Bud Farmer
New Member
cool that its getting better, don't give up on it yet then. Are your temps any lower than they were before?
First Grow with Unknown Seeds
- Thread starter DrKivi
- Start date
Lil Neutrino
New Member
Holy hell! With a comeback like that I'm in!
I forgot my exhaust fans off one time (passive intakes like you) and it didn't take long for my plant to start drooping. I can imagine over 24 hours like that and it could get pretty bad ala your experience. Plant has to have carbon dioxide AND light to grow! The good thing is they let you know rather quickly if there's not enough air flow...figuring out that it is the problem can take seconds or days.
Oh, and unless there's some growth farther up that stem that I can't see I'd wait a little while until it's had a chance to get back on it's feet, maybe four or five days, and then trim that stem back closer to the previous node. It appears you have successfully topped your plant although it doesn't seem to have been by choice lol.
I forgot my exhaust fans off one time (passive intakes like you) and it didn't take long for my plant to start drooping. I can imagine over 24 hours like that and it could get pretty bad ala your experience. Plant has to have carbon dioxide AND light to grow! The good thing is they let you know rather quickly if there's not enough air flow...figuring out that it is the problem can take seconds or days.
Oh, and unless there's some growth farther up that stem that I can't see I'd wait a little while until it's had a chance to get back on it's feet, maybe four or five days, and then trim that stem back closer to the previous node. It appears you have successfully topped your plant although it doesn't seem to have been by choice lol.
- Thread starter
- #23
DrKivi
New Member
Update.
It's doing good. Started LST about a week ago and it's cooperating just fine.
Looks like it's no longer alone. Is that just some weed (no pun intented
) or this might become a real plant (one day it's good for transplant)?
It hasn't lost more leaves. Those laying on soil are just old ones that fell off and I didn't think it's necessary to clean them up.
Thanks for all the help, guys! Couldn't have got so far without you.
It's doing good. Started LST about a week ago and it's cooperating just fine.
Looks like it's no longer alone. Is that just some weed (no pun intented
) or this might become a real plant (one day it's good for transplant)?
It hasn't lost more leaves. Those laying on soil are just old ones that fell off and I didn't think it's necessary to clean them up.
Thanks for all the help, guys! Couldn't have got so far without you.
Hypo Hippy
New Member
DrKivi....just to chime in. First of all...what a comeback for your little seedling. Wow! In the future I would never, ever use Ammonium Nitrate on potted plants, especially a young seedling like yours. I know alot of the guys have made suggestions, but if you can get your hands on an organic fertilizer in very low N-P-K numbers you will stand a much better chance of not burning your next baby. Also remember to use very light feedings at first. 1/4 to 1/2 the recommended strength works well...every other watering. It is probably safer to slightly under fertilize than to over (you have seen what over fertilizing will do) especially coupled with high temps. In that pc case you should be able to use a pc fan to pull air in at the bottom of the case and one at the top to get rid of the high heat. Good luck!
- Thread starter
- #25
DrKivi
New Member
Today I transplanted this little plant that appeared in that pot. Hopefully I didn't hurt either (too badly).
Also, I got myself a PC case (to turn into a flowering box), stripped it down and tried to remove most light leaks. I'm hoping to get a MH bulb soon (I know, HPS would be better for flowering, but I'm on a really tight budget with this grow and I might get a great deal with this 75W MH with ballast).
If I can't get that MH, I will probably go with CFLs.
Also, I got myself a PC case (to turn into a flowering box), stripped it down and tried to remove most light leaks. I'm hoping to get a MH bulb soon (I know, HPS would be better for flowering, but I'm on a really tight budget with this grow and I might get a great deal with this 75W MH with ballast).
If I can't get that MH, I will probably go with CFLs.
Lil Neutrino
New Member
Wait...you want to put a HID light inside a PC case to flower? Heat is going to be a very big issue unless you've got a monster case that could fit a couple of ATX motherboards in it.
Hypo Hippy
New Member
Yeah Dr....I can't imagine how hot a MH bulb would be in a pc case. Our MH bulb throws out some serious heat and it ran about 16-18 inches above our plant tops. The HPS runs alot cooler, but still about 13 inches from the tops. Granted, ours is a 400 watter, but I can't imagine a 75 watt MH bulb could be run real close to the tops. Then again, what do I know? I haven't any experience with pc grows. Good luck to you my man!
