TinkerFarms
New Member
Ok so I am just someone who likes to know all I can about growing so here is a quick question...Is growing organically vs Chemical?
Organic vs chemical growing
- Thread starter TinkerFarms
- Start date
That's a great question.
I am a nutrient grower (chemicals) and I believe I get a great, effective and potent product. There are a number of nutrients that focus exclusively on bud boosting or bud steroids that help to produce bigger better buds. I have no regrets about what I've chosen and I'm certainly impressed with my product.
Now with that said, maybe I'm right out in left field when I say that you will be hard pressed to find a chemical grower tell you they can produce better more potent buds then a 100% organic grow, grown to the same standards. Because all of those boosters and steroids provided by nutrient producers are commonly found products or by-product of living organisms and therefor natural.
Maybe the buds will be similar in potency and efficiency but the organic grower didn't use anything harmful to them or the environment. And even though you can do a decent flush, is the nutrient grower getting all the shit out? I can tell you first hand that you don't get it ALL out. And did you dispose of your plant excrement in such a manner that doesn't effect the environment or put a strain on the water system. Then I have to ask "How does one do that?"
Great question, hopefully there are some passionate growers on both sides that can spark up some debate and (respectful and professional) argument.
All the best!
I am a nutrient grower (chemicals) and I believe I get a great, effective and potent product. There are a number of nutrients that focus exclusively on bud boosting or bud steroids that help to produce bigger better buds. I have no regrets about what I've chosen and I'm certainly impressed with my product.
Now with that said, maybe I'm right out in left field when I say that you will be hard pressed to find a chemical grower tell you they can produce better more potent buds then a 100% organic grow, grown to the same standards. Because all of those boosters and steroids provided by nutrient producers are commonly found products or by-product of living organisms and therefor natural.
Maybe the buds will be similar in potency and efficiency but the organic grower didn't use anything harmful to them or the environment. And even though you can do a decent flush, is the nutrient grower getting all the shit out? I can tell you first hand that you don't get it ALL out. And did you dispose of your plant excrement in such a manner that doesn't effect the environment or put a strain on the water system. Then I have to ask "How does one do that?"
Great question, hopefully there are some passionate growers on both sides that can spark up some debate and (respectful and professional) argument.
All the best!
- Thread starter
- #3
TinkerFarms
New Member
I am thinking that I want to try my first time growing 100% organically. Right now I am using a soil that has a name of Organic potting soil it says on the bag. NO nuts sense I am not looking for a profit so I am not in need to grow pounds or anything
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
You won't have to worry about pounds of pot if all you got is a bag of potting soil. 
To get the kind of yields from organic growing that you can get your first time out with good hydro nutes and a simple system like DWC you really have to know your shit. Sheep shit, chicken shit, bat shit etc etc.
All joking aside my hat is off to some of these organic guys. Incredible plants with undoubtedly better nuances in flavour and smell that I have really never had the pleasure of partaking. I probably have in the past and not even known it but where I live now it's all street pot or my own. I've tried various street pot that friends have bought but I haven't bought pot in over 20 years. Bought a vial of QWISO off a friend's brother and it wasn't bad at all but I make better myself and it was more to be polite than out of need.
Last week at a buddy's he had some and twisted one up. Gag me with a spoon! Tasted like crap on the hit and the aftertaste was even worse. Unflushed, quick dried, harsh throat burn and I'm sure there was some sort of pesticide residue on it. I worked as a chemist in a hazardous waste disposal facility for a few years and developed a bit of a nose for crap like that. He said he liked it so I twisted up one of mine and he wasn't so happy about his purchase any more.
People refer to hydro nutes as chemical when they are no more chemical than what the organically grown plants are eating. Plants can't eat organic stuff as it is until bacteria and other members of the micro-herd have eaten it and converted into the same kind of nutrient salts that plants can actually use. There are a lot more things in all the various ingredients used in dirt that I hear give organic pot a more full bodied flavour and more terpenes that enhance the smell but as for any more medicinal value I doubt it but can't state that as fact. I have read studies that compared organically grown vegetables against hydroponically grown ones and they found higher levels of important nutrients in the hydro grown.
Growing great pot organically is as much a science as it is an art and to do it truly well it takes a lot of knowledge in a lot of subjects and usually many years of devoted growing. You still need to know a lot of stuff to grow well with hydro but the learning curve is not as steep or as long.
