in the way of temperature issues with the 250W, my apartment stays at a constant 70F but we'll see.

Questions:

1. Any foreseeable issues with this equipment setup? Would there be any benefit in going for the 400W? I could manage the heat but don't really want to run high-velocity fans because of noise and electricity.

2. My initial plan was to grow 4 plants in this room. After discovering the beauty of SCROG growing, my plan shifted to growing 1 plant in this room and scrogging the hell out of it to make some nice colas. However, now that I've seen a few 70+ gram yields from 12/12 seeds I am contemplating using 12/12 vs 18/6 to keep a perpetual grow going. I am forever looking at new strains and seeds online so having to wait 3-4mo to put them in there might be tough. Can anyone weigh in on the difference in yield between growing 12/12 and 18/6? I understand its heavily experience based but possibly an average percentage?

3. Can you SCROG/LST/Top a 12/12 plant in the same manner as an 18/6 to get more horizontal growth and colas?

4. If I go the 18/6 root, would it benefit me to SCROG 1 plant or 2 at a time?

5. I had figured if I scrogged a single plant in there I may be able to turn out 4+ ounces off a single grow, anyone see any problems with this?

6. Any other ways to maximize yield?


Thanks for all the help. I can't wait to get all my equipment in and running. Looks like the first grow will be AK48 but my previous experiences smoking the shit out of some tasty headband have me thinking about ordering some Reserva Privada. Any input or opinions will be appreciated!



PS: If anyone has any nute suggestions for Nirvana AK48 or RP Headband please let me know!

 

[Emilya Green]

as far as lights go, I go by this chart:

Yellow is the aggressive growth range, 5000+ lumens. From this chart you can see that you get usable light out to 21" with a 400, and only 16" with a 250. To totally cover your 2x2 and penetrate all the way to the soil, in every part of this tent, you probably need the 400w. Measure it out from where you plan to mount the cool tube down to where the bottom most bud will be. With 4 plants you are going to need every bit of penetration you can get. It's all in the lumens you can deliver.

Now, if you are going to scrog, you don't have room for 4 plants. You barely have room for 1 plant. Scrogging is all about filling a screen to grow horizontally. Nothing can change the physics, you only have 4 square feet, and one plant can easily fill a screen of that size. I think though, that considering your small grow area, scrogging is not your best way to go... let's use instead some of that vertical space. If I were so restricted, I would work on one very bushy plant, as short as I could make her, and I would let her get about 4' tall.

Regarding 12/12 and 18/6... I think there may be some confusing here. There is no way to grow buds in the flowering stage at 18/6... they just won't do it. You use 18/6 to keep them in veg, and when you want them to flower, you put them on a 12/12 schedule. You don't have the room to do both veg and flower in that small tent... it's nice to dream big, but you are going to need a bit more space to do a perpetual.

So, there is a way to prune your plant and "train" it in various ways to create multiple buds. You can learn how to do that here, all you have to do is ask the right questions and read about how people are doing these things. Check out a few grow logs and watch what they do. It has nothing to do with 18/6 or 12/12... it has to do with how YOU shape your plant.

Lastly, yield. 4 oz per plant is a seriously good grow. Most of my plants yield much less than that, unless I take a lot of care, and a lot of time to trim and train them into big high producing bushes with multiple bud sites. It takes time, experience and knowledge to do all this, and again, the information is out here as to how to do it. You most likely will not accomplish 4 oz on your first attempt, especially in a small grow space... it's possible, but not likely. Most new growers end up with an ounce, give or take on their first attempt, and then get a little bit better at it with every successful grow. We will help you all we can, but things happen... and learning needs to happen too.

Remember too that air is as important as light, and I would use one fan to just move air from the room, and in and out of the tent, through the cool tube. Set the other fan right on top of your filter and push clean air out of that tent as fast as you can manage, letting cool fresh air come in via the vents. If the tent sucks in badly, get an intake fan too. Air is that important.

Regarding nutes, you have foxfarm soil, I hope Ocean Forest... you should be good until the beginning of flower. Young plants don't need nutes in good soil.

I wish you all the luck in the world and if you start a grow log, I will subscribe to it to try to help you if you run into difficulties. Welcome to the hobby and congrats on assembling a lot of good equipment to make your start a lot easier.

