Landrace Genetics 101

[Graytail]

I just harvested a DrGrinspoon and I've been tasting the early dried buds. It's Oaxacan Gold x Chocolate Thai x Panama Red, and it's a very authentic high. I have an Ace Seeds Panama purple pheno, so I know the Panama high and I remember the Mexicans well.

Your Oaxacan is gorgeous - nice treasure!

 

[Conradino23]

This is extremely resinous pheno, I assume your technique also has sth to do with this as well. Great job

 

[tropics]

Thank you Greytail.
I have heard of Grinspoon But never tried that one myself, but I have grown the ace PR It was descent, Though others I like better but if I had luck enough to get the purple pheno I am sure I would run her. Did you notice any quality difference in the purple from the rest?

 

[tropics]

Hey conradino
thank you.
Though pardon my ignorance, but idono sth?

 

[lazyfish]

I just harvested a DrGrinspoon and I've been tasting the early dried buds.

Oooohh. Which phenotype? I have one of these that I just moved into flowering and I have been waiting to see which one shows up. I am hoping for the bead type.

 

[Conradino23]

You know "something" What's your style of growing?

 

[Graytail]

Oooohh. Which phenotype? I have one of these that I just moved into flowering and I have been waiting to see which one shows up. I am hoping for the bead type.

I didn't get the bead pheno of DrGrinspoon, but I wasn't sure I really wanted it, anyway. Sptiz, another 420 grower, also ran one recently and it was a normal pheno, too, just like a typical hybrid, easy to grow. The high from mine is special.

Thank you Greytail.
I have heard of Grinspoon But never tried that one myself, but I have grown the ace PR It was descent, Though others I like better but if I had luck enough to get the purple pheno I am sure I would run her. Did you notice any quality difference in the purple from the rest?

I just ran one single fem seed, so I don't have experience with other Panama phenos, but several 420 growers have run it recently. A bud from mine won a Nug of the Month contest though. What I noticed from mine is a tendency to fatten up like an OG at the finish. I got a very piney/cedar aroma and the high was very "full" for a sativa - dense, thick, sensual.

 

[Tennessee Tim]

Please don't quit looking! I hope that somebody will continue to save some of the old sixties Lebanese strains! Would of been nice if someone had preserved more of the USA strains that once grew wild along our roadsides and in our city alleys. I received some hashish back then(early Seventies) from Christian Lebanese from near Beirut. I saw that area devastated over the last 40 years,several times, and the communities uprooted! Maybe somewhere, some of them are still growing the old varieties! With so much turmoil preserving family seed stocks intact ,without incursions of new seed stocks, for decades, has surely made them less common if not rare! I can still taste the Red Lebanese I last smoked, almost 40 years ago!

 

[tropics]

LOL THAT'S COOL!!

Mother plant from seed grown outside and finished under MARS 1200

Mother plant cut not great amount of purple

Mother Plant cut down not much purple, but there.

Seed bud of plant grown outside oddly more purple in seeded bud on same clone

Clone from same mother grown under just Stealth grow SG602 grew most purple

I grow different lighting methods but my mix is PROBX With dried chicken poop, bonemeal, and dolomite lime Watered with real light solution 1/8th teaspoon of Peters 20-20-20 1/8th tsp blossom booster and a pinch of magnesium sulfate in a three gallon watering can each watering to cover all the bases. I find Certain LED really crank up the character of the buds in terms of Color, terpene, Trich production, taste and potency. I am still amazed at the difference in color alone from the same plant using different lighting.
In fact my first really non cold enduced purple Pheno showed herself last year under Stealth Led so I grew out a number of seed from her and four plants two females and two males showed purpling in the stems at adolescence growing outside, so I bred those together to fix the purple trait.
Hope that helps

 

[Conradino23]

I reckon you've been growing these from original seed? Which generation is it now?

 

[tropics]

Hey Conradino
I got this as bagweed back in 1979 it was Mexican Sinsemilla It as lightly seeded back then there were no hype strains it was all landrace. A couple years later the same buds appeared in pics Hightimes Mag labeled as Oaxacan gold. At hat time living near the third largest coastal city in the US I was extremely fortunate to have just about all the greats. Panama red, assorted Thai sticks, loose Thai, many Jamaicans, Columbian red, golds and rainbow, Vietnamese gold , black African, and of coarse the greats out of Mexico Guerrero gold
Acapolko, Of coarse being the gardener I am and probably instilled with German farmer background I planted seed from all of these but of coarse being at latitude 45 most turned into trees that never flowered. At that time the only strains that did flower there were was some Indica strain that was just around that sometimes was weak. In the spring of 1979 I planted about ten females of the Oaxacan gold, in a guerilla grow in the clover leaf of a major highway, with the old Indica girls, Luckily I put them to the back of the patch, They towered over the others, the Indicas were cut about Sept 30 at around 5 ft tall And the Oaxacan was just really getting going. The Oaxacan finished up about the third week in Oct at about 8 to 9 ft tall And massive buds as long as a mans arm. Being in this location harvest as carried off at night, coining the phrase midnight farming. cutting started at dusk an well into the night I secured my bounty in trash bags into the back of my pickup truck, Getting back home pulling the bags out with the help of my buddy The first Buds were pulled out of the bags, I exclaimed these are not buds! These fucking chickens on sticks! and we did laugh out loud. But I was in love! There were two other tropical strains that flowered just, OK at that latitude were Jamaican Lamsbread and Maui Wowi. With all That being said, The smell of this Mexican was absolutely unique piney, hashy, carrots amazing I never smelled the likes on any other weed to this day. I almost lost her getting caught up in Dutch and BC genetics but realized this strain should not be lost So in short I kept these growing for thirty seven years.

