Landrace Genetics 101

[Big Sur]

EDIT: I was hasty in my submission. Yes I concur on the origins of OG Kush being from the south east coast. Typical for it to band over to the south west coast.

No biggie. Most agree that the original OG (Ghost or Kush) was bread in Florida, and later passed along to the MMJ guys in SoCal that bread the subsequent OG family tree out with great gusto. Most people seem to think that Ghost was the parent though, and OG Kush was a selfed seedling. The names are interchanged a lot though. Ghost, Ghost OG, Ghost OG Kush, OG Kush. Not that it matters to me. The original or a selfed seedling will be nearly the same genetics. Or should be from a somewhat stable parented plant. The ratio of indica to sativa on what is sold as "Ghost" is all over the map: 70/30, 50/50, 40/60, pure indica, yadda yadda. Its a clone of legend, which it why I bought it. It also smells cool, and it was a steal. It now has its own CFL "sun" and will be cloned this winter, of you want one to TC. I am certain of it being the real deal from a reliable MMJ source.

In terms of the nasty GMO talk. I too share that same nails on the chalkboard feeling. Hairs on the back of my neck stand up! I felt like I was in the presence of someone void of empathy or any type of emotion in general. Pure hunger!

I think that if Global Warming does not do us all in, GMO will. Roundup Ready AMD-DuPont MJ strains, from sterile seeds which do not root when cut. Yah, I have to have those! And when those genes escape into the wild, and are passed onto other species, well, who cares? We will be rich, I tell you! Rich!

 

[Big Sur]

...Now what about Colchicine..I just heard about using this on weed... I was kinda floored to read about all it does.So are all new super strains (Bomb comes to mind) been contaminated with this stuff? Would Landrace strains also be Pre Colchicine? As tempting as it seems ,It just doesn't sit well with me. Soaking seeds in this stuff and then the first grow could make you sick??? WOW, some Wild stuff out there .Thanks Red

Colchicine was likely not used on any strains until about 1980. Its been around for a lot longer than that, and was tested in the 1940s, but not used on any pre-1980 native landrace strains (that I am aware of). I do not think that plants grown from treated seeds would harm you. Nor would smoking weed with treated seeds in later generations. Polyploid straining was and still is very common in orchid breeding to produce larger and more vigorous plants. In Cannabis, polyploid strains tend to revert back to diploid over time. Poly plants also tend to flower later and longer.

As an aside, my mother was given an RX of Colchicine a few months ago for treating a gout attack. Supposedly it is hard on the kidneys, and they tested her kidneys before they gave it to her. It worked for her gout attack though. I would not worry about it.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Tennessee Tim if I was a 420 admin that post would be a sticky already, though they might have to invent some new section for it. I'm not sure what... Historical Canna-Rant category maybe. + reps for that - awesome

 

[Big Sur]

I was just reading about that Thai Stick strain... Extremely long flowering time, something like 15 weeks.

Several things about landrace Thai strains. One is that they are sativas, another is that they flower late and take a long time to flower, like Colombian. They also are notorious for being herms.

My experience with Thai was that it was always around during the VN war in the form of skinny narrow sticks. It was prevalent in NorCal in the 1960s/1970s through military bases like Ft Ord, with GIs bringing back a lot of Thai sticks on tours in VN and Korea. In the later 1970s it was imported by Thai people working in restaurants and hotels. They were very easy to bundle, smuggle and transport. That type of Thai had a clear high and was rather strong. Supposedly Maiu Waui was sourced from Thai seeds from those sticks (many GIs were quarantined and mustered out in Hawaii after tours in VN). Later on a different type of Thai became available in NorCal in the 1980s. They were a lot larger bundles the size of cigars tied on the sticks, and the high (or rather low) was very narcotic, like lowland Colombian gold. I could not smoke the later Thai without passing out. It was like African weed to me. I have landrace seeds from both types in my collection. I would not want to grow it here though. Late and hermy. Better suited to Hawaii and southern Mexico?

 

[Conradino23]

I think it's the time I post this few pages from "Orange Sunshine: The Brotherhood of Eternal Love and Its Quest to Spread Peace, Love and Acid to the World" by Nicholas Schou as he documented the best how Maui Wowie came about in Hawaii. It was a cross of landrace sativa from Sinaloa and Afghan Kush. The Brotherhood was getting a lot of seeds for free when they were buying their hash in Afghanistan to smuggle into USA, and their Mexican was hand picked by a druglord called Papa who was based in a village above Guadalajara!

