Complications in China

[vYzion]

Hi Everyone,

Little bit of background...

First time grower...living at the other end of the Silk Road (the birthplace of a curious little plant we all know and love). I plan to order some commercial strains and start cultivating some western-influenced traditional Chinese herb a bit later this year, but decided to try my hand and gardening with some seeds I have lying around before I go to work on the real deal. The seeds came from a grow that a buddy of mine did (sort of). Actually, it's more like we found some wild weeds growing that were full of seeds.

So, basically this "grow" is me trying to figure out what exactly I'm working with materials-wise because I can read very little packaging or labeling on any of the soil, nutes etc. So, really what I'd like help with is:
1) What's going on? That is, why are my plants in the conditions they're in.
2) How to prevent it in a future grow? As well-meaning as advice about ordering Fox Farm fertilizer is, it's really not going going to happen for me. First it'd be a bit of pain getting bags of the stuff shipped internationally and then I don't really know what I tell customs if they ask me. They'll just wonder why I can't use domestic dirt and then tax me on it.

In any case, all these plants are around 5-6 weeks old. None of them have been given any nutes (unless the soil has nutes). The problem is that I can read any of the packaging, so I don't really know what's contained in anything. I can only tell you the following:
**Most of the soil I can find says pH is 5.5 - 6.8 (I know this is a bit low, but the water is at about 7 or so.

**I've only seen nutes with explicit NPK ratios as follows: 30-10-10; 10-56-10 and 18-18-18. Not sure how to adjust those to my needs. I have seen some hydroponic nutes and nutes simply labeled "growth (veg)...yellow-ish" and "flower (bloom) blue-ish"...but no explicit concentrations of anything that I could discern.

**Watering: I'm probably guilty of over-watering a bit in the beginning, but I've since cut back.

**As far as light, they've just been on my roof for a couple of weeks. So lots of sunlight.

So, I germed a bunch of them and some have grown and others not so much. The one's that actually grew, ended with some very brittle leaves that curl at the sides. Top growth appears unaffected. Pictures below.

Poor Girls - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery


The ones below sprouted but aren't actually growing. These were planted no more than 2 weeks after the plants above.

Can anyone tell me what's wrong? Also, how to fix it. And by fix it, I mean make it work with what I have (eg, can I add baking soda to watering to increase soil pH?). I can't go around talking horticulture in Chinese...and I don't know anyone who can (and if I did, not sure I'd want to enlist them).

I'd like to learn what to avoid and what to do different before I move onto the non-freebies.

Thanks, everyone. Sorry for the added complications of my situation.

 

[ecdriver]

high Vyzion, Welcome on

i'm not an expert but can try to help with my few experiences.
first, tell us please :size of pots, what are they filled with. if you can test ec and Ph of your domestic water do it , it will be useful for the following things to do.
how much and how often do you water/feed

the biggest plant on pic don't look so bad at all, maybe a too hard sun beam or a nutes burn, i have to look better and need to know what you feed them with, sorry for my awful English, i'm not a native anglo-saxon...then i often fight with this language and try to learn better.

well, i guess i'll ask you many more details as we go on the thread, maybe you'll find it boring at first but you'll soon understand that details are sometime Big when and where it 's a mater of balance.

have a nice day, or night?? i don't know at all what time it could be in your place when it's 1PM in Paris.

E.D.

 

[vYzion]

Thanks for the welcome...and quick response. (For the record, it's nearly 1AM here (GMT +8)).

I have no idea what the pots are filled with. I just went and got some dirt from the flower shop down the road. Only thing I understand on package is that the pH is around 5.5 - 6.8. But, like I said, the tap water is around 7 or so (all I have are pH strips, so I can't be more accurate than to say it's closer to 8 than 6).

I have not fed them anything. No nutes...just tap water and whatever might be in the soil (which I don't know what that is).

Pots are a bit small, actually (the largest is around 10L (maybe a bit less) and the smallest around 0.5 L). I was really hoping I could use different size pots as sort of a size control. I mean, I'm not necessarily going full stealth, but a 2 meter tall plan on the roof of a building will raise an eyebrow regardless of what kind of plant it is. And I won't be able to fit full sized plants on my balcony either. Do you have any guidelines for pot size to yield ratios?

