KJ's T5/CFL 1st Time Grow

[KarlJay]

Grow Update: Got a clone machine made, standard 1/2" PVC, HarborFreight 264GPH pump ($14) I got the Raindrip full circle micro spray jets from Home Depot and they aren't really what I wanted, they don't spray, they have small streams. So I'll get some others to add to it because I just don't think 11 of these will give the coverage I want.

Overall the clone machine was:
18 gallon storage bin $6.99
1/2" PVC 10' long + fittings was about $5
264GPH Pump $14
10 Jets $4
Total $30

It should hold about 25/30 clones, still need holders and more jets.


I'm having some issues with brown spots on some leaves, I think it's heat stress, but don't know yet.

One plant has drooping leaves, I think it was either heat stress or lack of water. All the rest seem to be doing well.

Got more string, they are fully tied down again. You can see some branches have really gone sideways and should produce more flower.

Added 4 more 100W cool CFLS and now need to get the A/C setup. Using a portable room A/C unit and setting up the vents, I have an extra window a/c but haven't set it up yet.

You can see the jets in action, clearly I'll need more jets and I don't really like the streaming type jets.

Here's some tie down pics:

 

[KarlJay]

Update: Today is water day w/nutes and the tall one from the 1st batch has had some drooping leaves for 2 days now, yet the soil wasn't ready for water till today. She has no new growth over the last two days and I'm keeping an eye on her. The temps did get into the 84 range, but I got it back down to 77 to 81 and moved her further away from the lights.

Still have a few brown spots on some leaves, but most look strong.

Had to move the lights and table over so that I can access from both sides and spaced the T5s more even because the plants are wider now.

Still got to move the wires so I don't trip on them (You know it'll happen)
Here's the new table / light layout, allows me to walk on 3 sides now.

Here's one of the brown spots that I've been finding:

Here's one showing some yellow/brown on the tips:

 

[Lester Freeman]

Subbed mate

 

[KarlJay]

Update: had a problem with the leave curling under, drooping leaves and growth stopped on one of the tall ones. I posted in the FAQ section and it looks like the pot is way too small. About 2 gallons of soil for a 20+ inch plant.

Well today, after 2 days NO GROWTH, she's showing NEW GROWTH !!

I'm looking at getting some 7 gallon pots and trying to figure out how to work wider pots into this light setup. Otherwise, I'll go with the 5 gallon pots.

Installed new outlets on the other side of the grow room and mounted a control panel. Now I have good control over lights and fans and NO extension cords on the floor or running from other rooms.

Moved the table and lights so that I can access 3 sides, MUCH better for accessing the plants in the back.

Will post a few pics soon.

 

[Lester Freeman]

You can get away fine with a 5 gallon pot.
Just an observation, it seems you really let some of your plants go wild and vertical during veg. - this may be problematic later. Some of the plants that are taller will be getting more like than the lower canopy. Recall that when you flip to flower your likely to see a decent stretching of the limbs. Just some stuff to think about, over all your plants look healthy but you may want to do some reading up on those dark stems, it may mean a nute lockout but not exactly sure I haven't dealed with that specific problem. I'd imagine you'd want to flip to flower any time now. But over all the plants look healthy mate

 

[KarlJay]

Thanks! I think the healthy part is more dumb luck than anything else

Interesting that you mentioned the purple stems, that's been going on from very near the start and I haven't a clue what it is. They grew rapid and then some of the stems became purple/green striped and the purple on several was less dark.

I suspected an MG def about week 2 and started the CALiMAGic, but the purple pretty much remained.

As far as flipping, this is my 1st time so I really don't know what to look for yet. I'd like to target 5', but I'd also like to get back all of my investment, so I really don't have a clue but probably about another week.

I really don't know why some of them grew so tall, one of the tallest was from the exact same batch as 2 of the shortest. However, I plan on running side lights and making a device to hold the CFL close to the bud sites. I have some plans for a custom welded light holder to keep the lights on the sides.

Still thinking about an HPS setup, might need one if these get close to 5' tall.

 

[wildbill38]

Subbed and reps. I like this grow setup.
Good luck with it and keep em green.

 

[KarlJay]

Thanks Bill! Looks like the luck kinda comes and goes, but overall seems to be working.

Update: This is baffling, the tall one that has been drooping and stopped growing, has made a come back. Then at the end of the last lights on cycle, she and others started drooping. I held out because there was only about 2 hours left until lights out.

Then when I start the new lights on today, the look like new fresh perky plants!

So I took a few pics to show what they look like and then I'll take some more at the end of the lights on cycle.

Note: I had the same kinda problem before, it seemed to pass after I got some better venting. I know the CO2 is used during the lights on and created during the lights off. So this might be the plants not getting enough fresh air / CO2.

I got the window A/C installed, it works great, not as powerful as I hoped (5,000 BTU vs my other one at 11,000 BTUs). The window mounted fan didn't happen, it allows light thru, so I need to make a cover for it.

