Clones turning yellow brow and droopy

[S0AR3R]

Hey guys it’s my first time growing and I have 2 blue dream clones, they are both main stem clones. I rooted them in a bucket with 360 sprayer and they where doing great minus one was turning yellow w/ brown spots, when they got roots about a inch long I transplanted to some pre mixed organic bag soil (i thought it would be to hot) Then both turned yellow. So I transferred them into some buffered coco w/ perlite and still noticing it get worse, I don’t think I seen any new grow to much, but when I took them to transplant, I noticed a lots of good root grow in a short amount of time, so I know they are still fighting. Any suggestions to save them?

I got a 800w led grow light about 4ft or less away from them

I always keep the coco moist watering till run off at a ph at 5.5. I didn’t really worry about my ph when I was in the organic soil for a couple days,

I foliar feed cal mag 1 a week I started once I saw the browning and yellowing

Brown spots and yellowing started from the bottom

Humidity is at 48% I’m growing blue dream I’ve read humility for seedling is 50-55%. Temp at 77f

I know yellowing is common because of the roots eat the leaves, but these poor things look real sick to me..

 

[ed the head]

If I understand correctly, this is your first attempt to clone?

I'm no expert, but I think 2 of 3 taking on first attempt is an outstanding result.

I've read, and the last year's experience reinforces that only about half make it.

For me, these numbers seems to fluctuate madly and I am still trying to figure out why. For example, I've had 9 of 10 take, then 6 out of 8 die next time around. I think there are many, many factors to this. Strain for one, some seem more prone to cloning than others. Second is lighting, starting with a CFL, moving to a seedling LED and finally moving into the tent under the Mars light. Third is medium, first with manufactured peat plugs, now into non fertilized compacted Pro Mix. Fourth is rooting starter, beginning with Midas, trying FOOP, and switching back to Midas. Lastly, at least one misdiagnosed pest infestation that very may well have affected both mothers and daughters. I hope I finally have a handle on this last problem, which will make it a whole lot easier to manage moving forward.

My best clone performer was WAPPA. Now I have BRUCE BANNER going and it's doing okay. I plan to go back to WAPPA and/or derivative TANGERINE SORBET' soon. They're great on a 60 day flower cycle. This lets me put 1 clone in my 12/12 tent every 30 days. With space for two, this leads to a 1 plant yield per month.

But back to you and your plants, I think you can expect to see about half die. I wouldn't give up on the one in the photo, but I would cut back all that yellow. The top growth looks good to me, that's what counts I think.

 

[SmokingWings]

Hey guys it’s my first time growing and I have 2 blue dream clones, they are both main stem clones. I rooted them in a bucket with 360 sprayer and they where doing great minus one was turning yellow w/ brown spots, when they got roots about a inch long I transplanted to some pre mixed organic bag soil (i thought it would be to hot) Then both turned yellow. So I transferred them into some buffered coco w/ perlite and still noticing it get worse, I don’t think I seen any new grow to much, but when I took them to transplant, I noticed a lots of good root grow in a short amount of time, so I know they are still fighting. Any suggestions to save them?

What are the important dates for your cloning process.

Question #1. I am guessing that you took one cutting from the top growing tip on each of your two Blue Dream plants that you grew from seed that you planted the end of Dec and the beginning of January. What was the date you took the cuttings off the mother plants?

Question #2. When you transplanted to "...some pre mixed organic bag soil (i thought it would be to hot)...) you say the roots were about an inch long. What was the exact date?

Question #3. When you "...transferred them into some buffered coco w/ perlite...) what was that date?

The reason I am asking is I need the time-line of how many days between each major action.

 

[CultivationArt]

Typically clones take 5-14 days. Iv never had any go longer. Usually about 8 or 9 days for me. I don’t feed anything until they’re taking off. Otherwise they end up like yours. All fired and yellow. And all kinds of ph problems. So now I don’t feed anything untill they growing like a weed

 

[S0AR3R]

What are the important dates for your cloning process.

Question #1. I am guessing that you took one cutting from the top growing tip on each of your two Blue Dream plants that you grew from seed that you planted the end of Dec and the beginning of January. What was the date you took the cuttings off the mother plants?

Question #2. When you transplanted to "...some pre mixed organic bag soil (i thought it would be to hot)...) you say the roots were about an inch long. What was the exact date?

Question #3. When you "...transferred them into some buffered coco w/ perlite...) what was that date?

