My First Grow - Is This Normal?

[Fuzzy Duck]

Fan leaves - I believe their are two schools of thought to this...


To trim or not to trim, that is the question never near shakespeare smoked weed


A leaf of any size will do one job & thats photosynthesis

Plants need to photosynthesis because this is how they make their own food, as they cant eat like we do. They use sunlight energy, water and carbon dioxide to make glucose, which is a form of food. Plants that photosynthesis contain chloroplasts, which contain the chemical chlorophyll. This traps the sunlight and is a fluid. The trapped energy is stored in the stroma. The Hydrogens from the water, H20, is combined with CO2, in the Calvin cycle, and glucose (sugar)is produced. The food is then used so that the plant can make energy so it can live and respirate.

Read more: [Photosynthesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A little trim does very small amount damage but by removing to much may result in smaller yields.

 

[Mark30g]

So basically then they needs the fan leaves and small leaves to grow stronger then is it and thanx for the link m8 cheers

 

[jandre2k3]

Week it was the stressing of being transplanted from soil to hydro which I no was not the best move to take, to lazy to wait for more seedlings to be done but in reality the seedlings would ov vegged for 2-3wks by the time they had came around.
Also what can you please tell me about fan leaves(as on these 2mj's I had removed had removed all around the 4th week which I think was wrong) so any help/advice on this would be great thanx, Because on the others (late developers) there now getting bushy and tall so that's all good thanx

heheh, there is some great debate about this. Fuzzy made one point that argues the "Keep Them" side of the argument. However, I tend to play Advocatus Diaboli, in order to get the full argument.

I posit that when fan leaves are removed, you remove the the biggest detriment the plant has. The fan leaves can get very large and as it is the job of these leaves to trap light energy, they block the light from the leaves and the buds on the lower branches. If the lower buds, and the surrounding leaves do not get light, they do not perform as well. Fan leaves, therefore, when they get too large, can actually hinder the performance of the overall plant, and stunt the yield that would otherwise be larger. I have witnessed, that when all of the fan leaves are removed that shade the lower buds, those buds get almost the same size as the buds in the upper regions of the plant, thus reducing the "popcorn" buds the plant reduces.

It can also be stated that ALL plants, when damaged in some way show a tendency to increase growth. This can be observed most in the group of plants we call herbs. Take basil for instance, If I leave my basil plant alone, while it looks quite happy in its little pot, it grows along at a regular rate and seems spindly. When I trim the upper portions of the plant, the more it makes new growth to compensate for the lost parts.

With all that in mind, it seems to me, that while it is the job of the fan leaves to trap light and thus create food, if you remove those that are shading the rest of the plant, the grower will be rewarded with an overall improvement of plant bulk, and yield.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Thats a valid point jandre2k3

I am more of leaf man tho, but none the less i have a few new plants in veg and i shall put this to the test when its comes to their turn for flowering in the near future.

If you don't try or experiment, you do not learn new stuff.


I can see what you mean about small density buds on the lower branchs on my own grow of indica dominate bubblelicious at the present time, i shall play with the pruners in due time

 

[Mark30g]

Have only just noticed but on the late bloomers there are 7&9 leafs as I only noticed between 5&7 but not 9 must be happy the.
Getting excited now as I reckon 1 more week and should be done starting to see more hairs turning colour but trying not to be in the room so much so I'll check with my microscope tomorrow or the day after.
One word AWESOME this is watching the changes of the dif phases and I so can't wait for the chop/smoke haha as the dealers are taking the piss u no trying to sell weed what is no where near done piss takers.

I will say that it will be such a shame to chop but can't wait for all to finish as I'll be moving my grow tent to a different place, and I'll have a veg room or a mum for clones we will see.