 

[Tennessee Tim]

That is pretty much the way I remember Thai sticks coming into my area as well. I had buddies who stuffed bundles into their take home stuff(tv's, stereos) during the Vietnam War days and flew it back on military planes.I also experienced a change to a more narcotic high on the last of the sticks I encountered here. I did grow out seeds from Thai sticks back then but threw out my seed stock later when I got hot one time and paranoia set in. It thrived along the banks of the Mississippi River especially, and the Red River(in Arkansas and Tennessee). Our hot humid climate seemed to suit it well! I had some terraces cut into bluffs with a south western exposure above the swamps below, that grew the most true to form and was most excellent! I am too paranoid to grow it outdoors anymore and more of the land is fenced/posted large corporate holdings leased for hunting and scrutinized better nowadays. It was all Sativa here, definitely! Soldiers/sailors also were major importers of Red Lebanese, Black Afghanistan Hash and Hindu Kush by way mostly of connections made in Germany, Italy and other major overseas post in Europe.

 

[Tennessee Tim]

Sorry guys for ranting in the middle of your interesting conversation! I got pretty wasted while sitting there reading and it just flowed out! I seldom get the chance to talk to anyone about these things.

 

[Big Sur]

Sorry guys for ranting in the middle of your interesting conversation! I got pretty wasted while sitting there reading and it just flowed out! I seldom get the chance to talk to anyone about these things.

Rant on brother! I know what you mean. I cannot talk to anyone here about this stuff. This is all SciFi to a lot of people.

 

[lazyfish]

Rant on brother!

Yes! Please do. That was a wonderful read.

Thanks Tim.

 

[Tennessee Tim]

One of the wonderful things about Marijuana is that there is a huge supply of variations/cultivars for us to discover and play with around the world, until Monsanto gets in the act at least! My biggest fear in recent years has been, a conspiracy to introduce gene altered Marijuana, that may infect the world with strains useless for pleasure, tension relief, pain therapy, etc. and destroy that Wonderful aspect of one of God's greatest botanical gifts by infection with it's "Frankenstein" genes! For all you guys who are studying cultivars and qualities of them , Thanks! Just be sure to keep watching for and attacking Monsanto and their congressional lackeys, however and whenever possible! Maybe in a few years we can have trials for their executives for crimes against humanity, along with our war criminals(judges, prosecutors, DEA officials/etc.) in our government , who have persecuted their fellow citizens for growing /using natural plants/traditional herbal medicines ! God forgive them!

 

[Heirloom]

Science has already created such a bastard.

My biggest fear in recent years has been, a conspiracy to introduce gene altered Marijuana, that may infect the world with strains useless for pleasure, tension relief, pain therapy, etc. and destroy that Wonderful aspect of one of God's greatest botanical gifts by infection with it's "Frankenstein" genes!

What really pisses me off is when people who should know better screw up original landraces.

I'll pick on one seed producer in particular. The owner of this particular company likes to call himself the King of Cannabis (BTW...if you self proclaim yourself the King of anything, you are merely the King of Douche bags). He and his following jet around the world collecting rare, pure land race genetics. That's all well and good except they aren't being released to the public. Instead keeping them under lock and key. Not tooooo bad until you realize that they left all these local farmers feminized seeds from their collection of hybrids. What do you think that is going to do to the pockets of pure genetics? That's right. In true kingly fashion the self proclaimed King of Cannabis, and others, are going around leaving bastard children in their wake, forever polluting the pure populations with their DNA. Oh, and when there aren't anymore pure landraces, guess who has a lock on all original genetics?

It pisses me off so much I feel compelled to take all their strains, self them with colloidal silver and offer free fem seeds to anyone who wants them...stop funding their destruction of the worlds landraces.

sorry....

/rant

 

[Conradino23]

That's true, they collected Malawi Gold, Colombian Punto Rojo, Colombian Lime Verde, Nepalese Highland, Jamaican Lambsbread, and they absolutely DO NOT DO ANYTHING with these seeds although Franco said last year on the Emerald Cup they were going to do it. Fortunately there are more honest people in this business.

 

[Graytail]

they left all these local farmers feminized seeds from their collection of hybrids. What do you think that is going to do to the pockets of pure genetics? That's right. In true kingly fashion the self proclaimed King of Cannabis, and others, are going around leaving bastard children in their wake, forever polluting the pure populations with their DNA. Oh, and when there aren't anymore pure landraces, guess who has a lock on all original genetics?

... reminds me of smallpox-infested blankets ...

I didn't know he was doing that - that really sucks!

 

[Weaselcracker]

Rant away guys. I couldn't think of a more rant-worthy topic. Out of all the crazy stuff that humans are doing on this earth - the fact that greedy people have been allowed to piss in the gene pool and patent seeds, and steal and corrupt things which belong to all life on earth, is so fundamentally wrong that just thinking about it gets my blood boiling.
Seems like there could be an entire sub-forum devoted to this topic...

