Lets Talk Coco! Organics & Salts

[s1ingblade]

yes letting the coco dry out too much will cause wild ph swings,best to keep it moist, i too have ruined a few by lazy neglect

Yesterday I went to work and noticed a small og kush clone in the tiny 1L airpot. It was wilted with two others. So I made up some solution for em and two of three bounced right back. After an hour I noticed the one not picking back up and I a$$umed I forgot to water her the time before so shes gone and went to hell in the burn barrel. Luckily I needed to cull a lil more cause I still have more plants than I have lights for.

 

[Propa Gator]

Having excess rooted starts is good, and a grower has to comfortably cull... selectively.
Balance between limiting factors and excess availability of ingredients yields the best results.
In all things, this is true. In all of my growboxes, space has been the limiter, the most expensive ingredient.
More tight plants or fewer large? What system to light with, and how bright. What about shit and poison?

As for drying up between waterings, this works for outdoor cultivation, where more water is always available to the deepest roots. With coco coir however, water can and should be available always... and right there where the roots are. Root production is not the point of growing weed. Once roots take in moisture, they are mere conduits. Longer pipelines are not better, just more costly. If all the water & nutrients that growth can use is taken up a short distance from the stem, what is the rest of the root mass good for? If extra excess roots rot it will hurt, but how can it possibly help? Limiter of root participation in growth is how much can go up the stem. Outside of stem is for leaf/chlorophyll produced sugar(energy) going down to the root building/maintenance sites. Root weight is mostly water anyway, so when you throw them away at the end, you're not losing much. Or have you lost something along the way? At least sensimilla plants don't have to energize a seed crop.

 

[elious]

Subbed! I'm interested in learning about coco and its benefits compared to soil.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

welcome E. i love coco and soil growing, my exp is coco is versatile you can use it straight (with a little calmag or dolomite lime) for a passive hydro or as a soil amendment to up air & water retention, or anywhere in between! i grow with coco always, i have an all coco batch in flower running a hybrid of regular and organic, in veg i have some high end soil with coco in the mix, im attempting a high brix style with the next run ,and i will be doing a small vs test it will be coco vs 2 different soils (sunshine mix #4 & earth juice amazon bloom, ) i will detail this more in my current journal (5.1)

 

[elious]

So I could use it as a soil substitute? I have another member on here that has convinced me to give it a try and I want to but I'm just not sure where to start. So if I don't mix soil with it (which I wouldn't really want to do because, what's the point right?) what kind of advantages do I have by using coco? I have experience with soil, so what kind of things would I need to know about coco that doesn't apply to soil?

 

[BigIrishDoode]

So I could use it as a soil substitute? I have another member on here that has convinced me to give it a try and I want to but I'm just not sure where to start. So if I don't mix soil with it (which I wouldn't really want to do because, what's the point right?) what kind of advantages do I have by using coco? I have experience with soil, so what kind of things would I need to know about coco that doesn't apply to soil?

coco by its self is in essence "passive hydro" since it's a nearly inert medium, so advantage 1 would be accelerated growth vs soil, coco likes to lets say alter the calcium and magnesium performance, rather than give a lengthy explanination i'll just say that you may need to add extra calmag during the grow, or you can do what i do and mix in a teaspoon per gallon of coco, and forget about it, you can run your favorire nutes mine are blue planet nutes, i mix up according to the schedule ph it to 5.8 and feed till i get 10% or so runoff, it holds 8 times its weight in water,yet allows an insane amount of air in the rootzone, its practically impossible to over water in coco in well drained pots, i like smartpots & airpots, hempy's work excellent too, i like to add some pearlite for extra air and fluffier texture, many growers run it straight no calmag or pearlite and using tap water (full of calmag) with no issues,, you can also run organic nutes and use mykos as coco will support the microbial life needed to break down the organics, (hybrid coco organics ) best of both worlds, with a short learning curve you can grow some amazing top shelf meds in coco, flushing is faster in coco i do 3 days, if theres a problem its a snap to flush and correct a problem vs soil that takes longer, i have done half soil half coco with outstanding results too, give it a shot i think you'll like it. oh and its cheap,reusable (just rinse old coco thoroughly and reuse) and this is the right place for coco "nut" questions!!

 

[elious]

By adding perlite would that make a need for more frequent watering/feeding? About how long does it take for ...say a 3 gallon pot to need a watering? Lets say 80 degrees and one foot tall plants on a 18-6 veg schedule? Well, let me ask you this, do you test for the need of water the same ways you test soil? You know, the weight test or the finger depth test... So if you use tap water you don't need cal/mag. Were you referring to dolomite lime when you said to add a table spoon per gallon and forget about it?