The reason I am asking is I need the time-line of how many days between each major action.

Correct both are from my mother they stared in January. It’s been about 12-14days, sadly I didn’t mark it In the calendar. So I say feb 10 I cut them, around 17th they started rooting so I put them into soil and I put them into the coco onthe 22

 

[SmokingWings]

For me, these numbers seems to fluctuate madly and I am still trying to figure out why. For example, I've had 9 of 10 take, then 6 out of 8 die next time around.

I know the feeling.

I shoot for 50% and then cull some more of them. I am happy with 30% to 40% healthy & fast growing plants.

Why is the survival & rooting ratio always changing? I started getting the feeling that the number one thing influencing the cuttings becoming healthy clones is the environment of the entire house and not just the room.

My success goes up in the late winter and early spring until late Spring or from mid February to mid or late May. Even the older plants seem to be growing better.

My thought is that the plants are reacting to the micro shifts of the Earth's surface in relation to the gravitational pull from the sun. Plus, there is the ever so slow change in the temperatures of the soils up against the basement walls which influences the average day and night temperatures in the room in the basement.

 

[SmokingWings]

Correct both are from my mother they stared in January. It’s been about 12-14days, sadly I didn’t mark it In the calendar. So I say feb 10 I cut them, around 17th they started rooting so I put them into soil and I put them into the coco onthe 22

Good info.

I am really trying to retire but I still have a couple of jobs that I do and today is snow removal on someone's drive and walks. When I get back and have recovered from that work I will try to explain some of what I see in your clones.

 

[S0AR3R]

If I understand correctly, this is your first attempt to clone?

I'm no expert, but I think 2 of 3 taking on first attempt is an outstanding result.

I've read, and the last year's experience reinforces that only about half make it.

For me, these numbers seems to fluctuate madly and I am still trying to figure out why. For example, I've had 9 of 10 take, then 6 out of 8 die next time around. I think there are many, many factors to this. Strain for one, some seem more prone to cloning than others. Second is lighting, starting with a CFL, moving to a seedling LED and finally moving into the tent under the Mars light. Third is medium, first with manufactured peat plugs, now into non fertilized compacted Pro Mix. Fourth is rooting starter, beginning with Midas, trying FOOP, and switching back to Midas. Lastly, at least one misdiagnosed pest infestation that very may well have affected both mothers and daughters. I hope I finally have a handle on this last problem, which will make it a whole lot easier to manage moving forward.

My best clone performer was WAPPA. Now I have BRUCE BANNER going and it's doing okay. I plan to go back to WAPPA and/or derivative TANGERINE SORBET' soon. They're great on a 60 day flower cycle. This lets me put 1 clone in my 12/12 tent every 30 days. With space for two, this leads to a 1 plant yield per month.

But back to you and your plants, I think you can expect to see about half die. I wouldn't give up on the one in the photo, but I would cut back all that yellow. The top growth looks good to me, that's what counts I think.

I head somewhere that rooting in bucket with water and 360 sprayer gives people just about a 100% survival rate, Definitely will be doing that again, I noticed some leaves on my mothers they where missing Chunk here and there on some of the older leaves, and was thinking it. Could be pest. But here in pa is below freezing so I haven’t been worring to much about pest, what pests have you been dealing with?

 

[ed the head]

I love that diagnosis

I really like this tying method

My thought is that the plants are reacting to the micro shifts of the Earth's surface in relation to the gravitational pull from the sun.

 

[S0AR3R]

Good info.

I am really trying to retire but I still have a couple of jobs that I do and today is snow removal on someone's drive and walks. When I get back and have recovered from that work I will try to explain some of what I see in your clones.

All good I understand, I’m off to work my self. But sadly since I’m only 22 I probably won’t understand or see the retirement part hahaha
Also working as a technician at Harley Davidson, the company will probably go under before I can think of retirement haha

 

[ed the head]

what pests have you been dealing with?

