FiveToMidnight's First Grow - Coco/Perlite - NL - MarsHydro 300W LED - 2015

[FiveToMidnight]

A week before, or two weeks into bloom, but not during as this will interrupt "the stretch". The stretch is when she'll nearly triple in size and make the best gains for flowering sites.

So maybe this week seeing as you suggested another week before switching?

Great job midnight! I got my eye on this journal! Lots of good people giving lots of good info. Good job

Thanks mate. Yeah a wold of knowledge being thrown around here, I'm learning so much

They are looking really good and healthy now 5!

I would pull a plant out of the pot and check the roots myself. Do it just before they need watering so the rootball holds together better. From their size I'd say they need bigger pots and I would top or FIM them to restrict vertical growth and encourage side branching. The way your plants have grown now LST would still work but it's not going to be as effective at this stage. Topping just above the 4th node when the plants are a lot smaller is the usual method to set up for lifelong LST growing.

When I transplant and the plant is getting root-bound I use a bread knife to saw the bottom inch or so off the rootball to get rid of all the winding roots. In less than a week there are roots poking out the bottom of the new pot and the plants never seem to miss a beat in their growth. I do this each time and when I cut open the rootball after the plant is done there are fine roots growing all thru the pot from top to bottom. Just like when you top a plant, removing the ends of roots causes them to branch out further up. It's those fine feeder roots that absorb the nutrients not the thick ones. If there are long stringy roots wound around the sides I shave them off as well. I put a pole of some kind in the new pot to tie the plant to for support for the first couple weeks until I'm sure the new roots can support the plant. I jam it thru the existing rootball to the bottom of the new pot and use a twist tie to fasten the plant to it. After first repotting just tilting the pot can cause the plant to tip and rip out new, fine roots that are just getting going.

I'm not going to top this one but I will do some LST to make them fit the space better.
Did your cutting method on the last transplant and will do the same again this time too. Thanks!

 

[FiveToMidnight]

I see some more yellowing on some of the leaves, looks like I may not be past the problem. I have been using the extra 25% Micro for every feed as suggested. Had a couple of leaves fall off today too, they looked like they had been bleached white.
Any suggestions? I'll post a pic shortly

 

[FiveToMidnight]

and here are some pics. Let me know what you think it could be. It still looks like N deficiency to me but not sure what I should do about it.
Should i be adding Cal/Mag at any point? I haven't been adding that and I've heard others saying it should be when using coco. However my coco is already buffered with Cal/Mag so I don't know lol.
Should I maybe flush with FloraKleen or maybe plain water? People often say it is a good way to help fix problems.

EDIT: After much research it seems like I may need to add some flora gro to the mix. I've seen a few who have flushed with florakleen and then fed to fix the issue

Love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Skybound]

Sorry bro, working many hours so time is short ATM. I wish to point out that not only are the lower leaves a bit on the light side, but the upper sets look to be a bit darker than ideal, so I suggest looking into possible reasons before adding the Gro presumptuously.

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Sorry bro, working many hours so time is short ATM. I wish to point out that not only are the lower leaves a bit on the light side, but the upper sets look to be a bit darker than ideal, so I suggest looking into possible reasons before adding the Gro presumptuously.

I completely understand, we all have lives we must live lol. That's why I appreciate the time you guys take so much!
I hadn't noticed the upper leaves looking dark, although I guess I don't know what shade of green they should be, I thought it looked right lol.
I have been reading through detailed explanations of different plant problems but I can't seem to find one that exactly matches what I have. It sounds to me like it could be a combination of N, Cal and Mag deficiencies.
Either way I'm noticing the solution is usually to flush with either plain water, or nute mix, or something like FloraKleen. I also noticed after reading through more Lucas Formula grow journals that a lot of people appear to have these kinds of problems, especially with N and most seem to fix it by flushing and feeding with the 3-part formula. others have found other solutions or just changed the ratio's of the 2 parts but it seems like more people get more success by flushing and using the 3-part formula.

I'm really starting to lean towards using the 3-part instead of the 2-part lucas as it seems a lot more stable and causes less issues. I already have a bottle of the Flora Gro so it's all ready and waiting.
I'm just not sure how I should flush. Should I use plain water as previously suggested or go with the FloraKleen?

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Ok so after many hours of reading and research through other journals I found that, like I mentioned above, many have had the same problems with the Lucas Formula and have found a solution by flushing and feeding with the proper 3-part mix. There are quite a few others that managed to work out the right Lucas Formula mix for them but I found a trend with people saying you needed to make the PH swing a bit. I found that most the people that managed to fix their problems while still using Lucas were very experienced and understood a lot about how the nutes worked. So due to the complexities I followed the trend of flushing and feeding with the 3-Part mix.

Yesterday evening I flushed about 2L of FloraKleen mix through each plant and today I transplanted them into bigger 1.5L pots from the 0.5L pots they were in. I then fed with the 3-Part mix as per the label which gave me a 580PPM measurement which seemed to be in the right range of what we were previously speaking about.