Emmie

 

[sumloud]

Thanks Emmie! SOOO much good information here.

Regarding the 12/12 18/6 confusion, I understand 18/6 is your standard veg cycle, though some people do use 24hr. My question is, is it worth it to go 12/12 from seed? I figured at first that I'd be able to have multiple plants of different ages in the same room god forbid something bad happens with one of them, but now I realize a big difference in age will effect how high the light needs to sit. Hmmm.

Edit: Will 16" of effective height on the 250W be a problem with a ratcheting rope setup? Can't I just lower it down to 16" and move it up as I go? Or are you saying that the light may be too concentrated at that height for this area and I may be better off with a 400W sitting higher up? I do have 63" of height to work with.

Double edit: Do you recommend cutting the FF Ocean Forest with perlite? 1:1?

 

[PurpleGunRack]

Hi and welcome to 420!

The GL 40 is 40cm x 40cm x 120cm, that's 1,3 'x 1,3' x 4' and it might be too small to fit a cooltube and the ducting to go with it.
You'll only be able to fit one plant in there unless you grow SoG style in very small pots.

250w is overkill for a tent that small and even if you're able to fit a cooltube height will be an issue as you need space for pot, plant, lamp, fan and some room between the light and the plant and then you'll have to grow very short plants, and possibly have some heat issues.

I think you should go with the GL60 if possible it's 2'x2'x5,3', secondary maybe get 150w HID light or LED light with similar draw power for the GL40

I had the equipment you're thinking about in a GL80 and it was a tight fit with cooltube and ducting.
It was a decent setup, though a 400w light would have been better.

Happy growing

 

[sumloud]

Hi and welcome to 420!

The GL 40 is 40cm x 40cm x 120cm, that's 1,3 'x 1,3' x 4' and it might be too small to fit a cooltube and the ducting to go with it.
You'll only be able to fit one plant in there unless you grow SoG style in very small pots.

250w is overkill for a tent that small and even if you're able to fit a cooltube height will be an issue as you need space for pot, plant, lamp, fan and some room between the light and the plant and then you'll have to grow very short plants, and possibly have some heat issues.

I think you should go with the GL60 if possible it's 2'x2'x5,3', secondary maybe get 150w HID light or LED light with similar draw power for the GL40

I had the equipment you're thinking about in a GL80 and it was a tight fit with cooltube and ducting.
It was a decent setup, though a 400w light would have been better.

Happy growing

Shucks, didn't get the ninja edit done in time! I did buy the GL60, not the GL40; bad typo

Any input in the 400 vs 250 debate for this tent? My concern is that I won't have enough cool air to maintain the 400W, I can't source air from anywhere in my building other than the rest of the apartment at 70-72F so it does worry me.

Thanks for the response and any input is appreciated!

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks Emmie! SOOO much good information here.

Regarding the 12/12 18/6 confusion, I understand 18/6 is your standard veg cycle, though some people do use 24hr. My question is, is it worth it to go 12/12 from seed? I figured at first that I'd be able to have multiple plants of different ages in the same room god forbid something bad happens with one of them, but now I realize a big difference in age will effect how high the light needs to sit. Hmmm.

Edit: Will 16" of effective height on the 250W be a problem with a ratcheting rope setup? Can't I just lower it down to 16" and move it up as I go? Or are you saying that the light may be too concentrated at that height for this area and I may be better off with a 400W sitting higher up? I do have 63" of height to work with.

Double edit: Do you recommend cutting the FF Ocean Forest with perlite? 1:1?

Yes I do, but 1:1, that is practically a soilless grow... I would never recommend that. 20% perlite, that is plenty.

your plants are going to be taller than you imagine... you are going to want the larger light with the longer penetration because the light will be at the top. heat will not be a problem if you send it out of the tent... your light will raise the ambient temp in the room about 3 degrees.

lastly, 12/12 from seed would just confuse them and they would grow funny and certainly they would not be happy about it. You cant slow down the plants like you are wanting to with the light cycle.

 

[sumloud]

Yes I do, but 1:1, that is practically a soilless grow... I would never recommend that. 20% perlite, that is plenty.

your plants are going to be taller than you imagine... you are going to want the larger light with the longer penetration because the light will be at the top. heat will not be a problem if you send it out of the tent... your light will raise the ambient temp in the room about 3 degrees.

lastly, 12/12 from seed would just confuse them and they would grow funny and certainly they would not be happy about it. You cant slow down the plants like you are wanting to with the light cycle.

