Green Utopia
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports Competition - Haight Solid State vs. Hydro Grow LED
OK - At the risk of talking too much, I wanted to tack on just a little to my last thoughts. I was down in my room, well medicated, and adding light rails and lights - so this stuff was floating around in my head.
Since I have been somewhat negative about the LEDs I was really convinced that I must not be understanding something about the way they should be used and their wattage numbers.
The more I thought about what that wattage of their small vs large - and the comparable sq/ft. it seems like what's missing from the equation is the penetration.
And this is where my ignorance of LEDs is evident. So let me ask you SS:
1) how much does the light spread? Using the numbers from their site again - the dimensions of their 345 are 19"x19" with an optimal area of 36"x36" at 12" above the canopy. This sounds like very cohesive light. Not much spread.
2) If its cohesive - then the more LEDs you put in the same area would increase intensity, but not spread. So is this why sometimes I see LED grows where the plants are the size of a lighter, vs others where the plant is a little more like an avg size?
In other words - I would not try to flower my 6 plant scrog under a 250hps because I would end up with crappy bud and plants like lighters. But I could flower 2 very nice plants under a 250 or VEG a bunch more. Is part of the problem with LEDs that folks are looking at those square footage numbers and thinking like HID where if you have a smaller bulb - you move it closer. But in reality the lower wattages simply aren't enough power to get anything bigger than a lighter no matter how close?
So - based on your plants, about how much penetration do you feel like you got? Is there an optimal distance from the plant that the light was too close or too far? At what distance did the buds change from nice buds to popcorn?
3) If the smaller wattage is enough to flower under by moving the light closer - would it make sense for the LED manufacturers to make a much more spread out 345w? In other words are they cramming more LEDs into the same space to try to achieve penetration, when they should be focusing on increasing the sq/footage available under the light? Given its low heat - seems like they should be able to acheive linear horizontal expansion. Figure out the closest the LED's can be, and the minimum wattage required at that distance to get full sized buds. Then simply go sideways. If it takes 50w/sq ft at 3" then 100w at 3" should be 2 sq ft.
I think the prob is they don't know what that number is because its so affected by the wavelength of light. It will take years of real-world grows and R&D to determine what spectra the plants like in their LEDs. In the mean time, they just figured that if the magic number for HIDs is 1 g/w and LED bulbs use half that power - then we have to tell people that we get 2g/w or they won't buy them. Ooops - wasn't going to dis the manufacturers.
All these questions demonstrate my ignorance of LEDs - so if anyone has any corrections to my math or logic please correct me. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to interrupt this thread any more. As I am now gonna try to shut up for a little and do more learning.
Thanks again SS.
OK - At the risk of talking too much, I wanted to tack on just a little to my last thoughts. I was down in my room, well medicated, and adding light rails and lights - so this stuff was floating around in my head.
Since I have been somewhat negative about the LEDs I was really convinced that I must not be understanding something about the way they should be used and their wattage numbers.
The more I thought about what that wattage of their small vs large - and the comparable sq/ft. it seems like what's missing from the equation is the penetration.
And this is where my ignorance of LEDs is evident. So let me ask you SS:
1) how much does the light spread? Using the numbers from their site again - the dimensions of their 345 are 19"x19" with an optimal area of 36"x36" at 12" above the canopy. This sounds like very cohesive light. Not much spread.
2) If its cohesive - then the more LEDs you put in the same area would increase intensity, but not spread. So is this why sometimes I see LED grows where the plants are the size of a lighter, vs others where the plant is a little more like an avg size?
In other words - I would not try to flower my 6 plant scrog under a 250hps because I would end up with crappy bud and plants like lighters. But I could flower 2 very nice plants under a 250 or VEG a bunch more. Is part of the problem with LEDs that folks are looking at those square footage numbers and thinking like HID where if you have a smaller bulb - you move it closer. But in reality the lower wattages simply aren't enough power to get anything bigger than a lighter no matter how close?
So - based on your plants, about how much penetration do you feel like you got? Is there an optimal distance from the plant that the light was too close or too far? At what distance did the buds change from nice buds to popcorn?
3) If the smaller wattage is enough to flower under by moving the light closer - would it make sense for the LED manufacturers to make a much more spread out 345w? In other words are they cramming more LEDs into the same space to try to achieve penetration, when they should be focusing on increasing the sq/footage available under the light? Given its low heat - seems like they should be able to acheive linear horizontal expansion. Figure out the closest the LED's can be, and the minimum wattage required at that distance to get full sized buds. Then simply go sideways. If it takes 50w/sq ft at 3" then 100w at 3" should be 2 sq ft.
I think the prob is they don't know what that number is because its so affected by the wavelength of light. It will take years of real-world grows and R&D to determine what spectra the plants like in their LEDs. In the mean time, they just figured that if the magic number for HIDs is 1 g/w and LED bulbs use half that power - then we have to tell people that we get 2g/w or they won't buy them. Ooops - wasn't going to dis the manufacturers.
All these questions demonstrate my ignorance of LEDs - so if anyone has any corrections to my math or logic please correct me. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to interrupt this thread any more. As I am now gonna try to shut up for a little and do more learning.
Thanks again SS.
) light. So the diffuser you put on the LED is what is limiting its penetration...coherent light has a lower drop off. 
(Cuz I might just be)
)
Sun.
I thought it was cohesive too...til I looked it up. There are Cohesive Light Bandages though...
Sun
and 
for showing us the vast difference between these two brands of LED. I think HGL LEDs are probably comparable to equal watt CFL's at best but certainly not HID's as once claimed by the makers. Good if you've got heat issues I guess but still way too expensive IMO. Whatcha doin for your next grow mate???