So here's some pics:

Here's the cloning machine with the new spray valves, I took out the Home Depot ones because they don't spray, they stream and they don't stream up very high, pretty worthless.

The local store was out of pucks, so I just got a few to setup with.

Here's some shots of the plants from either side of the table:

Here's the window A/C

I'll put the window mounted fans above the A/C, but I need to set up a light blocker and bug screen. It's on the wrong side of the room to exhaust air, so I might have to run ducts across the room.

Here's the troubled plant, it's on the right. You can see that it's got new growth and look very good now, there's a close up of some bright green new growth and almost all the leaves are perky.

This is the plant that was drooping at the end of the lights on cycle, only to perk up nicely during the lights out cycle.

I'm confused about this!

All this growth is new. This is the plant that STOPPED growing for about 3 days, leaves curled under. They are coming up to a new watering, but the problem started BEFORE that last watering.

I want to say this is too much nutes, but it happened before the last watering, I waited a few days, no changes, watered and it started coming back to life... Now they are wilting/drooping at the end of the lights on cycle.

Could really use some insight here.

Here's the new grow bag that I'm looking at using, I'm concerned about the 1/2" holes leaking soil and the bags knocking over. Given the size of the plants, I don't know if the bags will be stable enough to not fall over.

I really would rather have a few 7 gallon bucket or bags, but the local store was out!

These are 5 gallon bags and taller than a 5 gallon bucket, I kinda wanted wider because I think the roots would like that more.

 

[KarlJay]

Just repotted the one on the right, here's a few pics of the roots. I think I found at least one problem !!!

I don't have enough FFOF for all the repots, they'll now have about 7" more on the bottom, but only about 1/1.5" on the side. These are 5 gallon plastic grow bags and are about the same round as a 5 gallon bucket, but a bit taller.

I really think I need to be in a 7 gallon pot. This is just sad and stupid, not enough soil or the right pots/bags.

Local stores didn't have any 7 gallon pots or bags.

I guess I should get the 10 gallon ones and just use as much as I need.

 

[KarlJay]

Here's the 2nd plant and a compare of the 5 gallon bag vs 5 gallon bucket. Pretty close to the same, I really think I need a wider container.

Here's a size compare of the two:

Here's a bag vs bucket:

 

[KarlJay]

I don't have enough soil to do more unless I use the MG soil, so I'll get more tomorrow.

A few other concerns, I don't know how the tape will stick to the bag and I can put the clip on lights on the bag. I'm going to have to make some other light holding device.

It might be time to build a PVC cage and place these girls on the floor.

I don't really want them down that low at this point, so I might build a shorty table.

 

[KarlJay]

Update: the plant that was drooping at the end of the lights on cycle was repotted from a 3 gallon bucket to a 5 gallon bag. She didn't droop at the end of the lights on cycle!

Got more FFOF soil, all the plants get repotted at next lights on cycle. Can't wait to see what she looks like in a few days.

I'll post some new pics soon.

 

[KarlJay]

Update: the clone machine is complete except the heater and air stone. Painted the top and sides black to keep light off the roots. I set it up in a gorilla rack shelf. This keeps it off the cold concrete floor, allows me to rest a light 10" above the machine, allows me to cover it with a mylar blanket as needed. It's filled with water and working great except I think I need to raise the pvc about 1 or 2 inches to get better flow.

10 of the 11 plants are now in 5 gallon grow bags. I'm going to have to fab up some light holders as the buckets hold lights and the bags don't. Overall I like the bags, they cost < $1 and come in many sizes. I think I'll be getting 10 gallon next time.

These bags added about 9" of new soil to the bottom and about 1" around the sides. I don't know if I'll repot again in this grow, I've seen some pretty big plants in 5 gallon pots.

Took 3 bags of FFOF to finish the repot and next time I'm going straight from baby pots to the large ones, no more 3 gallons for me . I also got them very high up in the bag this time, no wasted space at the top.

Going to cut clones real soon, don't know if I need a heater, it'll be in a room that's about 77~80 deg all day/night...

Fits nicely in the lower half of a gorilla rack. It's set for 28 clones -1 for the plug.

I noticed the rubbermaid 18 gallon has a sunken top, so any water spill doesn't go off the edges.

Sits nicely in the grow room, still allows easy access to 3 sides of the grow table.

One thing I noticed with the bags, I can't use the wooden blocks to raise the bags, I'll have to find another way to adjust the height.

 

[KarlJay]

Well it's been 2 full light cycles for the most troubled of the plants. NO water or nutes and the problem is completely GONE!

The problem: growing stopped and many leaves were drooping at the last few hours of the lights on cycle.
The solution: new larger grow bags.

The water in the clone machine has been sitting out for several days and ph'd, seems warm enough, now I'm going to take some clones.

I screwed up in the pot marking and now have 3 plants with no marks. There's only 2 strains in this growth: Mr Nice Guy & OG Rascal. I'm going to clone about 14 of each and see what happens.