Interesting! I'll try out the 20% perlite and see how it goes. With regard to the 12/12, I will most likely not go that route but do see plenty of these grows floating around the forums and a lot of people suggesting this cycle for small rooms. I'll go with 18/6 ---> 12/12 and keep it natural so I can have better control over the size of the plant.

Also, I'm having some trouble with the penetrating theory. How does a higher powered lamp equal more penetration of the canopy in the same area? If the lower area of the plant is being physically shadowed by the upper, how does more light rid the issue of the plant being physically blocked? Just wondering

 

[Emilya Green]

Interesting! I'll try out the 20% perlite and see how it goes. With regard to the 12/12, I will most likely not go that route but do see plenty of these grows floating around the forums and a lot of people suggesting this cycle for small rooms. I'll go with 18/6 ---> 12/12 and keep it natural so I can have better control over the size of the plant.

The internet is indeed a confusing place to try to gather good information
Trust nothing, verify what you can. -Wee'zard

 

[sumloud]

Another question. If I germinate the old paper towel method, will I be safe growing the seedling under a 250W MH in a solo cup sized pot? How high up should the light be on such a young plant? Then, how do I know when to transplant into a larger 3 or 5gal?

 

[PurpleGunRack]

For GL60, I think 400w might be too hot even with cooltube, but 250 will be probably be ok.
You could also go with LED, the old style Mars Hydro 600(200x3w) is ~180 USD on ebay and it draws ~280w, then you don't have a cooltube and a lot of annoying ducting in your tent and temps should be fine.

Also I don't think you need an intake fan, the passive intake the extraction fan creates should be good enough, and maintain a negative pressure in the tent and thus only allowing air to escape through the carbon filter and then smell won't be an issue.

If you live/sleep in the same room as the tent, you might wanna get a speed controller for the extraction fan and a silencer or some acoustic ducting.

If going 12/12 from seed you can always put some books or something under you younger plants to raise them towards the light.
There are many veg cycles to go with, anything from 15/7 to 24/0 and also the Gas Lantern method where you interrupt the dark period with one hour of light - so it's 12 hours light, 5,5 hours dark, 1 hour light, 5,5 hours dark.

 

[Emilya Green]

Another question. If I germinate the old paper towel method, will I be safe growing the seedling under a 250W MH in a solo cup sized pot? How high up should the light be on such a young plant? Then, how do I know when to transplant into a larger 3 or 5gal?

you really need to read a book about this stuff.. you are asking some very basic questions that you should already know going into this.

I don't like the paper towel method... too many points where things can go wrong. I just plant them 1/2 inch down in a solo cup of soil. Put your light at a bit of a distance, but not too much... seedlings need light too.

transplanting is done after you build up a rootball in your solo cup. Don't be in a hurry to transplant into a 1 gallon, and then maybe a 3 or 5 later.

 

[sumloud]

For GL60, I think 400w might be too hot even with cooltube, but 250 will be probably be ok.
You could also go with LED, the old style Mars Hydro 600(200x3w) is ~180 USD on ebay and it draws ~280w, then you don't have a cooltube and a lot of annoying ducting in your tent and temps should be fine.

Also I don't think you need an intake fan, the passive intake the extraction fan creates should be good enough, and maintain a negative pressure in the tent and thus only allowing air to escape through the carbon filter and then smell won't be an issue.

If you live/sleep in the same room as the tent, you might wanna get a speed controller for the extraction fan and a silencer or some acoustic ducting.

If going 12/12 from seed you can always put some books or something under you younger plants to raise them towards the light.
There are many veg cycles to go with, anything from 15/7 to 24/0 and also the Gas Lantern method where you interrupt the dark period with one hour of light - so it's 12 hours light, 5,5 hours dark, 1 hour light, 5,5 hours dark.

Thanks again for all the help! I'm going to use a 4" high velocity inline on the exhaust and hope it doesn't create much vacuum, if it's too much I'll add an intake. I'll probably run a fan muffler too just in case it's too much noise. It'll be in a walk in closet in my room so shouldn't be much of an issue.