Help with my plants!

[bruno12345]

There are actually plenty of things you could try.

But the fact that you NEED to use RO water, points you into a direction of switching nutrient brand.

Another thing that could help.
Earthworm castings.

They are rich in microminerals, and plant stimulants, could be a great complement for you.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/mgfresno/files/262372.pdf

"Analysis of earthworm castings reveals that they are rich in iron, sulfur, calcium, nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium (NPK rating: 5.5.3). They are much richer in nutrients than bulk compost, therefore application rates are much lower."

You could try a top dressing of worm castings.

OR

How i do it:
5 liters jug with 4 liters of water and 800g of humus (or earthworm castings).
Mix it vigorously for a minute, twice a day.
In 3 days its ready.
A super simple organic fertilizer, with biostimulants, and trace minerals.

You can filter it with a nylon sock, or other material, or if you dont use a sprayer, just let it quiet for 12 hours and apply the whole thing.

You do have to adjust the ppm diluting it in water. This mix produces me a 1100ppm.
You could do a mix of your organic fertilizer, and this humus tea.

 

[bluter]

crap just throw some cal-mag at it. i think your first instinct is right. no offense to @Emilya, but i read you're on RO.

RO takes calcium and heavier stuff like magnesium out. the 'nute guy at the hydro shop' , is not using it . so his personal formula is probably a touch shy there.

also most cal-mag supplements are 1-0-0 or 2-0-0. other than the cal-mag you're getting a bump in iron. two birds one stone. just don't overdo it.

simpler approach : drop the RO and see. RO also pulls iron out. bet there's fewer hoops that route if you stay on this course.

full disclosure : i'm on RO. mostly to get rid of iron and calcium.. we're in the 300 count.

 

[MCalata]

How are you doing mate?

My take on your problem.

1st Step (an more important one): Call the nutrient factory guy, and as for the composition of the mixture, in terms of NPK, Ca, Mg and microminerals.

The fact that he uses tap water and has success, and you are not, may be because of tap water minerals.
Tap water has many trace minerals, calcium, copper, magnesium, etc.
Some minerals are needed in incredibly minimal quantities, but are NEEDED.
And when you use RO water, you have to assure that your fertilizer can give your plants the whole 17 minerals needed for plant health.

I agree with emylia. i think you have a Calcium deficiency (distorted new growth, narrower basal portion of the upper growth leaflet, slight yellowing of upper growth).
An Iron deficiency, (new growth yellow, and basal portions of upper growth leaves yellowing.
Maybe some othe microminerals deficiencies too. This could include boron, sulfur, etc.

As soon as you know whats in the fertilizer, you will be more prompt to knowing your problem.

And maybe start thinking into changing your nutrients. Try a commercial formula with a known, complete composition.

Also, peat has an very acidic pH. (average 4)
I use peat, vermiculite and dolomitic lime for pH balancing. Dolomitic lime gives your plants Ca and Mg, and buffers pH.
Ask your supplier about medium pH, and if he uses some kind of lime in it.

Hey Bruno, thanks for dropping by.
I already emailed my guy asking for NPK levels and other stuff, haven't had an answer yet, so I'm gonna wait a little longer. But the fact that NPK levels and other minerals are not printed in the labels should have been a red flag to me.

I actually wanted to go with a brand name exactly for this reason, so i didn't have problems and in case i did you guy could help me with nutes you might have used. Anyways, the problem is that were i live we get 3 commercial formulas. Advanced (crazy expensive, i think the sensei grow a+b 1Liter is like between 160-200 USD), Grotek (good pricing) and Plagron, but i haven't been able to find much info on plagron. So I'm thinking of buying the grotek pack.

The peat bag says it just contains 2 types of peat and the ph range it has is 5.5 - 6.5. I did measure runoff ph about 10 days ago and it came at 5.7. So that shouldn't be a problem i think.