 

[Mark30g]

PICTURE UPDATE AND SMOKE REPORT Yesterday i was in grow room and was turning the buds are around and as it goes a bit of tough love lol, So i turned most of the buds to get the light to the lower buds(increase my yeild maybe) and a nug came of and below is the picture of it. So to be honest it looks better than what ppl have been trying to sell lately. But i have decided to continue with the flush as i can still see a few white hairs/pistols which are mostly amber ish like more amber hairs than withe hairs. Also when i looked thru the microscope i could see that the triches are starting to get cloudy so i will leave it and continue the flush.(thinking of it yesterday when i watered it i could see colour of the nutrients coming thru so i gave it another emergency flush obviously after it had dried out from the first flush and a normal watering so i felt i had'nt done it properly the first time round). Questions lol, So do ppl continue to do the flush as and when it needs to be watered then? as i understand it will stress them??? any advice would be great on this thanx.
Smoke Report; The nug in question had 24hr to dry out a lil/mostly and when looked at i could not see many triches(even tho they are there) and were cloudyish. But when i put it into my grinder(my first thoughts were was it dry enough? as i felt it when i broke the bud in half and appeared so) (my miss's first thought s were that looks amazing/much better than what we been having ain't it babes lol). Grinded down was a surprise to us both as it grinded down AMAZING and when the miss's and i smoked it she enjoyed and could not smoke any more for fear she'd be stoned in work pmsl, So i had the spliff to myself (like she said i deserved it lol) and it outed really quickly thus telling me it was not dry enuff and smoked it smooth and then a strong after taste which i presume was the nutrients not being flushed properly, It was harsh but enjoyable and i am very pleased with it as i know once the flush is done that harshness will be gone and the lingering taste.

 

[jandre2k3]

PICTURE UPDATE AND SMOKE REPORT Yesterday i was in grow room and was turning the buds are around and as it goes a bit of tough love lol, So i turned most of the buds to get the light to the lower buds(increase my yeild maybe) and a nug came of and below is the picture of it. So to be honest it looks better than what ppl have been trying to sell lately. But i have decided to continue with the flush as i can still see a few white hairs/pistols which are mostly amber ish like more amber hairs than withe hairs. Also when i looked thru the microscope i could see that the triches are starting to get cloudy so i will leave it and continue the flush.(thinking of it yesterday when i watered it i could see colour of the nutrients coming thru so i gave it another emergency flush obviously after it had dried out from the first flush and a normal watering so i felt i had'nt done it properly the first time round). Questions lol, So do ppl continue to do the flush as and when it needs to be watered then? as i understand it will stress them??? any advice would be great on this thanx.
Smoke Report; The nug in question had 24hr to dry out a lil/mostly and when looked at i could not see many triches(even tho they are there) and were cloudyish. But when i put it into my grinder(my first thoughts were was it dry enough? as i felt it when i broke the bud in half and appeared so) (my miss's first thought s were that looks amazing/much better than what we been having ain't it babes lol). Grinded down was a surprise to us both as it grinded down AMAZING and when the miss's and i smoked it she enjoyed and could not smoke any more for fear she'd be stoned in work pmsl, So i had the spliff to myself (like she said i deserved it lol) and it outed really quickly thus telling me it was not dry enuff and smoked it smooth and then a strong after taste which i presume was the nutrients not being flushed properly, It was harsh but enjoyable and i am very pleased with it as i know once the flush is done that harshness will be gone and the lingering taste.

Is this the one in the Hydro? If so, just keep giving it water, no nutes. It's not that it wasn't done properly. Plants toward the end of their life start returning to the soil/medium the things that they have taken up and stored. This should be washed away so an over-saturation doesn't occur so as to let the plant return as much as possible. Also, the plant will start to eat itself. during the flush. It's not just a one time thing, it needs to keep happening and NOT GIVE ANY NUTRIENTS AT ALL for the last two weeks of their life so as much of the built-up stuff can be washed away. The plant will use up the rest it doesn't return, and hopefully give a better smoke. Also, bud that is not properly dried, then cured will be harsh and have a bitter aftertaste. These three combined, I can see why you had a hard time with the li'l you had. The thirst time it outed, I would have salvaged the rest, jarred it in a small jar and let it cure a bit, while burping the jar every day, until it came up to par.


Be patient with your plants and resulting product. They'll do you good, but only if you do them good.