 

[vYzion]

P.S. I now water about twice a week...sometimes 3 is the soil is looking extra parched. As for how much, I really couldn't say. I have a watering bucket and I just point it over all of the plant at the same time...just like a rainstorm.

 

[ecdriver]

if the oldest have a small pot and weak soil-mix, then re-pot with fresh soil in a bigger pot.
and for the small it look like you said, maybe overwatering. maybe there are nutes in your soil-mix, it must be write close to the Ph indication on the bag.

for the water ph, if you grow in soil-mix it does not really matters for now, except if it is above 8, i mean more than 8.
about the nutrients components proportions (NPK) i’m not really connected , then better to wait any more expert answers, but for me a good tomato nutrient should make it outdoor in soil.
always start at 1/4 or even 1/6 of the prescribed dose on the pack/bottle and less on very young plant, better to wait 3/4 weeks if you have any nutes in your potting soil before to start feeding anything.
usualy i feed every 3 to 4 watering in soil outdoor, but once, it depends on your environment and what’s good for me may not be good for someone else in a total different environment than mine actually then what i give is just indications about what is good for me.
hope it helps a bit.
i wish you have a green day in your garden.

 

[TassieDevil]

Nee How, Nee How, Nee How (sorry don't know how to spell it!)

Hello and welcome to

Your 'written' English is excellent! Don't worry about that!

I agree with ecdriver. Looks a little like over watering. I wouldn't move any of the girls into bigger pots yet....they show a little sign of something going on, so we don't want to stress them more.

Be very careful with over watering. The plant starts to wilt, it looks like it's too dry, you water again, and the plant gets worse.

Your seedling surface soil looks great...but the seedling is wilting...have you lifted some surface soil away to check to see that all the soil in the pot looks moist....you don't want to find dry spots.

I think you should wait, watch at least 2 times a day or more for signs of new growth which means the plant's are recovering, or worsening, in which case you will need to be ready to act fast.

Post some more pictures if you can in 12 hours, and 24 hours.

How hot is it on your roof during the day?

Do they stay out overnight and if so what temperatures over night?

 

[vYzion]

Thanks EC and Tassie. I appreciate your help.

Here are some recent pics of the girls (I just pulled out the seedlings). These were taken last night.

Grow Stats:
**Lighting: the Sun
**Soil: No clue. Went to a local flower shop and picked up some bags of stuff. All I know is that the pH rating was 5.5 - 6.7 (a bit low, I know, but after watering and nutes and stuff, the pH floats between 6.5 - 7.5 (I can't be more accurate because all I have is litmus paper))
**Nutes: 15/15/15 (it's the most moderate mix I could find, minus the Miracle Gro which everyone advises against.)
**Watering: 2 - 3 times a week, depends on the soil
**Strain: No clue. Just some stuff my buddy grew last year. Was loaded with seeds.


This is more of a pre-grow. The seeds came from a ton of plants that my friend grew in the mountains, but never checked on. So, come harvest time, there was just a jungle of plants loaded with seeds. I have thousands of seeds. The real grow will start when my supplies arrive in the next couple weeks. The pre-grow has no real goal, just the following purposes:
1) Since I've never grown before, I thought I should do a bit of practice with various techniques before I started a real grow with the good stuff.
2) Since I can't read any of the labels on anything, and it's a pain to get things imported, I have to make do with what I got. I figured between this pre-grow and the good help of the 420 community, I can figure out what exactly it is that I got and how to work with it.
3) Get a better understanding of pot size and it's affect on whatever.

Introducing the Girls.

#6: I honestly didn't think this one would survive. I put her on the roof one night when she was barely more than a seedling and when I came back her leaves were half gone...like, half of each leaf was gone...appeared to be either eaten or cut. Not sure what happened. So I moved her to the balcony where she's been for the past couple of weeks. Not a bad looking recovery. Probably just leaver her be. Maybe prune those half-eaten leaves at the bottom.

#5: This is the one I decided to experiment on with some LST. Just want to see what can be done, how much curving I can cause etc. I'm wondering if I can make it grow into a spiral around the pot.