I've hours of discussion on how to interpret this chart
You could add more Fe which would probably help, but...
Fe has a synergy with K, so a dose of high K feed may make more of the existing Fe available to the plant
Excess P would also cause similar results (see the red lines)
Given that you've just up-potted, it may even resolve itself - though I do agree with Bruno re changing nutes for RO water for the reasons he states - you'll work it out!

What's up growings,
If adding K might help i could try some bloom booster which i know has PK, its the only bottle that says what it has lol.

I'm noticing one of the plants getting more brown spots on the leafs, so I'm considering getting the grotek line and some calmag to be sure, what do you guys think?

Thanks!

 

[bruno12345]

Hey Bruno, thanks for dropping by.
I already emailed my guy asking for NPK levels and other stuff, haven't had an answer yet, so I'm gonna wait a little longer. But the fact that NPK levels and other minerals are not printed in the labels should have been a red flag to me.

I actually wanted to go with a brand name exactly for this reason, so i didn't have problems and in case i did you guy could help me with nutes you might have used. Anyways, the problem is that were i live we get 3 commercial formulas. Advanced (crazy expensive, i think the sensei grow a+b 1Liter is like between 160-200 USD), Grotek (good pricing) and Plagron, but i haven't been able to find much info on plagron. So I'm thinking of buying the grotek pack.

The peat bag says it just contains 2 types of peat and the ph range it has is 5.5 - 6.5. I did measure runoff ph about 10 days ago and it came at 5.7. So that shouldn't be a problem i think.

What's up growings,
If adding K might help i could try some bloom booster which i know has PK, its the only bottle that says what it has lol.

I'm noticing one of the plants getting more brown spots on the leafs, so I'm considering getting the grotek line and some calmag to be sure, what do you guys think?

Thanks!

Well, i dont know about the brand because i live in Brazil and here, commercial nutes are even more expensive. So i use some general purpose organic fertilizer and humus tea. but if it gives your plant the entire meal, and you have a cal mag booster, you should be in a very comfortable position regarding nutrition.

If you want to learn more about nutrition, search in youtube harley smith (npk university) complete plant nutrition video, or bruce bugbee "maximizing cannabis yield". Lots of info.

I also posted some scientific papers on veg NPK ratios on the scientific section of this forum.

Wish you the best of luck!

 

[MCalata]

There are actually plenty of things you could try.

But the fact that you NEED to use RO water, points you into a direction of switching nutrient brand.

Another thing that could help.
Earthworm castings.

They are rich in microminerals, and plant stimulants, could be a great complement for you.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/mgfresno/files/262372.pdf

"Analysis of earthworm castings reveals that they are rich in iron, sulfur, calcium, nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium (NPK rating: 5.5.3). They are much richer in nutrients than bulk compost, therefore application rates are much lower."

You could try a top dressing of worm castings.

OR

How i do it:
5 liters jug with 4 liters of water and 800g of humus (or earthworm castings).
Mix it vigorously for a minute, twice a day.
In 3 days its ready.
A super simple organic fertilizer, with biostimulants, and trace minerals.

You can filter it with a nylon sock, or other material, or if you dont use a sprayer, just let it quiet for 12 hours and apply the whole thing.

You do have to adjust the ppm diluting it in water. This mix produces me a 1100ppm.
You could do a mix of your organic fertilizer, and this humus tea.

Nice, ill try the earthworm castings since its cheap, great info!

This would work out great since I ran a little bit short on substrate when transplanting and was looking to top dress them.

I noticed you said you are from Brazil. Well I'm from Argentina. Awesome to see my neighbors helping me!

Thanks for the help and recommendation!

 

[MCalata]

crap just throw some cal-mag at it. i think your first instinct is right. no offense to @Emilya, but i read you're on RO.