 

[Mark30g]

No this is the soil 1, the hydro was less asle to flush as it only needed it once where as the soil nutrients had to be flushed again, and will i continue to flush a directed according to size of pot or just water with pure water with a 10% run off?. Also i think i have left the flush to late and was thinking once pistols/hairs and the triches are done should i leave her in 48hrs of dark or could it handle more as i wanna get rid of stored nutes untill the leaves start eating away or have i left it to l8.
Curing so if one person hasn't flushed properly they could cure it to get rid ov the harsh ness from the nutes.
Also i read some where that you can chop the bottom of the stem and let the plant suck up the water as i was thinking to do this and leave in the attic maybe next week when all signs of triches and pistols are done as i was thinking to leave in the soil for 48hrs in the attic(so im not disturbing the rest of plants) and then after that i might cut her at the bottom of the stalk and leav for another 24hrs to 48hrs so she can continue to decade away mthus getting rid of all stored nutrients would this be fine . would love to hear some feed back of this and thanx for all your advice m8

 

[jandre2k3]

No this is the soil 1, the hydro was less asle to flush as it only needed it once where as the soil nutrients had to be flushed again, and will i continue to flush a directed according to size of pot or just water with pure water with a 10% run off?. Also i think i have left the flush to late and was thinking once pistols/hairs and the triches are done should i leave her in 48hrs of dark or could it handle more as i wanna get rid of stored nutes untill the leaves start eating away or have i left it to l8.
Curing so if one person hasn't flushed properly they could cure it to get rid ov the harsh ness from the nutes.
Also i read some where that you can chop the bottom of the stem and let the plant suck up the water as i was thinking to do this and leave in the attic maybe next week when all signs of triches and pistols are done as i was thinking to leave in the soil for 48hrs in the attic(so im not disturbing the rest of plants) and then after that i might cut her at the bottom of the stalk and leav for another 24hrs to 48hrs so she can continue to decade away mthus getting rid of all stored nutrients would this be fine . would love to hear some feed back of this and thanx for all your advice m8

Okay... You want to give it nothing but water for the last 2 weeks of flowering. This is known as "The Flush"

"The Flush" as it is referred to when considering harvest time is not the same as a soil flush to remove an over-abundance of something to correct an imbalance. It is more flushing the plant itself, and forcing it to feed on foliage, rather than relying on root uptake. If all a plant gets at the roots is water, then the natural process of eating itself happens, and excess nutrients that might have built up within the plant are used up and foliage dies off as a result.

This is done for two purposes:

1. To ease in cleaning the buds
2. To remove excess chlorophyll from the plants

The first is obvious, if there's less foliage (Fan Leaves) there's less to clean up or trim off for the dry/cure process.

The second is a little less obvious, and is often missed. Has anyone ever tasted chlorophyll? It sort of tastes like a multivitamin dunked in saline solution, then in simple syrup (not maple syrup)... If there is an overabundance stored in the supporting structure of the buds, when vaporized and freed from the vegetable matter and inhaled, it can cause irritation, and a bitter taste. This, along with any other impurities that might be left in the plant without the flush cause an overall unhappy smoking experience.

Not all the chlorophyll will be removed, nor can it be from anything green. But, a reduction in the amount of such in comparison to the volume of vegetable matter can, in itself, create a more enjoyable smoke. Not to mention the plant using up any other available raw nutrients within the stems, and main trunk for the other life processes, that would otherwise transport to the buds as they dry.

It needs to be done CONTINUALLY for the last 2 weeks of the plants life. In other words, no nutrients AT ALL need to be given the plant, at all. Just water. That's it.

 

[Mark30g]

Thanks for that Jandre really appreaciate it, Also i would like to ask as my light cycly is slowly droping to 8hrs on mon/tues and how many times do you think my drip system should come on for 2 or 3 times and when i change my reservoir on mon/tues or i might just throw in some fresh water and sort out the ph and but then i think fresh nutes at a much lower ppm for a week and then maybe start the flush.
Surpring how much the bud shrivels up but awesome

 

[jandre2k3]

Thanks for that Jandre really appreaciate it, Also i would like to ask as my light cycly is slowly droping to 8hrs on mon/tues and how many times do you think my drip system should come on for 2 or 3 times and when i change my reservoir on mon/tues or i might just throw in some fresh water and sort out the ph and but then i think fresh nutes at a much lower ppm for a week and then maybe start the flush.
Surpring how much the bud shrivels up but awesome

At 8 hours of light, it is not uncommon to want to drop to 2 times a day, but don't do this. They will be putting on massive weight with that much darkness to build the flower hormone. Water, water everywhere, and every drop to drink!