Chemistry is the basis of everything. Your body, and your plants, are chemical factories running hundreds if not thousands of processes at any given time.
Every time I hear some fervent, born again, self-righteous organic zealot beak off about how hydro is unsustainable and organic is earth friendly I just wish they could see my eyes rolling. Bat and seabird guano, peat moss etc are the way to go they cry. Tell that to the devastated bat populations that are dying off from a fungus that researchers know is being spread by humans. Guys going from bat cave to bat cave collecting the guano to sell at outrageous prices. Seabird guano harvesters that destroy thousands of nests because they can't wait to get it before someone else does. Peat bogs which are some of the richest wetlands on the planet and do more to help the environment than 1000s of Green Peacers living large on donators dimes are mined and destroyed. I worked at one in Ft. Langley, BC 40 years ago. What a wasteland.
Compared to what global demands for natural resources do to the planet us pot growers, be us organic or hydro, take but a drop out of a very big bucket. So lets all chill out and share a fattie!
L8r
To get the kind of yields from organic growing that you can get your first time out with good hydro nutes and a simple system like DWC you really have to know your shit. Sheep shit, chicken shit, bat shit etc etc.
All joking aside my hat is off to some of these organic guys. Incredible plants with undoubtedly better nuances in flavour and smell that I have really never had the pleasure of partaking. I probably have in the past and not even known it but where I live now it's all street pot or my own. I've tried various street pot that friends have bought but I haven't bought pot in over 20 years. Bought a vial of QWISO off a friend's brother and it wasn't bad at all but I make better myself and it was more to be polite than out of need.
Last week at a buddy's he had some and twisted one up. Gag me with a spoon! Tasted like crap on the hit and the aftertaste was even worse. Unflushed, quick dried, harsh throat burn and I'm sure there was some sort of pesticide residue on it. I worked as a chemist in a hazardous waste disposal facility for a few years and developed a bit of a nose for crap like that. He said he liked it so I twisted up one of mine and he wasn't so happy about his purchase any more.
People refer to hydro nutes as chemical when they are no more chemical than what the organically grown plants are eating. Plants can't eat organic stuff as it is until bacteria and other members of the micro-herd have eaten it and converted into the same kind of nutrient salts that plants can actually use. There are a lot more things in all the various ingredients used in dirt that I hear give organic pot a more full bodied flavour and more terpenes that enhance the smell but as for any more medicinal value I doubt it but can't state that as fact. I have read studies that compared organically grown vegetables against hydroponically grown ones and they found higher levels of important nutrients in the hydro grown.
Growing great pot organically is as much a science as it is an art and to do it truly well it takes a lot of knowledge in a lot of subjects and usually many years of devoted growing. You still need to know a lot of stuff to grow well with hydro but the learning curve is not as steep or as long.
Chemistry is the basis of everything. Your body, and your plants, are chemical factories running hundreds if not thousands of processes at any given time.
Every time I hear some fervent, born again, self-righteous organic zealot beak off about how hydro is unsustainable and organic is earth friendly I just wish they could see my eyes rolling. Bat and seabird guano, peat moss etc are the way to go they cry. Tell that to the devastated bat populations that are dying off from a fungus that researchers know is being spread by humans. Guys going from bat cave to bat cave collecting the guano to sell at outrageous prices. Seabird guano harvesters that destroy thousands of nests because they can't wait to get it before someone else does. Peat bogs which are some of the richest wetlands on the planet and do more to help the environment than 1000s of Green Peacers living large on donators dimes are mined and destroyed. I worked at one in Ft. Langley, BC 40 years ago. What a wasteland.
Compared to what global demands for natural resources do to the planet us pot growers, be us organic or hydro, take but a drop out of a very big bucket. So lets all chill out and share a fattie!
L8r
quemedica
New Member
A proper mix of peat, manure, shrimp, kelp and worm castings, for which there is an abundance of, and there is no need for any guano. It beats the environmental impact of chem/nute production any day.
Give the recipe in my sig a try and watch what happens when your plant's roots reach down into it. Granted if speed of growth from seedling/clone to mid veg is an absolute must, then hydro is the way to go.
This might be a stupid question but- Can we define 'Organic'?
quemedica
New Member
I believe what the OP meant is soil vs hydro, but I could be wrong.