RO takes calcium and heavier stuff like magnesium out. the 'nute guy at the hydro shop' , is not using it . so his personal formula is probably a touch shy there.

also most cal-mag supplements are 1-0-0 or 2-0-0. other than the cal-mag you're getting a bump in iron. two birds one stone. just don't overdo it.

simpler approach : drop the RO and see. RO also pulls iron out. bet there's fewer hoops that route if you stay on this course.

full disclosure : i'm on RO. mostly to get rid of iron and calcium.. we're in the 300 count.

Hey bluter,

The thing is i cant just drop the RO water cause my tap water comes out at 1200 PPM minimum. Would using RO water + 300 - 400 PPM of my tap water be a good alternative? So i would have a 300 - 400 PPM base water.

I'm probably gonna throw this nutes I'm using in the trash and get some grotek nutes + An calmag

 

[bruno12345]

Nice, ill try the earthworm castings since its cheap, great info!

This would work out great since I ran a little bit short on substrate when transplanting and was looking to top dress them.

I noticed you said you are from Brazil. Well I'm from Argentina. Awesome to see my neighbors helping me!

Thanks for the help and recommendation!

Oh, nice!!!
I live in south of Brazil, so we actually are neighbors!
Hahahahahaha

Humus is an incredible fertilizer.
Its cheap here in Brazil too, but dont let the price fool you.

Embrapa (brazilian agropecuary research institute) has looked into it, and it activates ATP enzymes, and act as a potent biostimulant very similar to auxin molecule.

I actually ran my first grow almost entirely with the humus tea recipe.

But now im using an 3-1-1 organic fertilizer mixed with it to help me boost the nitrogen part of it.

Glad to help, hope youre plants develop well.

 

[Roy Growin]

Hey Bruno, thanks for dropping by.
I already emailed my guy asking for NPK levels and other stuff, haven't had an answer yet, so I'm gonna wait a little longer. But the fact that NPK levels and other minerals are not printed in the labels should have been a red flag to me.

I actually wanted to go with a brand name exactly for this reason, so i didn't have problems and in case i did you guy could help me with nutes you might have used. Anyways, the problem is that were i live we get 3 commercial formulas. Advanced (crazy expensive, i think the sensei grow a+b 1Liter is like between 160-200 USD), Grotek (good pricing) and Plagron, but i haven't been able to find much info on plagron. So I'm thinking of buying the grotek pack.

The peat bag says it just contains 2 types of peat and the ph range it has is 5.5 - 6.5. I did measure runoff ph about 10 days ago and it came at 5.7. So that shouldn't be a problem i think.

What's up growings,
If adding K might help i could try some bloom booster which i know has PK, its the only bottle that says what it has lol.

I'm noticing one of the plants getting more brown spots on the leafs, so I'm considering getting the grotek line and some calmag to be sure, what do you guys think?

Thanks!

Hey MCalata - the idea is to balance up with more K, so PK will probably make it worse (adding P as well)
Some purists may disagree, but bog standard tomato feed is usually something like 2-2-8 and has seaweed extract, iron, magnesium etc try that with tap water for a couple of waterings - that'll do the job - not hydro prices ;O)
Even more simple, you could water fine wood ash into the soil (or dissolve it) as that has no N or P, just K. I f you see a burst of strong growth, bingo - there's your answer
Give it a go and see the results - tho CalMag + Fe might still be good idea
Come back and let us know how it goes - good luck Dude

 

[bluter]

Hey bluter,

The thing is i cant just drop the RO water cause my tap water comes out at 1200 PPM minimum. Would using RO water + 300 - 400 PPM of my tap water be a good alternative? So i would have a 300 - 400 PPM base water.

I'm probably gonna throw this nutes I'm using in the trash and get some grotek nutes + An calmag

in that case i'd keep the RO and just try add some cal-mag back in. what's your ppm after you filter the water ?

 

[Jabulldawg86]

I’ve never used RO personally but I believe you are correct that cal-mag is necessary for RO. Variegation is genetics as far as I know but that looks pretty bizarre... I’m hoping Ms Emilya will swing back thru before signing off for the night

Looking for alot of information so I one get good at growing. Right now I have one plant outside that I didn't think the seed would sprout now it has and don't know where to start until I'm able to get a grow tent. I think it's about a couple weeks.