#4: Don't think there's much special about this one. Leaves look a bit droopy...Probably just let her grow and see what happens. Maybe lollipop her...Maybe FIM her. What do you guys think?

#3: I'm thinking about mainlining this one (at either the 1st or 2nd node). I think this is the best candidate because there is some decent growth tips already coming in (nodes 1 & 2) as well as because there seems to be a good deal of stretching between 2nd and 3rd nodes (not sure how that happened).

#2: Not much to say about this one. Not much in the way of growth tips. Probably just let it grow and see what happens. Maybe another FIM candidate.

#1: Might try to mainline this one as well. Got some growth tips showing on the bottom node (I pruned the first node since the leaves were yellowing and a bit brittle around the edges.

I'd appreciate the thoughts of the pro's out there.
**Have the girls recovered? Are there are deficiencies or diseases etc. that you can see?
**Does whatever nute/soil combination I have seem to be serviceable (I know it's not ideal...but it's what I got).
**Advice on what growing methods to try would be welcome as well.

Thanks in advance,
vYzion

 

[TassieDevil]

Hey vY,

Your plants are looking great, there is some stretch in some of those! Is it end of winter start of spring in China? And your plants are outdoor all day?

Im going to be painful, and put the question back onto you.

Do you think the girls are recovered?
Do you think there are any diseases?

I ask so that you learn. Im not trying to be smart, telll me what you see, and I will either confirm or deny it.

Everything looks good, don't worry about the soil, MJ will grow in just about anything, if it's what you've got then use it.

Advice on growing methods is: you've got too many growing methods....seriously...if your new, please be gentle on yourself and not too complicated...what is it that you are trying to achieve? Maximum yield, maximum yield small space, a plant that can be trained along a wall, the methods are there to assist in the development of the plant to suit difference circumstances.

Im not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, maybe just make it a rewarding grow with learning that isn't so complicated. If you have the time, please try all methods to suit which is for you, but maybe it better to learn with simple techniques until some greater experience and knowledge is developed.

 

[LionoFJudah27]

looking good for a test grow, Hows the weather there in china??? Also to our humble community!!!!
May the knowledge you seek guide your way to enlightenment

 

[vYzion]

@liono: Weather in my part isn't too bad. It's about to get really hot...

@tassie: No worries. I'm not looking for info handouts. Give a man a fish and whatnot...

The reason I posted is because I do think that for the most part they have recovered. No brittleness, no discoloration, seem to be growing pretty decently (I know smaller pots will have a lot to do with this also). Other than some slight curling on a few of the leaves on one of the plants, and the slightly droopy look of #4, everything seems to be in order. I just wanted those more knowledgeable than myself to confirm.

Regarding grow styles and goals, I understand your point. But really, the outcome of this is not so important to me. I'm more concerned with learning what I can before I start in on my investment. But, if you pushed to be a goal, I'd say that the overall goal of this test grow is maximize yield to pot size ratio. I'd really like to see what can be done with smaller pots.

I'm not particularly hard up for space (my tent will be a 4x4x6) and I don't really have a need for stealth (I could put these babies on the roof if I really wanted...or even the balcony). But to do that, I can't have towering monster plants.

What I'm thinking about doing, is using the tent for vegging and growing autos...at the same time. Let the LED fatten them up during veg, then, when the days shorten, take the photo-strains out of the tent and put them outside to flower, making room for the next batch of photo-strains. Batch 2 can veg all winter, then move them outside in the Spring for more vegging and to make room for the next batch will be moved out side for flower during the Fall.

This rotation seems to provide a double harvest each time after the first (granted, one portion of that harvest will be greater than the other) as well as a constant supply of autoflowers. I could also possibly re-veg a particularly awesome plant.

So, really I just want to keep them in as small as pots as possible so that I can set them outside and make room for more plants (different strains). People are gonna questions a 6 ft. plant on the roof no matter what kind of plant it is. But no one will care about a few plants in pots.

If none of this makes sense, it's because I'm QC'ing the product.

 

[ecdriver]

hey Vyzion, very nice plant you have there, they look happy to live close to you it seems!!
i'm sure you'll get it soon M8, just look at them like you did and all will come together.
i wish you have a nice day Vyzion.