WATER ONLY during The Flush. Once at lights on, once at the four hour mark, and once 15min before lights off to get them through the night. Watch your humidity during the day, though, don't want to deal with damned BudRot.

 

[Mark30g]

Thanx Jandre2K3, also I gather I must give the 1in hydro that's being flushed nothing but water there times a day then yes m8.? Also I reckon they the nearest 2 have about a week left and all the others from up2 maybe 2-4Weeks so if I feed one more time then they should be ready in time for the final harvest. So basically during flowering then a plant has about 2-3wks of stored nutrients. So I will feed one last time and not bother to change the reservoir. What about my air pump? Should be good for the flush in the hydro.
Can't wait to get my next grow started as I won't be using bagseed Eva again I think I'm knowledgeable and confident enough to spend on some grade A seeds and have proper buds dence as fuck and not loose like the ones I got. Also I will not be using soil but can't wait to try out my 5gal DWC should love me haha . So far that would be four Mj's in my Wilma 4pot and 1 in my DWC 5gal all in my 1meter square tent under 600HPS should be plenty of space as I do not want them crammed and may be have from for there smaller pots that have just vegged and continue to do say 3 each month as I want to some for 4-6Oz each month eventually. So I'll be looking for either a small say 60cm veg tent but not to sure wagtail lights I need for the veg stage. I'll chuck a fan or 2 but mght not bother with the extraction fan but if needs it then I'll be getting it a.s.a.p any thoughts as I want every thing right the next grow temps/humidity. I have also been looking at purchasing that Amazon spray mister for clones/seedlings as I wanna give en the best start in life. Would love to hear your thoughts or advice and views. Thanks.

 

[jandre2k3]

Thanx Jandre2K3, also I gather I must give the 1in hydro that's being flushed nothing but water there times a day then yes m8.? Also I reckon they the nearest 2 have about a week left and all the others from up2 maybe 2-4Weeks so if I feed one more time then they should be ready in time for the final harvest. So basically during flowering then a plant has about 2-3wks of stored nutrients. So I will feed one last time and not bother to change the reservoir. What about my air pump? Should be good for the flush in the hydro.
Can't wait to get my next grow started as I won't be using bagseed Eva again I think I'm knowledgeable and confident enough to spend on some grade A seeds and have proper buds dence as fuck and not loose like the ones I got. Also I will not be using soil but can't wait to try out my 5gal DWC should love me haha . So far that would be four Mj's in my Wilma 4pot and 1 in my DWC 5gal all in my 1meter square tent under 600HPS should be plenty of space as I do not want them crammed and may be have from for there smaller pots that have just vegged and continue to do say 3 each month as I want to some for 4-6Oz each month eventually. So I'll be looking for either a small say 60cm veg tent but not to sure wagtail lights I need for the veg stage. I'll chuck a fan or 2 but mght not bother with the extraction fan but if needs it then I'll be getting it a.s.a.p any thoughts as I want every thing right the next grow temps/humidity. I have also been looking at purchasing that Amazon spray mister for clones/seedlings as I wanna give en the best start in life. Would love to hear your thoughts or advice and views. Thanks.

Okay, for the Wilma. Change out your nutes for water in 1 week, but keep the drip stakes out of the two almost finished. Keep doing it the hard way to water those two, no nutes, threex/day.

Cloning doesn't require expensive equipment to do it right, it requires attention to detail. For Cloning read this. It's my little how-to. For a real life example of it, go here

As far as a Vegie bin, I have that as well. It's sort of a rough start, but it shows how to improve from meager beginnings. For that go here. You will see a Bare Veg bin transform over time to a high-powered hydro Maternity Ward. And there is not tent, no expensive equipment, and it's COMPLETELY DIY.

As for your flower needs I have a How-to on making a flood and drain system that is currently supporting my test box. For that go here


All these are just MY example of doing what is right for me. It works well for my style and both the Maternity Ward, and the Flower Bin are easy to clean, and break completely down between cycles in under 5 min for a thorough cleaning. I can have both completely scrubbed down, rinsed, sanitized, reset, and running in about an hour. Really only the sanitizing is what takes most of the time, as I like to let it sit in my sanitizer for 1/2 hour while I clean the areas up and sanitize those as well. And all of it is completely DIY again. I spent probably 300USD total for my Maternity Ward and my Flower box together. And most of that was lights.