 

[013]

Hey Dawg86,

Welcome to the forums at 420. Glad your bean sprouted. Most growers here start them indoors and later once stabilized they begin work to harden the plants off slowly over several days time to prepare them for outdoor growing. For now just make sure the seedling isn’t cooked by being in full sun all day long. A spot that has some sun and partial shade. I’m an indoor grower but there are tons of grower of all stripes right here ready to jump in and help you.

It might be wise for you to start a FAQ post of your own so you are not piggybacking on this thread started by Mcalata - that way all the questions & answers will pertain to your garden alone. Just write up details like soil type, container size, nutrients, watering habits etc. and toss a pic of your seedling(s) and the 420 team can get right on it.

BRB with link....Read first paragraph here and then add as much info as you can about your setup. Doesn’t matter if you have expensive setup or grow out of a rusty wheelbarrow, we will try to get you on track! Here’s link - How to ask for grow support

 

[MCalata]

Whats up guys?

So, unfortunately my country went into lockdown for 10 days so i couldnt get any new nutes or anything, but as soon as we got freed i went straight to my growshop and got the Grotek mega pack basically an almost complete kit, and ditched the old shitty nutes. And also gotcome AN cal-mag. This fixed my deficencies i think. But something new just popped up. Im not really sure what does this mean, it feels super dry.

Anyway another question i had is, my media is 70% peat, 30% perlite, no amendments or nothing. How often should i feed, can i feed as often as in coco/perlite mix? This plants are in 6.5 gallon (25L) containers.

Thanks!

 

[013]

hope I‘m wrong but that funky leaf curl looks like mites... mite eggs are freaking tiny so snip a fan leaf and look at underside for eggs but you won’t see them without jewelers loupe or mini microscope - there is free smartphone app called magnifyer that might work in a pinch, but you gotta prop whatever device you use since slightest movement will get you blurred images

 

[MCalata]

hope I‘m wrong but that funky leaf curl looks like mites... mite eggs are freaking tiny so snip a fan leaf and look at underside for eggs but you won’t see them without jewelers loupe or mini microscope - there is free smartphone app called magnifyer that might work in a pinch, but you gotta prop whatever device you use since slightest movement will get you blurred images

Well i think i had some aphids, but I'm not really sure (just learned aphids are mites ). Already sprayed some neem oil, potassium soap and cinnamon mix, sold as a natural insecticide. I was able to find them in the pots, haven't seen any on the plants themselves.
(Best pics i could get)

 

[013]

not familiar with all of the species but most of the aphids I’ve seen are ginormous when compared to mites.

soil mites are not always spider mites - you may be killing off beneficials

 

[MCalata]

not familiar with all of the species but most of the aphids I’ve seen are ginormous when compared to mites.

soil mites are not always spider mites - you may be killing off beneficials

hmmm, i have been aplying only to the pot iteslf, not the media

 

[MCalata]

...But something new just popped up. I'm not really sure what does this mean, it feels super dry.

Anyway another question i had is, my media is 70% peat, 30% perlite, no amendments or nothing. How often should i feed, can i feed as often as in coco/perlite mix? This plants are in 6.5 gallon (25L) containers.

Thanks!

Any help with this please?

 

[013]

I recently had tiny white or light colored soil dwelling mites, they were fast moving but they were not the standard 2 spotted spider mites. Over time I deployed a crap ton of products at the proper intervals, I used oil dormant spray, Spinosad dust, SNS 209, Neem oil, sulfur dust, frequent soil drenches etc etc. In the end the plant died and the mites lived on.