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
I totally agree that there are many sustainable ways to grow organically. (I was just using those things as an example that we are all sinners so nobody should be throwing stones.) That's how we do our veggy garden and the stuff we get out of it tastes great. We have 3 compost heaps about 2 cubic meters each. 2 cubic yards for the metrically challenged. All the household veggy waste goes in, piles of poplar leaves and the output of manure and straw that 30 chickens can make. Each year one pile goes in the garden and a new one is started. Lots of clay here so it really helps to put all that roughage in there.
I like my growing to be real easy and as simple as possible so growing with good hydro nutes does that for me. I plan on growing autos next year and a lot of them will get our garden stuff but most will be in harder to get at places so hydro nutes will work better as there will be water at each location. Dugouts. Lots of them here all over the back roads. They dug out big pits to use the clay for roadbed up to 100 years ago. They fill up with water and every farm has at least one. I have a large one on my acreage. 80x50x4m but don't want a bunch of pot on the property as I'm pretty out in the open on a highway.
I'll check out those links.
L8r
Great post OMU!!!
Brought things to light I had never thought about:
Such as the bat populations and peat moss stolen from the wet lands. Of course there's a bigger picture to every frame!
Thanks for bring that up!
Brought things to light I had never thought about:
Such as the bat populations and peat moss stolen from the wet lands. Of course there's a bigger picture to every frame!
Thanks for bring that up!
- Thread starter
- #10
TinkerFarms
New Member
Organic meanin only water and organic soil
Robert Celt
New Member
Both soil and hydro can be done chemically or organically. It is all a matter of preference what way you choose. As OMU stated, no one way is better than another.
I prefer an organic super soil that I only need water and watch for minor deficiencies. Magnesium deficiency is the only one I have encountered as of yet and I add Epsom salt to my water when I find a plant needing.
As for one method being "more" environmentally friendly than another, the only way anyone could really claim that is if they were totally self sufficient and bought nothing for their grow. We all contribute to environmental contamination in one way or another when we purchase our grow supplies. As such, even though I prefer organic grows, I have to agree with OldMedUser:
"Every time I hear some fervent, born again, self-righteous organic zealot beak off about how hydro is unsustainable and organic is earth friendly I just wish they could see my eyes rolling."
I prefer an organic super soil that I only need water and watch for minor deficiencies. Magnesium deficiency is the only one I have encountered as of yet and I add Epsom salt to my water when I find a plant needing.
As for one method being "more" environmentally friendly than another, the only way anyone could really claim that is if they were totally self sufficient and bought nothing for their grow. We all contribute to environmental contamination in one way or another when we purchase our grow supplies. As such, even though I prefer organic grows, I have to agree with OldMedUser:
"Every time I hear some fervent, born again, self-righteous organic zealot beak off about how hydro is unsustainable and organic is earth friendly I just wish they could see my eyes rolling."
Yeah I feel the same as you OldMedUser. I live in a remote paradise and hunt and fish and live off the land to a degree most people wouldn't imagine. Thankfully where I live still has a lot of wild food, and the freedom to live this way. I have animals cranking out the manure, compost piles in my yard, and gardens fertilized with kelp, manure, compost, and old fish remains.
If it was Hawaii I would just grow outdoors.
Instead I use Hid lights which are not organic. They run on electricity. I'm using sunshine mix to grow even though there is a lot of peat moss where I am. I just haven't had time yet to order up some perlite, etc and process a bunch into my own version of sunshine mix. When I have to get to somewhere far away I drive my not organic car. I use bottled Botanicare nutes. I first got into using those because I was told that they're 'organic'. I'd like to grow in real soil I just haven't had time to sort it out. And I'm trying to be consistent and figure out how to best use the system I have before I switch.
We are all like this to some degree. I'm going to check the box for 'organic' though.
If it was Hawaii I would just grow outdoors.
Instead I use Hid lights which are not organic. They run on electricity. I'm using sunshine mix to grow even though there is a lot of peat moss where I am. I just haven't had time yet to order up some perlite, etc and process a bunch into my own version of sunshine mix. When I have to get to somewhere far away I drive my not organic car. I use bottled Botanicare nutes. I first got into using those because I was told that they're 'organic'. I'd like to grow in real soil I just haven't had time to sort it out. And I'm trying to be consistent and figure out how to best use the system I have before I switch.
We are all like this to some degree. I'm going to check the box for 'organic' though.
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
Saboteur! 
Ha ha! To be totally honest I don't even know/understand what the poll question is... Have I derailed the train?
What is it???!
Geez - another dumb question sorry I'm a little retarded he he he
What is it???!