 

[Graytail]

Fascinating! You're one of the legendary unknown private collector/archivists.

But certainly, you're not still sprouting the old seeds ... You must have inbred them for fresh seeds ... ?

 

[tropics]

Thank you Greytail
No I have been line breeding most of that time, selecting out favorite traits, But unfortunately not having fields of the same genetics for biodiversity I did have to outcross my Oaxacan because it started to suffer from inbreeding depression, by displaying slower stunted growth and the strain became extreemly prone to blight, though stayed very potent And that it was out of necessity, But the outcross dad was not picked without a lot of consideration. Trying to keep it sativa I first years ago outcrossed it to Durban But I was not satisfied with the results taking on to many of the traits of Durban so I trashed that project. Then about 5 years ago I outcrossed best females to Feds Hawian Sativa an inbred line one of my top three The first outcross was amazing retaining most of the Oaxacan traits but instilling vigor, I then bacrossed four consectutive years back to pure Oaxacan And the line is running as good as it gets with not a hint of the cross being displayed. I am very satisfied with how homogenous she is now and for all intents just like the original.

 

[Conradino23]

Nicely done!

 

[tropics]

Heads up to any one wanting a Phenomenal African landrace strain, certainly one of my three favorite strains, just on my F2S on this one now but WOW!!! Mulanje Gold from Malberry seeds, I know I heard the trash about them but, Can you say yum! Hemp Depot has them. The trick to flowering these out in ten weeks, after a four week from veg is bright light, 11.5 hour light cycle for first seven weeks then cut to 10 hours of light per day for last three weeks.

Not sure why but pics would not upload onto this post so next?

 

[tropics]

Mulanje Gold

 

[Big Sur]

I have coveted this strain for many years almost loosing it by letting her sit back burner for a few years in pursuit of all the hype strains, which didn't have much character and certainly in no way stable, in fact bred to fall apart.

Yes, I too stayed into the new strain hype, and I am throttling back to older heirlooms (ie., Ghost OG, White Widow and GDP) as well as my own seeded heirlooms and land race strains. The old sativas certainly do not stink like the new crosses do, that is for sure. My garage knocks me over when I go out there, and there are only baby and teen crosses out there. I like that indica smell though (that would make a good Frank Sinatra song, "I like that old indica smell"!).

As for breeding and falling apart, that is inherent to the genus Cannabis for all types of culture, including hemp, seeds, oil, hash making and medical. The land races were more or less stable after many decades or centuries of planting and careful selection for seeds, but cross them with other strains and WHAM! Off they go into a genetic array of mayhem. You also have to be careful in selection of plants for seeds, or they will go native and adapt to local conditions (and usually degrade in quality for whatever you are growing it for). A lot of these heirloom and more recent cross seeds are often times degraded and less than what the strains used to be. I went through several GDP clones to get a 'real' good one.

 

[tropics]

Hello Big Sur
I think you are correct About the Inherent nature of strains to fall apart, certainly the process is far less rapid for stabilized or landrace stains and agree with you on plants reverting back to a weedy or feral nature that would occur more rapidly without proper selection. But many of the hype strains of today I tried didn't make it past the f3's For instance I grew NL #1 all was great by the f3's it grew leafy poor bud development, which translated to bad taste, lower yield and low potency. Same issues with Mango, Durban and many many others. Also agree with less than optimal growing conditions can lead to degradation to some of the best strains, My experience with that came with my oaxacan, First of many years I grew fully outdoors, then I moved to rural mountain area where the seasons were much cooler and shorter, So I adopted taking them in and finishing them up the last several weeks under artificial light problem solved. Just like wine there is good years and not so great years outside which can affect the quality. but with grass as you know being mostly annual change in the genetics can happen quickly with such an adaptable plant. And I agree that other factors that degrade strains to feral. for instance I give great seed to a buddy of mine, who is very sloppy about labeling and grows different strains and every year a male or two gets by him and usually the scrawny male he did not see in the back of the patch. But he continues to grow the mish mash seed and every year a number of his plants are crap. Anyway pleasure meeting you. I am curious and if I may what landrace strains do you keep?

 

[Conradino23]

I crossed Colombian Punto Rojo to my Ultra Dog (an indica leaning hybrid I got from Cali) this year and hope for some good bud. I also got thousands of F2s from my UD mothers, and hope to stabilize it into F3 or even F4 in the next few years growing for outdoor purposes only. Anyway, I side more and more with oldtimers every year after I grew couple of landraces. They have character which is unmatched by modern hybrids, even these ones topping the charts in High Times or whatever. I've recently sent some of my Colombian bud to my grower friend in SoCal, and he came back with a review. He got higher than he gets on wax he said, 1/4 of a joint and he was stoned out of his mind Last time when I bonged it I was tripping for 6 hrs at home

 

[Conradino23]

Aah I just wanted to drop this thing, kinda attach this old topic with catchy title Smokin' some of my own dry sift, and I'm still impressed how creeping what I got can be I think that ultimately there's no such a thing as an ultimate bet on what is better sativa or indica but tastewise there's definitely a lot to work with I actually heard but it just might be one of these growers paranoias kinda rooting around that Green House is collecting landrace genetics just for the sole purpose of keeping them for future towards taste breeding when they cap THC levels. Well I don't know if it makes sense but as I just said...

How Can I Contribute as a Sativa Breeder?