 

[Mark30g]

Thanx for clearing that up m8, also would you say this is about right as I have been observing my oldest plants tomy youngest and want to time the flush just right but as there from bagseed would this be around the time to flush once the swell starts after/before the first stage of hairs appearing you no when she swells changes colour slowly on her pistols. When the pistols go from White to creamy and before the start of the hairs going Amber. Any advice woulda be great thanx

 

[jandre2k3]

Thanx for clearing that up m8, also would you say this is about right as I have been observing my oldest plants tomy youngest and want to time the flush just right but as there from bagseed would this be around the time to flush once the swell starts after/before the first stage of hairs appearing you no when she swells changes colour slowly on her pistols. When the pistols go from White to creamy and before the start of the hairs going Amber. Any advice woulda be great thanx

Okay, you're mixing up hairs/pistils with trichomes again. Hairs turn color from green/white to some other color whether red, orange, blonde, brown, or purple depending on strain.

The trichomes are what you're looking for. They start CLEAR AS WATER, then go milky/creamy, and finally amber, and are very tiny. These are what look like glittering dust or spots of dew or crystals on the calyx, leaves, and everywhere around the bud site. Under magnification (50x or more), they look like hairs with a little bubble of moisture on the very tip top. THIS is what to watch when considering harvest.

There is a variation in when to start the flush that is dictated by the flower time of each plant. I understand that you're growing bagseed and you have no idea the flower time of yours. So to keep it simple, when 25% of the hairs have turned their color, start the flush. Then, it's time to watch the trichs. They will go from clear, to milky, to amber as the flower matures. When 50% of these have gone from milky to amber it is time to harvest.

Now, depending on your personal taste, you can harvest earlier or later. If you are wanting more of a "Couch-lock" effect, wait a little longer to harvest about 55% to 65%. If you are wanting more of a daytime cerebral effect, harvest earlier at 40% to 50%. Either way do not harvest too early, or too late. Too early and the THC will not be strong enough yet, and too late, the THC will have degraded too much.

Be patient with this, and try not to rush the process. The Mother gave us these plants, but at a cost of understanding nature. There is no way at all to do this without careful observance of the life of the plant. If ever you are in doubt about the harvest, post close-ups of the the largest buds with as many trichs as possible and we will help you know when it is time.

 

[Mark30g]

Aww that's an awesome post and I didn't mean to say hairs at the end and obviously my mistake confusing the 2 but I do realise that there both different from each other. And the hairs are getting darker but the Triches are milky but not just yet Amber. Thanks m8. Also when I dried a lol but out then put it into a jar to cure it for a few days removed the lid twice each day and it smelt sweaty making me not want to do it again but I have read the cure methods end I believe it weren't dry enough for the cure process to work. So what do the cure actually do then m8 as I realise that I'm better of doing so.

 

[jandre2k3]

Aww that's an awesome post and I didn't mean to say hairs at the end and obviously my mistake confusing the 2 but I do realise that there both different from each other. And the hairs are getting darker but the Triches are milky but not just yet Amber. Thanks m8. Also when I dried a lol but out then put it into a jar to cure it for a few days removed the lid twice each day and it smelt sweaty making me not want to do it again but I have read the cure methods end I believe it weren't dry enough for the cure process to work. So what do the cure actually do then m8 as I realise that I'm better of doing so.

Damn! I love these questions you ask. I know once you get through your first complete cycle from seedling to smoke, you'll have more questions. It shows a desire to achieve the most from your grow and wanting to fully understand your chosen "hobby".

Okay, as you go from chop to smoke there are various methods of getting there. Most that I have seen on here, and the method that I have always used, is to hang the stems until they snap and then cure in jars burping one or two times a day. This is done for several reasons but first I will explain the mechanics of it all.

When you chop, the plants are still "Wet" and retain way too much moisture to actually go straight into curing, so we let them dry for a few days on the line. This is done by simply hanging the full stem, upside-down on a string, evenly spaced, in a ventilated area, to remove excess moisture before it molds. They stay hanging like this until they snap. The way I make sure they are ready, I try to bend the stem just below the very last bud toward the TRUNK SIDE of the stalk (where it was cut from the plant). If it simply bends and cracks a bit, it's not ready yet, and once it snaps, it is time to take it down. Do this for each stem you have and do not just test one stem for the whole harvest. This is done to both quickly remove excess moisture, and to even the amount of moisture between the buds on the stem.