 

[Big Sur]

Hah! Well, fortunately the king of douchebags, his BIL and others have not touched my stash of landrace seeds. Nor will I sell out to the likes of them. My seeds grow true to landrace form, are unaltered and genetically unmolested. My latest crop of Mexican sativas are harvested now and curing, and they smell like pine and lemon. Light and sticky, supposedly from Morelos, but I think they are original sourced from Oaxaca. The Oaxacan that I have grown before had a similar look and smell, but a tad more minty. They bloomed here starting Sept. 10, and they only took 5-6 weeks to mature. I traded with several medical growers here in Oregon for my male pollen, and so the non-douchebagged genetics is getting out there.

 

[Heirloom]

My latest crop of Mexican sativas are harvested now and curing, and they smell like pine and lemon. Light and sticky, supposedly from Morelos, but I think they are original sourced from Oaxaca. The Oaxacan that I have grown before had a similar look and smell, but a tad more minty. They bloomed here starting Sept. 10, and they only took 5-6 weeks to mature.

This sounds very, very much like what I grew this year. I got a random bag of seeds from a friend in So. Cal after I moved away. He grows his own but isn't a 'grower' like you could say about us. He has no idea what it was. Anyhow, there are a lot of variations but one of the two main phenos that popped up more than anything else was sativa heavy, often with pine, citrus and sometimes hints of mint. Oh, and they flower out faster than I expected.

It's clear to me that what ever strain this was, it was a hybrid that has since inbred several generations. There's a shorter bushier pheno, very indica.

 

[Conradino23]

I got 2 different phenos off my Jarilla de Sinaloa this season. One is spicy/tea/minty smelling, nice smoke but shitty tasting and not very potent while the other one smells like pure lemongrass after curing and will get you stoned in kind of upbeat/stimulating way.

 

[DrZiggy]

amazing thread... thank you!

 

[Kalimaki420]

great read thx guys

 

[Big Sur]

Southern Mexican landrace strains tend to bloom early and rather fast, compared to northern Mexico strains, and of course Colombian and Panamanian strains. The southern Mexican strains are from Michoacán, Guerrero, Oaxaca, Morelos, Puebla, and South Jalisco. Oaxaca strains tend to have a fairly strong minty smell to them. Some early Big Sur weed growers planted some of my Mexican seeds and they tended to have pine, citrus and mint tastes to them. The growers attributed it to the surrounding pines that were in the grow area (Monterey pines). They thought that the MJ plants were picking it up. It seems more likely that these were (or are) actually genetic attributes. Of course where/how you grow it and how you cure it affects the taste and smell as well. Early Mexican was all sativa. Most Indian ganga was also sativa, as was Thai and early Colombian. Indica (a bad name for it, as it is/was actually from Afghanistan) was not common in California imported weed in the 60-70s and there were not many seeds for it available around there then. They came on the scene later and were popular in cross breeds because they bloom earlier and tend to be higher in THC. My indicas bloomed 3 weeks earlier than my southern Mex sativas this year, starting in late August. The sativas starting blooming the second week in September.

When you cross sativas and indicas, you are apt to get a wide variety of phenos in the F1 and F2 generations. With haploid plants, each parent is contributing half of its genes, which are then randomized in the formation of the seed. A lot of traits are recessive or dominant. For example, the wide leaf of indica is recessive. Purple leaf/stem/calix coloring is dominant. Early/late blooming, tall/short stature, strong/weak THC, etc. are other genetic traits. Sex is also determined by genetics, but... (a huge BUT!) fem seed plants can be induced to become herms or even males. This is one thing I do not agree with Rosenthal about. He claims that sex is completely determined when the ovum is pollinated. However, the Dutch have show that males and herms can occur from fem seeds. So there are other variables to influencing sex in MJ than just genetics. I have forced all males from fem seeds myself in less than ideal conditions. I have also gotten seeds in otherwise all female plants that threw a few random male flowers. They can be sneaky! These seeds in turn tend to produce herms as well (even in ideal growing conditions).

This sounds very, very much like what I grew this year. I got a random bag of seeds from a friend in So. Cal after I moved away. He grows his own but isn't a 'grower' like you could say about us. He has no idea what it was. Anyhow, there are a lot of variations but one of the two main phenos that popped up more than anything else was sativa heavy, often with pine, citrus and sometimes hints of mint. Oh, and they flower out faster than I expected.

It's clear to me that what ever strain this was, it was a hybrid that has since inbred several generations. There's a shorter bushier pheno, very indica.