Good question, little shits are so small, it's hard to tell.
I had a 30x and 60x magnifier - damn thing was still just a spec on 60x
I purchased a 200x magnifier attachment for my iPhone, works just a little better.
Today, I found 1 dead one. I think it's a spider mite.
Over the late summer, I think we had a thrip infestation.
I can understand better summer infestations but these mid winter infestations continue to perplex me.
The problem has been the pests are so small, you don't see them, you only see their affect when it may be too late.
So ultimately, any yellowing, spotting or other general problems all seem to stem back to mis or late diagnosed pests.
I've found Neem spray effective to kill any of them. Not so much at keeping them away long term though.
To this end, I am trying a new product SNS 290. I add 2 tsp to a quart of water for a foliar spray, and 2 tsps to every 2 gallons of water. This product contains Rosemary oil and other ingredients repulsive to pests and is alleged to repel them with consistent long term use. The plants seem to love it, jury still out on it's long term practicality. Fingers crossed.
We are 3 weeks into the SNS routine, where it's recommended at least 1 month before the plants and soil are fully treated. Meanwhile, I apply Neem here and there if yellow exists, trying not to use too much because who wants that shit in their smoke?
This all sounds like a bigger problem than it is. I've raised to full yield many, many more plants than I've lost to pests. Still, losing any hurts and I want to stop that ouch.

 

[SmokingWings]

I love that diagnosis

Scientists are experimenting with growing plants in space and I have read that they now believe that Earth plants will grow better with some gravity rather than in zero gravity.

As we go from winter into spring the angle of the Earth to the sun slowly changes so that our hemisphere is pointed towards the sun while the other hemisphere goes the opposite.

So much of evolution has been influenced in some way by the gravitational pull of the sun and the moon.

I am on an email list that occasionally starts to discuss 'terra-forming' Mars and building colonies there.

 

[SmokingWings]

Correct both are from my mother they stared in January. It’s been about 12-14days, sadly I didn’t mark it In the calendar. So I say feb 10 I cut them, around 17th they started rooting so I put them into soil and I put them into the coco onthe 22

Got it. Good job being able to pull it off in two weeks and get it transplanted.

What I see is the plant slowly using up all the stored nutrients still available in the larger leaves near the bottom of the plant. It 'translocates' any nutrients it can from those leaves to the top leaves since they are the healthiest and the ones that are best able to go through photosynthesis because they are receiving the most light. Nitrogen is a major nutrient needed for photosynthesis so it seems to be the first to be pulled and the leaves start to turn yellow.

It also needs the other macro and micro nutrients to keep those leaves healthy and to supple new root and leaf growth so we often see more signs of deficiency. It will continue to pull what it needs from the existing leaves until it reaches a point where the new growth is able to produce enough to maintain the plant plus what it needs to supply the new growth. So, it is the leaves at the top that are 'eating' the older leaves. And calling it 'eating' really is the wrong word since it distracts a lot of us from what is really happening. Leads to misdirection and all that.

If you cut those leaves off now the plant will just go to the next one or two to get what it needs which compounds the problem.

I allow one to two weeks for roots to develop and then another two weeks for the entire system to stabilize. During those two weeks the plant will start to show new growth on the top. Stems and leaves are growing faster every couple of days and before long the new plant is ready for transplanting to the next size container.

You have two choices to my way of looking at it. One is to transplant back out of the coco & Perlite mix and into the soil again. If you you want to grow in soil it might be the better choice.

Or, leave the cutting in the coco & Perlite mix and learn hydro style growing with constant pH checking and a whole new batch of nutrients, mostly liquid. And as the plant gets larger you will have to feed and water once or twice a day. Plus if you keep it in the coco and get it growing the way you want it could be hard to transplant into soil after the roots have been growing in a water environment like constantly moist coco.

Me, I would go back into soil since I am comfortable doing soil grows for everything. I am comfortable doing the transplanting and at this point I would go right into the same soil as used for all the other plants. If it survives all this then great. If it does not survive then it is what it is. If you want you can use the bagged soil since most time the stuff im bags is a fairly weak 'potting' soil and very rarely anthing that could be called 'hot'.

 

[SmokingWings]

This all sounds like a bigger problem than it is. I've raised to full yield many, many more plants than I've lost to pests. Still, losing any hurts and I want to stop that ouch.

It is not loosing the plant that bugs me (seed what I did there). If the insects are not kept at minimum, or wiped out, all the damage they do slows down plant growth. That means it takes longer for a mother plant to grow new stems and leaves so we can take cuttings. Too many insects and we can end up with smaller harvests because of smaller and weaker plants. If the insect infestation gets bad enough it can actually kill the plant a week or two before the harvest date and again, smaller harvest weights and less quality.

 

[ed the head]

that's what I meant by 'lost' too

smaller yields
less potent product
less healthy moms and daughters

 

[S0AR3R]

Got it. Good job being able to pull it off in two weeks and get it transplanted.