Once the stems come down, it is time to remove the buds from the stem and jar them up. Carefully cut each bud from the stems as close to the flowers as possible. Put these loosely in a jar and do not pack it in to begin the curing. This is the most important step in the process. Curing will slowly dry and mellow the trichomes and slowly remove most of the rest of the moisture that needs to come out from the buds. Once in jars, careful attention is to be paid to the bud and inside of the jar. If a slight haze or fog collects on the inside of the jar, open it up for an hour or two to let the moisture dissipate. This is called "Burping" and is done because while the point is to dry the buds, we don't want to do it too quickly and ruin the quality. Also we burp instead of just letting them sit in the sealed jars so mold doesn't grow and ruin the finished product. The trichomes need to be cured to their "sticky" state rather than just dried out, which will make them almost like sugar crystal dry. This can only be done at a very slow rate, otherwise, if they dry too quickly and will ruin the quality of the smoke. As a general rule, the cure will take anywhere from three to five weeks depending on your environment, to be done properly.

The reason this is done is for several reasons. First, wet buds don't burn, and dry buds burn too quickly. The point is to get a nice, even-burning product that is satisfying and and as full-flavored as possible.

Speaking of flavor, have you ever smoked bud that ripped your throat out and tasted like shyte? It was dried too quickly and not allowed to cure properly. The properly cured herb will have a complex flavor profile and should (to smokers at least) smell yummy and taste just as good.

Also, if improperly cured the smoke will be harsh and irritating to the throat and lungs. Of course some strains are predisposed to harshness, but the cure reduces this as much as possible. A smooth inhale and easy exhale is most desirable to the smoker, as opposed to the hacking cough that accompanies most improperly and sub-standard bud. Granted some coughing is expected, but an excess of this is annoying as hell, but also alerts passers by of your actions. Also, this can lead to other pulmonary problems if coughing constantly just to medicate.

I know this was a bit wordy, but this is where most growers and co-op suppliers go wrong. They focus on high yields and fast turnover and unfortunately, we as patients, often suffer because of an improperly cured or fast cured product. As a patient, and as a grower, I cannot stress the importance of a proper cure too much.

 

[Mark30g]

Agh i see now where i went wrong trying to rush it to save me money lol But also it explains alot to me like why it smelt not so good (you no like proper bud does) as it smelt very weedy/leafy. Also i hate it when the smoke i have bought is very harsh and you struggle to take another tote very frustrating it it and i do not want my meds to turn out like it lol . Also what about the 24-48hrs darkness before the chop? is it recommended and if so do the narmal night time temps apply or would it need to be colder than usual. Appreaciate all your advice/help

 

[jandre2k3]

Agh i see now where i went wrong trying to rush it to save me money lol But also it explains alot to me like why it smelt not so good (you no like proper bud does) as it smelt very weedy/leafy. Also i hate it when the smoke i have bought is very harsh and you struggle to take another tote very frustrating it it and i do not want my meds to turn out like it lol . Also what about the 24-48hrs darkness before the chop? is it recommended and if so do the narmal night time temps apply or would it need to be colder than usual. Appreaciate all your advice/help

hmm... Good question. This particular subject is up for much debate. Some people prefer 24-48 hours darkness, some don't. I personally have no opinion on the matter.

As for the temps, I can say that it helps purples gain their much sought after color. It would also stand to reason that as harvest grows near, the temperatures drop with the changing of the season so plants would be spurred for final fruiting with a week or so of cooler temperatures at night. I, myself, have only done this with the purples to bring the color and that wonderful aroma we lovingly describe as "purple". I would encourage you to do lots of research and review EMPIRICAL DATA, and not just what people say they think, to come to your own conclusion. Also, I would try both ways several times to get your own data to come to a more informed decision as to which works best for you...

 

[Mark30g]

So I have just purchased my new cool tube and need some suggestions on how to set up as I have a big main extraction fan and a small intake fan and not to sure where it going to go. Do I leave the one end open and let the main fan on top suck the hot air. As I guess I'm going to need some sort of double 5"inch holes as 1 for carbon fan and the other for the cool tube. Is this right or wrong