Be sure to read the labels / follow manufacturers instructions because the use of certain chemicals like oil dormant sprays & sulfur can cause a fatal reaction to the plant

If they are not attacking the plant then it could be a beneficial mite. In the end I tossed that soil out and started over with some living organic soil that I had been slow cooking. For the new soil I purchased nematodes, earthworms and hypoaspis miles which is a predator mite.

Snip a few fan leaves and scope the leaf undersides checking for mite eggs. You will not see mite eggs unless you have serious magnification. A 30X to 60X jewelers loupe costs $12 or WiFi mini microscope is $30ish or in a pinch you could try free smartphone app called magnifyer. The problem with any of these devices is stability, the slightest movement will blur your ability to see the eggs. Snip some fan leaves and prop the magnification device for stability.

If they are not attacking the plant then it could be a beneficial mite. Mine were mostly seen on the bucket rims but were embedded in the soil. I treated bucket rims, the soil and the plant itself ultimately I don’t know what would have happened if I had just left them alone. The ironic part is I tried to kill them off and lost the war only to pay $$$ to purchase more mites as predators.

Anytime you spray for pests be sure to.... elevate the plant first so you can see up her skirt, shake the snot out of your solution and use the finest mist possible then spray leaf undersides. Then reposition plant and spray from top. Otherwise if you spray from the top down your leaves will be weighted down from spray mist and you won’t get good coverage on the underside. The leaf underside is where they attach their eggs

not a pro, just a gardener here - but please consider all other opinions

 

[MCalata]

I recently had tiny white or light colored soil dwelling mites, they were fast moving but they were not the standard 2 spotted spider mites. Over time I deployed a crap ton of products at the proper intervals, I used oil dormant spray, Spinosad dust, SNS 209, Neem oil, sulfur dust, frequent soil drenches etc etc. In the end the plant died and the mites lived on.

Be sure to read the labels / follow manufacturers instructions because the use of certain chemicals like oil dormant sprays & sulfur can cause a fatal reaction to the plant

If they are not attacking the plant then it could be a beneficial mite. In the end I tossed that soil out and started over with some living organic soil that I had been slow cooking. For the new soil I purchased nematodes, earthworms and hypoaspis miles which is a predator mite.

Snip a few fan leaves and scope the leaf undersides checking for mite eggs. You will not see mite eggs unless you have serious magnification. A 30X to 60X jewelers loupe costs $12 or WiFi mini microscope is $30ish or in a pinch you could try free smartphone app called magnifyer. The problem with any of these devices is stability, the slightest movement will blur your ability to see the eggs. Snip some fan leaves and prop the magnification device for stability.

If they are not attacking the plant then it could be a beneficial mite. Mine were mostly seen on the bucket rims but were embedded in the soil. I treated bucket rims, the soil and the plant itself ultimately I don’t know what would have happened if I had just left them alone. The ironic part is I tried to kill them off and lost the war only to pay $$$ to purchase more mites as predators.

Anytime you spray for pests be sure to.... elevate the plant first so you can see up her skirt, shake the snot out of your solution and use the finest mist possible then spray leaf undersides. Then reposition plant and spray from top. Otherwise if you spray from the top down your leaves will be weighted down from spray mist and you won’t get good coverage on the underside. The leaf underside is where they attach their eggs

not a pro, just a gardener here - but please consider all other opinions

Hey 013, thanks for answering!

Well currently the only distress sign i see is the weird leaf curling/dryness, but i think she's still growing. What's weird is mostly the new growth looks weird, the undergrowth/center looks totally normal. Here are some pics of what i mean.

Anyways, my second question is can i water peat moss with no amendments as often as coco coir can be watered cause i think I'm starting to get some deficiencies, tips on some leaves are going yellow.

 

[013]

Ok so is that straight peat & perlite or is it a potting soil mix? Peat is inert, there are zero nutrients in peat to sustain a plant, same goes for perlite. If it’s just peat & perlite then it’s still technically soilless and will require bottle feeding nutes. Plain water is not cool, gonna need low dose nutes and cal-mag, ph matters too.