 

[BigIrishDoode]

the best way i have found for watering is daily,you want to keep the coco moist it pulls o2 down into the coco, i do food 1 day ph'd water the next,repeat, with small plants under 8-10 inches you can skip a day, i dont really do the lift test since im watering daily, if coco dries out it can cause wild ph fluctuations, the stuff i use is from homie d, "epsoma garden lime" in a green & white bag, theres a pic on the first page of my first journal, i add 1 tsp per gallon of wet coco, i also add azomite its a mineral supplement that plants love it has 70+ trace minerals, coco can and will absorb some calcium can cause a cal/mag defiency, so add some before or during (sometimes both) the grow, i add pearlite up to 50% depending on how fine the coco is, it can range from very fine to very chunky, idealy i will get some of each mix them and i dont really need the pearlite, but i have grown in fine pith coco with no pearlite and it went just fine, i imagine it might droy out a bit faster with the pearlite, but again i dont let it dry out, so its a matter of making it lighter and fluffier, i like that since they seem to grow even faster, i have added worm castings, time released ferts, compost, all sorts of stuff in the end it all works as long as you dont go to crazy adding to much stuff, coco is pretty easy to get great results, ,i always add it to soil if im doing a soil grow, sometimes i get tired of ph'ing and do an all organic soil grow to get a break from it, but im always blown away at how fast they grow in coco after doing soil,,i top my coco and soil with an inch or 2 of hydroton it helps hold water,roots will grow right below the clay pellets (more roots more fruits) many pests dont like it and you dont get "watering dents" so ive never done the finger depth test, i just water everyday, it wont hurt them quite the opposite.hope that helps

 

[SmokzAlot]

In my garden of green it is the opposite. I use standard plastic planters with a drain hole and bottom cap. Most often I run straight coco and use the weight method to judge conditions. Pay notice to how heavy it is when dry at first planting for a baseline weight. Most days I water every other day or possibly 3rd day. Depends more so on temp and humidity conditions. When I get to the 3rd recycle of my coco I either add more fresh coco or perlite to extend its life. I prefer to add fresh coco as it more or less is a perpetual recycle that way. Each time picking up on the established bene base that has established itself. I find the 2nd and third grow to be just peachy. The exception would be propagating nasties if they have installed themselves. Example: fungus nats if they have moved in. then its time to dispose and start fresh. Its not worth the headache of fighting them off.

I used to use hydroton on the top as well, but have since stopped as I grew tired of cleaning the hydroton for reuse. Let alone loosing it in the coco. I have no negligible loss in plant growth by not using it. Pour the liquids slowly into the medium to avoid digging. If the surface is dried, dampen it before a full water application and it will reduce erosion of the surface. I do this by lightly watering, wait a minute then a full water.

Oxygen is pulled in to the medium every time water runs through it or into it. One can use a well draining medium or container and water more frequently or as I the other end of the spectrum. I feel constantly wet does not allow maximum O2 intake, by letting it dry to a safe point (never wilting) I get what I believe is max infusion of O2 in my setup. Depending on your nute concentration you can feed every time or run a heavier feed and feed straight water in between.

Cal/Mag supplementation is a must in coco, else it will rear its ugly head. Although the need diminishes with recycled coco. Various ways to address that issue as well. Always more than one way to skin a cat.

Overall I find that I can grow in smaller containers with coco due to its phenomenal root growing environment. After the plant is in full flower I usually have to water every other day to daily in my GOG.

Garden temps of 75-80F seems optimal in coco, have had success in the 80's as well. I try to keep day night temps within a 10-15 degree swing.

 

[Propa Gator]

Keeping a KISS grow is easy with coco. I'm one of the tap water guys, but that garden lime sounds good. I've a couple old bags of perlite I've been dissing, but your results say I can just go ahead and use it no sweat, except the dust when I pour it dry out of the bag. Also, the speckled white stuff makes makeing it disappear when I'm done with it problematic. Reuse, I guess. Only thing might be better there is bubbler or flow hydro. Coco is almost as cheap as tap water, and is more forgiving & flexible than water culture. I have starts that have been in 4" pots too long and they are big and still healthy though have not been fed any nutes yet. Sloppy of me, eh? My tap water must be like Prego spaghetti sauce, "It's In There", but is it so good for me? I should collect rainwater and get a Berky unit for drinking, but my plants like the tap.
Chlorine, Florine, and all

 

[Mr Messy]

Hi guys. I'm the new guy.
I'm just about to use coco coir foe the first time and am watering with a Tropft Blumat ceramics drip sensor system in 28lt air pot. Thanks for the info within this tread and ill post any thing I get from the new grow
Cheers.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

all excellent info, and some good points brought up i failed to mention

 

[Crzywhte69]

Hey guys i got a question to anyone of you reading this. How far do you keep your hids. I got a 600 and im setting up for flower and want to run a scrog. So basically im wondering if i should set it at one height or set it up so i can adjust it along the way. Ive noticed with the duct work for an air cooled hood its a pain to raise or lower lights. Should i have more ducting to play with?

 

[Propa Gator]

How far do you keep your hids?