The clones will be in straight clear ph'd water, no clone helpers.

Still haven't fab'd up the new light holders, my Tig welder is out of Argon and I don't have any 1" tube. I'm thinking a plate welded to about 5' tube 1' dia. Put some weight plates on the bottom of the bar, then a simple arm that extends into the grow area with bendable welding rods to hold the lights.

 

[KarlJay]

Update: Got 27 clones started, split between Mr Nice on the left and OG Rascal on the right. Most were cut from the lower at the base. All were scraped, split, no clone gels were used. I cut the bottoms off all the net baskets. It has 4 100W CFLs and is covered mostly with a mylar blanket.

I'm thinking about making another clone machine just in case these don't root, but I'll wait a week or so.

The light setup is temp, I ran out of power strips, can never have enough power strips

 

[mcloadie]

I'm subbed here sir, I like your style and igenuity, I am sure to gather a tremendous amount of knowlege from this journal...+ reps for you bro!

 

[KarlJay]

Welcome aboard! Grab a seat! Hopefully I don't screw things up.

The clones have survived the 1st 10 hours and are actually looking good.

I'll have to fab up a light tight cabinet for them once I go into flowering.

 

[KarlJay]

Another Grow Update: 10 of the 11 are repotted to 5 gallon grow bags, 27 clones were taken yesterday and are still alive! I think I need to kick up the humidity, but I'm probably building a cabinet for them because I'm close to starting 12/12 flowing and they'll probably stay in the same room running 18/6 so that won't work!

Still working with no timers, now I must get 2 and another power strip for the clones.

No nutes with this watering, a few started to have drooping leaves after 2 days since the repotting, and water was due, so I expect everything to be great in the next few days.

Here's a pic of the lights and duct/fan setup. This is the HomeDepot 6" booster fan and 25' of ducting to get fresh air into the grow room.

Here's a shot of two plants that started at the same time and are the same strain. There was a discussion about growth and the benefits of GLR, so I just wanted to do a side by side of two plants under the exact same conditions showing two very different outcomes. Not bashing, just showing an example.

Also, the outlet control panel, no more cords on the ground. I have the fans on one power strip and most of the lights on the other, makes it a bit easier to control things. Still have some work to do, but it's better than it was.

 

[KarlJay]

Just when I thought everything was going great... I watered with clear PH'd water no nutes, trimmed fan leaves and about 2 hours before lights off, they looked stressed. A bunch of leaves were drooping all over on most of the plants.

A few things I can think of:
1. the bags seem a bit loose where the rootball connects to the new soil and maybe the roots are getting moved around. I'm going to fold the sides down and pack in the soil a bit more. Basically the bags don't offer much support and it's like sitting your rootball on loose soil. My guess is that it's going to need a few waterings to pack in the soil.

2. Maybe I was too agressive on removing leaves.

3. I was guessing that the 2 on 1 off nute was good. It should be as the roots now have some fresh soil, so they really shouldn't be starved for nutes.

I also wonder if I've been in veg too long, it's been 5 weeks and the growth has slowed the past 2 weeks. I started working on the clone closet, it once it's ready, and the plants look recovered, I'm going into flower.

I might set these up on the floor because I really don't like moving them in the bags like this, with it being loose in the middle, the roots could be damaged.

The clones are doing fine, can't see any problems. The closet will handle 2 clone machines, so I'll take some more just in case any fail.

I'll post some pics of the closet, but basically it's 25" X 36" 5' tall and I'll have room for a storage shelf at the top and have two clone machines at the bottom.

 

[mcloadie]

Just when I thought everything was going great... I watered with clear PH'd water no nutes, trimmed fan leaves and about 2 hours before lights off, they looked stressed. A bunch of leaves were drooping all over on most of the plants.

A few things I can think of:
1. the bags seem a bit loose where the rootball connects to the new soil and maybe the roots are getting moved around. I'm going to fold the sides down and pack in the soil a bit more. Basically the bags don't offer much support and it's like sitting your rootball on loose soil. My guess is that it's going to need a few waterings to pack in the soil.

2. Maybe I was too agressive on removing leaves.

3. I was guessing that the 2 on 1 off nute was good. It should be as the roots now have some fresh soil, so they really shouldn't be starved for nutes.

I also wonder if I've been in veg too long, it's been 5 weeks and the growth has slowed the past 2 weeks. I started working on the clone closet, it once it's ready, and the plants look recovered, I'm going into flower.

I might set these up on the floor because I really don't like moving them in the bags like this, with it being loose in the middle, the roots could be damaged.

The clones are doing fine, can't see any problems. The closet will handle 2 clone machines, so I'll take some more just in case any fail.

I'll post some pics of the closet, but basically it's 25" X 36" 5' tall and I'll have room for a storage shelf at the top and have two clone machines at the bottom.

Coulda been any thing that caused them to droop. My plants have a happy like zone, and just before I water is their happiest time, I have watered and had them droop like that, after a while they pop right back up and grow like crazy!