I'm hoping I made the right decision and they like their new pots and the new nute mix. I'm thinking I may have gone too small with the pots but the only other ones I have are 4.2L and I thought that was too big.

Would love to hear thoughts and will be posting pics tomorrow after they have 24 hours to settle in to the new pots.

 

[Camo420Grow]

Hey 5 sorry to hear about all the troubles your girls are havin! Praying for them to have a speedy recovery brother. I too wanted to start with the lucas formula because it seemed so simple and easy. 2 bottles and some Cal mag, boom your done! Plus the money saved on nutes. but I have read other Lucas formula journals that people had problems and now I'm a little skeptical about it! So I will either get the 3 series or the canna A&B series due to that's what an experience grower told me to use! But I sure do wish I could figure out the lucas formula and just use the flora nova bloom bottle! I look to see your girls come back to life 5! I'll be watching man!

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Hey 5 sorry to hear about all the troubles your girls are havin! Praying for them to have a speedy recovery brother. I too wanted to start with the lucas formula because it seemed so simple and easy. 2 bottles and some Cal mag, boom your done! Plus the money saved on nutes. but I have read other Lucas formula journals that people had problems and now I'm a little skeptical about it! So I will either get the 3 series or the canna A&B series due to that's what an experience grower told me to use! But I sure do wish I could figure out the lucas formula and just use the flora nova bloom bottle! I look to see your girls come back to life 5! I'll be watching man!

Thanks mate, appreciate the support. I was thinking I should be adding some Cal/Mag too but cause my coco is buffered with it and I just transplanted it may not be needed. Would love any coco growers to chime in on that one too.

I would advise to go with 3-part flora series or I've been told by many that canna and Advanced Nutrients are really good too. For starting out its better to keep it less complicated I think. I didn't realise how much I needed to understand before jumping in to it.

 

[Camo420Grow]

Yeah I've been reading and researching now for 2 months and I've bought a few things for my first grow coming up! I'm just trying to get everything nailed down so my first grow is a success! I really want it to be, so main thing is stapling out this Nutrients dilemma. I sure hope you have figured yours out!

 

[TheBlaze]

Hey bud. I also grow in coco/perlite. I assume you're using chemical nutes? A + B + NPK or something like that. LOL!

I also made plenty mistakes in my first few grows. Here are some tips that I've found work wonders for me. Apologies if this has been covered already. I didn't read all the questions and answers in your journal.

- Try keep temps in the 26 - 30 deg celsius range. It's tough, I know. I'm from South Africa, so it gets hot here to. I'm using AC in my grow room now because of the heat. Anything over 35 deg and you're going to run into some problems.

- Get a pH pen! This is very important. My first few grows, I used the dye that reacts and changes colour. Then you check a chart to see what pH is and adjust accordingly. This is not very accurate, and probably accounts for 90% of the issues I had in my first few grows.

- For coco/perlite, aim for a pH of between 5.7 and 6.0. I usually aim for 5.7. You will need pH up and down to adjust pH.

- There are no nutrients in coco/perlite, so you should start feeding a light nutrient mix early on already. When the first set of true leaves start appearing. Usually 3 or 4 days after they break the surface.

- If you're giving them water regularly but they are drooping, it's not because they need more water. It's because you are over-watering them.

- If you struggle with a dry climate, get a cold air humidifier. They are cheap and work wonders!

- I start feeding full strength nutes as soon as the plants can handle it. I will keep that up and sometimes even exceed suggested limit. If I start seeing the first signs of nute burn (brown tips, and clawing leaves) I just flush them, let them dry out and then go back to full strength again.


Good luck mate!

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Yeah I've been reading and researching now for 2 months and I've bought a few things for my first grow coming up! I'm just trying to get everything nailed down so my first grow is a success! I really want it to be, so main thing is stapling out this Nutrients dilemma. I sure hope you have figured yours out!

Yeah that's what I tried to do too, but as you can see I didn't quite get it lol. I wish you the best of luck though and hope you can learn from my mistakes ;-)

 

[GrizzWald]

I've mentioned and asked if you were using cal/mag a few times in this journal, as recently as trying to figure out your nitrogen deficiency... You weren't advised to buy it to keep as a trophy, lol... 1.5ml litre.... You've got things working against you with cal/mag. Your in coir, not using coir specified nutrients, distilled water and under LEDs. Regarding the Lucas formula, Are you using 6/9 per gal method? From searching coir and Lucas, this seems to be the right formula.

 

[GrizzWald]

What type cal/mag you got? Just found this...
dont use gh calimagic for coco, its carbonate based. it may not show problems immediately, but eventually it can build up in your root zone. same goes for go calmag.
I have calmax but it's never used using coir specific nutrients...

 

[Camo420Grow]

What type cal/mag you got? Just found this...
dont use gh calimagic for coco, its carbonate based. it may not show problems immediately, but eventually it can build up in your root zone. same goes for go calmag.
I have calmax but it's never used using coir specific nutrients...

Hey grizz who makes calmax?

 

[GrizzWald]

Grotek....I'm not endorsing it, just what I ended up with and barely use..