Geez - another dumb question sorry I'm a little retarded he he he
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
Organic is a very wide definition and statal regulations as well. Oxford Dictionary says: "Relating to or derived from living matter" or "(Of food or farming methods) produced or involving production without the use of chemical fertilizers, pesticides, or other artificial chemicals". Then what USDA considers organic is very different from what organic is considered in European Union or China or Brazil or Nigeria. It's all about selling the term in the right way to the farmers and the consumers. This concept usualy involves spike in price cause organic product is supposed to be better. But guess what? It's usually the same or doesn't differ much from the one produced in a conventional way.
Now saying this I've been growing weed as well as vegetables in my garden for a long time using LOS or TLO principles and methods. Basically what you care about with this type of grow is microlife, your tiny helpers in soil which should do what fetilizer companies do for you by chelating your nutes. Yes, both synthetic (in salt form) and organic ones. So for me growing organically means providing healthy, balanced soil in which microlife can thrive and some biological additives to correct the nutrients balance. Nothing chelated here unless it's been chelated by nature itself.
But that's not all of it, cause how are you able to figure if you're doing everything right? Well, here Brix scale comes in help and so called High Brix or nutrient dense gardening. By using refractometer you know straight away if your plants are tipping the scales so to say, if they produce right amount of carbohydrates derived from carbon, and if they're mineral content is right. Basically cannabis starts to be considered High Brix when the leaf juice tests at 12 Brix and above. Hydro experts do not usually go above 10, cause it's almost impossible in hydro setup, and that's why their product is worse or bland tasting. The same with synthetic nutes cause when you sterilize the soil your microlife cannot help you much, and your plant loses a lot of cation uptake benefits.
And minerals of which calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, sulphur, iron and zinc are the most important pave the way for the rich terpenes production by cannabis flowers, and that translates to excellency in smell and taste department. It doesn't take a 100% organic approach to get that, but synthetic compounds should be limited to the necessary minimum. Still I get High Brix plants 99% organically, so it can be done. I don't say I'm 100% organic, cause even in rain there can be some synthetic residue, effect of open ecosystem.
Now saying this I've been growing weed as well as vegetables in my garden for a long time using LOS or TLO principles and methods. Basically what you care about with this type of grow is microlife, your tiny helpers in soil which should do what fetilizer companies do for you by chelating your nutes. Yes, both synthetic (in salt form) and organic ones. So for me growing organically means providing healthy, balanced soil in which microlife can thrive and some biological additives to correct the nutrients balance. Nothing chelated here unless it's been chelated by nature itself.
But that's not all of it, cause how are you able to figure if you're doing everything right? Well, here Brix scale comes in help and so called High Brix or nutrient dense gardening. By using refractometer you know straight away if your plants are tipping the scales so to say, if they produce right amount of carbohydrates derived from carbon, and if they're mineral content is right. Basically cannabis starts to be considered High Brix when the leaf juice tests at 12 Brix and above. Hydro experts do not usually go above 10, cause it's almost impossible in hydro setup, and that's why their product is worse or bland tasting. The same with synthetic nutes cause when you sterilize the soil your microlife cannot help you much, and your plant loses a lot of cation uptake benefits.
And minerals of which calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, sulphur, iron and zinc are the most important pave the way for the rich terpenes production by cannabis flowers, and that translates to excellency in smell and taste department. It doesn't take a 100% organic approach to get that, but synthetic compounds should be limited to the necessary minimum. Still I get High Brix plants 99% organically, so it can be done. I don't say I'm 100% organic, cause even in rain there can be some synthetic residue, effect of open ecosystem.
99% of the refractometers on earth can be traced back to one factory in China, an industrial hellhole which has claimed the lives of hundreds of workers and polluted the surrounded area for hundreds of years to come...
Nah I'm just kidding. Actually the High Brix method sounds like a wonderful way to define your plant's health and happiness. For our own selfish gain of course. And if we are kind to our surrounding nature in the process that is even better, and more important. As I get older, it's pretty difficult for me to see in black and white anymore, as I used to when I was younger. We all walk a balance when it comes to how organic we are.
Nah I'm just kidding. Actually the High Brix method sounds like a wonderful way to define your plant's health and happiness. For our own selfish gain of course. And if we are kind to our surrounding nature in the process that is even better, and more important. As I get older, it's pretty difficult for me to see in black and white anymore, as I used to when I was younger. We all walk a balance when it comes to how organic we are.
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