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- #28
DrKivi
New Member
Thanks for the warnings. Sadly (or luckily?) the chances of me getting that MH are getting slim. In my vegging box I have 40W worth of CFL. 75W would roughly generate 2 times more heat, yet with this PC I could construct a better ventilation. I will do my best to have a good ventilation, so if I do get some bigger wattage lighting, I can easily upgrade. We'll see how it turns out. Meanwhile, I'll go see where I can get cheap CFLs. 
EDIT: It just became certain that I'm not getting this MH lamp. Oh well.
EDIT: It just became certain that I'm not getting this MH lamp. Oh well.
Hypo Hippy
New Member
DrK...don't confuse wattage with heat. cfls don't produce a fraction of the heat that a MH bulb will....at least that is my understanding. Typically a flourescents don't put out much heat...that is what makes them ideal for close-quarter grows. Not trying to squash your plans, but something to think about if you are going to stick to small enclosures. Good luck. The 6500K cfls grow beautiful plants and switching to the 2700k for flowering seems to work well.....be good.
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- #30
DrKivi
New Member
But doesn't all the electricity it uses (in watts) end up as heat anyway? So from the heat point of view, 100W of CFL and 100W of HID should end up generating the same aumont? I, by no means, say that "this is how it is and that you are absolutely wrong", but this is how I understand it.
Lil Neutrino
New Member
DrKivi...you have the right idea but it's not quite that simple. Heat occurs in electrical devices because of wasted energy mostly in the form of resistance. Not all of the wattage being used by a bulb is wasted and turned in to heat. If you took two devices that were rated 200W each but one was 95% efficient and the other was only 50% efficient which one would put out more heat? That's right, the 50% efficient device because due to it's larger inefficiency more energy (electricity) is being transformed in to heat.
This is exactly the reason that LED's have very little heat output, they are extremely efficient...usually in the 98% range. On the other hand you take an incandescent light bulb that is maybe 3% efficient on a good day and you know that they are extremely hot to the touch within seconds of being turned on.
Now to simplifiy matters a little bit. If you take two light bulbs with the same efficiency rating but two different wattages...say a 40W and a 100W, naturally the one that takes more power is going to put off more heat. But it doesn't mean that it's going to run 2.5 times hotter because it takes 2.5 times more power.
100W of CFL, 100W of LED's, and 100W of HID will all put out different amounts of heat because of their different efficiency ratings. According to Wikipedia (I haven't verified this through multiple sources but sounds about right) the average MH bulb is only about 25% efficient. And after some digging for a short period I couldn't find a percentage for CFL's but I did find an article from the magazine Popular Mechanics that stated CFL's were about 70% more efficient than incandescent. This would put them around 10% efficient.
So if CFL's are only about half as efficient than MH's how come they produce less heat watt for watt? Good question and I'm not positive but I believe it has to do with how each bulb produces light.
Apparently Ed Rosenthal of High Times magazine has even recommended CFL's for microgrowing (PC cases for example), I can't post the link here because it is offsite but do a search on google for "why do metal halide run hotter than cfl" and click on the second link that comes up. It should be titled "Ed Rosenthal Say's CFL's May be Better...."
I would also highly recommend you wander over to The CFL Light Tutorial and ask some more questions there. That thread is getting a lot of views for a good reason so chances are more knowledgeable people about lights than myself will see your questions and help you out.
This is exactly the reason that LED's have very little heat output, they are extremely efficient...usually in the 98% range. On the other hand you take an incandescent light bulb that is maybe 3% efficient on a good day and you know that they are extremely hot to the touch within seconds of being turned on.
Now to simplifiy matters a little bit. If you take two light bulbs with the same efficiency rating but two different wattages...say a 40W and a 100W, naturally the one that takes more power is going to put off more heat. But it doesn't mean that it's going to run 2.5 times hotter because it takes 2.5 times more power.
100W of CFL, 100W of LED's, and 100W of HID will all put out different amounts of heat because of their different efficiency ratings. According to Wikipedia (I haven't verified this through multiple sources but sounds about right) the average MH bulb is only about 25% efficient. And after some digging for a short period I couldn't find a percentage for CFL's but I did find an article from the magazine Popular Mechanics that stated CFL's were about 70% more efficient than incandescent. This would put them around 10% efficient.
So if CFL's are only about half as efficient than MH's how come they produce less heat watt for watt? Good question and I'm not positive but I believe it has to do with how each bulb produces light.