 

[Camo420Grow]

Thanks grizz. +reps for all the knowledge brother.

 

[KCMP]

Subscribed! Glad to see another Coco / LED grow going on at the same time as mine.

If you have not translpanted yet I highly suggest going with smartpots. I have had excellent succes with them using Coco.

 

[Grouchy]

Hey midnight!
I've been using coco for s while now and I love the stuff but I definitely add some Cal/Mag. I usually add about 3ml/gal for young plants and when they are mature enough, 5-6ml/gal. I've had zero problems using the Lucas formula thus far but I'm also using the FloraNova Bloom Licas. A lot more expensive than alternatives but as I said, I've had zero problems with it.
My nute lineup is...
Floranova bloom
CALiMAGic
pH down
Pretty basic as it gets

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Hey bud. I also grow in coco/perlite. I assume you're using chemical nutes? A + B + NPK or something like that. LOL!

I also made plenty mistakes in my first few grows. Here are some tips that I've found work wonders for me. Apologies if this has been covered already. I didn't read all the questions and answers in your journal.

- Try keep temps in the 26 - 30 deg celsius range. It's tough, I know. I'm from South Africa, so it gets hot here to. I'm using AC in my grow room now because of the heat. Anything over 35 deg and you're going to run into some problems.

- Get a pH pen! This is very important. My first few grows, I used the dye that reacts and changes colour. Then you check a chart to see what pH is and adjust accordingly. This is not very accurate, and probably accounts for 90% of the issues I had in my first few grows.

- For coco/perlite, aim for a pH of between 5.7 and 6.0. I usually aim for 5.7. You will need pH up and down to adjust pH.

- There are no nutrients in coco/perlite, so you should start feeding a light nutrient mix early on already. When the first set of true leaves start appearing. Usually 3 or 4 days after they break the surface.

- If you're giving them water regularly but they are drooping, it's not because they need more water. It's because you are over-watering them.

- If you struggle with a dry climate, get a cold air humidifier. They are cheap and work wonders!

- I start feeding full strength nutes as soon as the plants can handle it. I will keep that up and sometimes even exceed suggested limit. If I start seeing the first signs of nute burn (brown tips, and clawing leaves) I just flush them, let them dry out and then go back to full strength again.


Good luck mate!

Thanks for the tips there. I have already done most of what you have suggested but I appreciate the climate suggestions.

I've mentioned and asked if you were using cal/mag a few times in this journal, as recently as trying to figure out your nitrogen deficiency... You weren't advised to buy it to keep as a trophy, lol... 1.5ml litre.... You've got things working against you with cal/mag. Your in coir, not using coir specified nutrients, distilled water and under LEDs. Regarding the Lucas formula, Are you using 6/9 per gal method? From searching coir and Lucas, this seems to be the right formula.

Sorry I may have missed you asking that. I have added the cal/mag now and also added the flora gro, so no more lucas formula.
I was using the 6/9 Lucas Formula but was advised to go 1/1 earlier on. I'm now doing the full Flora 3-part series 4/5/1 as per advertised instructions and PPM sits around 580 with 5.7ph every time. When adding the Cal/Mag it boosts up to about 900 but I just dilute it back down to around 600-700.

What type cal/mag you got? Just found this...
dont use gh calimagic for coco, its carbonate based. it may not show problems immediately, but eventually it can build up in your root zone. same goes for go calmag.
I have calmax but it's never used using coir specific nutrients...

Hmmm too late lol. Hope its ok

Subscribed! Glad to see another Coco / LED grow going on at the same time as mine.

If you have not translpanted yet I highly suggest going with smartpots. I have had excellent succes with them using Coco.

Already transplanted but thanks for the tips, I will keep it in mind. I have noticed others using them but preferred to start with conventional plastic pots.

Hey midnight!
I've been using coco for s while now and I love the stuff but I definitely add some Cal/Mag. I usually add about 3ml/gal for young plants and when they are mature enough, 5-6ml/gal. I've had zero problems using the Lucas formula thus far but I'm also using the FloraNova Bloom Licas. A lot more expensive than alternatives but as I said, I've had zero problems with it.
My nute lineup is...
Floranova bloom
CALiMAGic
pH down
Pretty basic as it gets

Thanks grouchy. I'm no longer using lucas and have started adding cal/mag so hopefully they will recover. I have switched to the conventional 3-Part Flora mix to hopefully fix up the N deficiencies as I found a lot of other growers having the same issues and using that solution to fix it.
I also flushed them out with FloraKleen before I switch so as to give them a bit of a fresh start. Really hoping the recover soon so I can switch the light to bloom. I've read you really shouldn't switch until one has fixed all the problems.

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Sorry for the lateness in reply guys, for some reason I wasn't notified that you guys had posted.

Here are some pics from today. They're getting a lot bigger now and I am going to have to switch the light to bloom very very soon. I will bend them over a little bit too to try and kill some of the height.

Still a bit of yellowing but thinking its cal/mag related which should now be fixed due to adding the Flora gro and Cal/Mag to the mix. Let me know what you think.