What I see is the plant slowly using up all the stored nutrients still available in the larger leaves near the bottom of the plant. It 'translocates' any nutrients it can from those leaves to the top leaves since they are the healthiest and the ones that are best able to go through photosynthesis because they are receiving the most light. Nitrogen is a major nutrient needed for photosynthesis so it seems to be the first to be pulled and the leaves start to turn yellow.

It also needs the other macro and micro nutrients to keep those leaves healthy and to supple new root and leaf growth so we often see more signs of deficiency. It will continue to pull what it needs from the existing leaves until it reaches a point where the new growth is able to produce enough to maintain the plant plus what it needs to supply the new growth. So, it is the leaves at the top that are 'eating' the older leaves. And calling it 'eating' really is the wrong word since it distracts a lot of us from what is really happening. Leads to misdirection and all that.

If you cut those leaves off now the plant will just go to the next one or two to get what it needs which compounds the problem.

I allow one to two weeks for roots to develop and then another two weeks for the entire system to stabilize. During those two weeks the plant will start to show new growth on the top. Stems and leaves are growing faster every couple of days and before long the new plant is ready for transplanting to the next size container.

You have two choices to my way of looking at it. One is to transplant back out of the coco & Perlite mix and into the soil again. If you you want to grow in soil it might be the better choice.

Or, leave the cutting in the coco & Perlite mix and learn hydro style growing with constant pH checking and a whole new batch of nutrients, mostly liquid. And as the plant gets larger you will have to feed and water once or twice a day. Plus if you keep it in the coco and get it growing the way you want it could be hard to transplant into soil after the roots have been growing in a water environment like constantly moist coco.

Me, I would go back into soil since I am comfortable doing soil grows for everything. I am comfortable doing the transplanting and at this point I would go right into the same soil as used for all the other plants. If it survives all this then great. If it does not survive then it is what it is. If you want you can use the bagged soil since most time the stuff im bags is a fairly weak 'potting' soil and very rarely anthing that could be called 'hot'.

great info thank you, ill keep those leaves on there and put them back into soil, i have a grow store in Pa called HTG supply they been selling out of this soil they day they get it in, ask how i know :| haha but i dont know how i feel about it yet. i think next grow ill just mix my own soil so i know what and how much is in it

should i be giving my clone any micros and teas while its in this soil to help her or is that to much for the clone?

i guess I'm just cautious with this soil because i couldn't get my mothers to germinate till i took them out of this soil and into coco. this soil its what i use for my mother now though and its got a lot of nutes in ive only feed them once a few weeks back and they got nitrogen toxicity. they are around week 8 now and still look dark green and not needing feed

 

[SmokingWings]

i guess I'm just cautious with this soil because i couldn't get my mothers to germinate till i took them out of this soil and into coco. this soil its what i use for my mother now though and its got a lot of nutes in ive only feed them once a few weeks back and they got nitrogen toxicity. they are around week 8 now and still look dark green and not needing feed

Could not get the 'mothers to sprout (germinate)' or could not get them to start growing properly? Approx half of my plants are Blue Dream clones and they all tend to have that dark green color. The latest 'mother' is starting to loose the dark green color and it will be going into the flowering tent tomorrow, I hope. I am thinking about giving it a quart or two of a mix of the MaxiCrop fish or Alaska Fish Company fish fertilizer.

 

[SmokingWings]

should i be giving my clone any micros and teas while its in this soil to help her or is that to much for the clone?

I do not see any problem with doing that. Those would help the micro-orginisms start to break down any organic material they find which should then be helpful to the cuttings.

i have a grow store in Pa called HTG supply they been selling out of this soil they day they get it in,

They have a few stores in the Detroit Metro Area and one in Lansing, MI. There is one in Macomb County and I usually go there for supplies, or to just look at what is on the shelf or just to chat.

The Great Lakes Water Only is made in Michigan so it can't be all bad.

 

[S0AR3R]

Could not get the 'mothers to sprout (germinate)' or could not get them to start growing properly? Approx half of my plants are Blue Dream clones and they all tend to have that dark green color. The latest 'mother' is starting to loose the dark green color and it will be going into the flowering tent tomorrow, I hope. I am thinking about giving it a quart or two of a mix of the MaxiCrop fish or Alaska Fish Company fish fertilizer.

I couldn’t get them sprout, i Went straight into the soil so it could of just been me of course as it is my first grow but appreciate all the info man! thank you