Apparently Ed Rosenthal of High Times magazine has even recommended CFL's for microgrowing (PC cases for example), I can't post the link here because it is offsite but do a search on google for "why do metal halide run hotter than cfl" and click on the second link that comes up. It should be titled "Ed Rosenthal Say's CFL's May be Better...."
I would also highly recommend you wander over to The CFL Light Tutorial and ask some more questions there. That thread is getting a lot of views for a good reason so chances are more knowledgeable people about lights than myself will see your questions and help you out.
- Thread starter
- #32
DrKivi
New Member
Yes, lights are an interesting topic and I really would love to discuss it more, yet, I am not interested enough.
Meanwhile, in the growbox:
Tiny little surprise-plant is not so tiny anymore. Hopefully it keeps on going.
My big(ger) plant seems to have some deficiencies, but I'm too scared to fertilize it.
Meanwhile, in the growbox:
Tiny little surprise-plant is not so tiny anymore. Hopefully it keeps on going.
My big(ger) plant seems to have some deficiencies, but I'm too scared to fertilize it.
TomatoPie
New Member
I know you love your very abused plant, but if you want any bud I'd lick my wounds and start over, that poor thing has been stressed so much she'll probably herm on the first day of 12/12. But holy shit, I'm amazed that she bounced back so big after such a near death, I guess weed does grow despite our "Help" sometimes.
She wants a bit of Nitrogen though, less is more! Find a balanced 3-1-2 proportion fert and apply 1/4 of the recommended dose, or less. (Stay away from the ammonium nitrate unless you're making IED's or fertilizing a field)
That little sprout looks like lettuce, spinach or some sort of weed
Those dead leaves in the pot: perfect breeding ground for molds, mildew, and pests. Your grow should be (nearly) laboratory spotless to avoid those potentially grow-killing problems.
She wants a bit of Nitrogen though, less is more! Find a balanced 3-1-2 proportion fert and apply 1/4 of the recommended dose, or less. (Stay away from the ammonium nitrate unless you're making IED's or fertilizing a field)
That little sprout looks like lettuce, spinach or some sort of weed
Those dead leaves in the pot: perfect breeding ground for molds, mildew, and pests. Your grow should be (nearly) laboratory spotless to avoid those potentially grow-killing problems.
- Thread starter
- #35
DrKivi
New Member
mako: If you mean that <300MHz CPU, then that was the first item I found with suitable size and weight for LST. If you mean that bigger thing with display, that's my timer.
Afka: Thanks for tips. I will surely clean up these old leaves then. I will also try to get my hands on some suitable fertilizer ASAP.
I'd love to start over, but I'm having trouble getting seeds. Seedbanks are not an option for me, so I need to rely on people who know some people who know some people.
Afka: Thanks for tips. I will surely clean up these old leaves then. I will also try to get my hands on some suitable fertilizer ASAP.
I'd love to start over, but I'm having trouble getting seeds. Seedbanks are not an option for me, so I need to rely on people who know some people who know some people.
Lil Neutrino
New Member
DrKivi, if you're scared to fertilize then buy an organic fertilizer if you can...they are typically less potent than chemical fertilizers and thus harder to "burn" your plant with. Afka's recommendation sounds good to me and if you want to be careful give it a mild dose (follow the label's dosage amounts). If it handles that ok give it water only the next time you water it, then the next time give it a regular dose and see how it does.
Greenthumb422
New Member
It looks like she got toooo hot
seriously stretched too amigo.
You cannot really grow in 35 degrees no matter what soil you use, its just way too high and will shrivel the plant which is what I am sure has happened in this case.
Adding nutes etc and the other things mentioned above by people will just compound the issue. get some stable conditions in there. 80 degress, 50 humidity. repot it. water it and let it dry out b4 watering again. ph 6.5 ish
goodluck
You cannot really grow in 35 degrees no matter what soil you use, its just way too high and will shrivel the plant which is what I am sure has happened in this case.
Adding nutes etc and the other things mentioned above by people will just compound the issue. get some stable conditions in there. 80 degress, 50 humidity. repot it. water it and let it dry out b4 watering again. ph 6.5 ish
goodluck
420
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How did this grow turn out?
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We would love to be updated with some pictures and info!
If you need any help with posting photos, please read the photo gallery tutorial:
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I am moving this to abandoned journals until we get updates.
Thanks and hope all is well in your world!
Love and respect from all of us here at 420 Magazine!
- Thread starter
- #40
DrKivi
New Member
Sadly this one died some time ago. When I get enough free time, I will start again with a stripped PC case grow, which will have a lot better ventilation.
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