Your light's distance should be adjustable, and anywhere you set it overhead the distance will be different for every plant, depending on it's angle to the light. Different branches and leaves will each have their own distance. The point source Sun is the same, but 93 million miles makes small differences moot. I grow my flowering plants in a circle around the bulb hanging vertical to give them all an equal share. What distance is that? How big is my grow space, how many plants fit, how big of a bulb can I buy & energize. I saw what others did, and copied at first. Try a 4' sq box, 8 plants, 600 watt HPS. 18" to 24" from a bare vert bulb seems to be a good zone. 360* use of bulb's power is efficient. My bulb enclosure is the 4' box, and airflow is one key to success.
If I let them bush out towards the bulb, the 600 will yield to a 400. Keep them tied back and pruned enough.

 

[SmokzAlot]

Light placement

So many variables when it comes to light management. Open fixture vs closed makes a big difference. I find it best to learn to read the signs of being to close. Easiest way to achieve this is by starting at the shorter distance and watch carefully. A good rule of thumb is to stick your hand in at the top of the plant, if it seems to burn you then it will most certainly burn your plants. You will soon discover what works for your garden.

Temperature, air flow, and humidity can have a big effect on lighting conditions as well as how hydrated the plants are. A fan alone will allow a closer proximity as well. There is no hard safe measure when trying to get the max to the garden. One could easily put it at a more than safe distance but then you are sacrificing light quality by not maintaining a movable light for optimal placement. Yet there are times when you may move it farther away to encourage some stretch or to minimize output to young plants like seedling and clones. You will soon see everyday can be and should be a learning experience.

I feel one of the biggest mistakes made is a lack of penetration in a congested garden. Wattage, distance, and number of plants has a big bearing on light penetration. I am an advocate of defoliation for this reason as well. With judicious and controlled defoliation one can pack a garden pretty tightly. Rotating plants daily to share the wealth of light to all sides of a plant. I also tend to place my plants in a bowl like configuration around a horizontal fixture to accommodate various growth rates and balance of lighting.

In my garden I run 600w horizontal open fixtures at about 12"-18" with a fan, as long as I keep things hydrated and temps under 80 degrees F. I hope to convert to air cooled eventually for obvious reasons. Let it be known there is some loss when using a closed fixture, its a matter of how you wish to manage your garden. To relate this to coco I can run higher garden temps than a hydro garden which would require the additional expense of a chiller to maintain a nasty free environment.

 

[BigIrishDoode]

im using a dual 600watt closed fixture system with a 465 cfm inline fan ,i have a fan blowing across the tops between the lights & plants, my plants seem to like the setup my lights are anywhere from 18 -8 inches from the plants depending on age & height, i constantly move my plants around so the all get time in the sweet spots im running both mh & hps and about double the required lumens/watts for a 4x4 tent, light it defo not my biggest limiting factor, it would be temps,they will be getting to high soon im pushing it at 80-88f right now, an ac is destined to happen

 

[DrOfDank]

Hey guys i got a question to anyone of you reading this. How far do you keep your hids. I got a 600 and im setting up for flower and want to run a scrog. So basically im wondering if i should set it at one height or set it up so i can adjust it along the way. Ive noticed with the duct work for an air cooled hood its a pain to raise or lower lights. Should i have more ducting to play with?

Good question. I'm running 1,000 watts, air-cooled, and I don't know. lol I never measured it. I stick my hand under there and if it's too warm for my skin, I raise it up. Now, I've got a SOG set up, so I move my babies in and set them up in the middle, directly under the light. In two weeks, I'll move them to the side and bring some more in, so the light's maybe 18 inches or so from the top of the canopy on the sides, but anywhere from 18 to 36 from the top of the one's going through their stretch, depending on strain, growth stage, etc. I just go by what my skin tells me, as well as what their top leaves and buds tell me.

 

[Propa Gator]

What you do BID, is the way. Daily attention and moving them around a bit, as separate pots allow. Perfect numbers may not exist to 'set it and forget it'. Like performing music there is no ideal to hit and be perfect, but if it looks and sounds good everybody can be happy

 

[BigIrishDoode]

What you do BID, is the way. Daily attention and moving them around a bit, as separate pots allow. Perfect numbers may not exist to 'set it and forget it'. Like performing music there is no ideal to hit and be perfect, but if it looks and sounds good everybody can be happy

thank you mr gator, i just like spending time with the ladies so i tinker, self serving ,and problems get found fast minimizing devastation, i will do a vert like you do in the future i would have done so already had i gotten the cool tube first, but now greed for light (i like dual jdl's!) makes me postpone, but it has always intrigued me to see how i would do with a vert sog or scrog
i just tell ppl use as much light as you can afford & keep cool, if i had a enclosed fixture for the 400 i would add it to the 4x4 ! crazy overkill perhaps....i wanna do it!

 

[Hiker]

BID you water everyday!

I have my 20 potential moms in 1G plastic pots with a mix of coco,perl, and vermiculite (I realize it's redundant with coco but I have used it before so...). I water FAR from everyday. They have been in the pots for at least 2 months. I'm trimming them back a lot, so they are less than a foot tall still. That being said, they can go a week between watering with no signs of stress.

I'm in the camp that thinks drier is better. Maybe it's the same reason I favor flood & drain over DWC
IMHO the struggle is always to get air to the roots moreso than nutes or water.