AK-47 great strain - did one from Serious Seed's ( or breeder of)
Pruning effects on yield?
- Thread starter Greensleeves420
- Start date
AK-47 great strain - did one from Serious Seed's ( or breeder of)
I know right - cannabis grows so much differently than any other plant in the universe. It has to be from some other world because it only grows with growing techniques so uncommon that we only find them in the cannabis growing paradigm.
I'm not sure.
When I was getting started growing weed a guy asked me how I grow our organic veggies and flowers in our outdoor gardens and said why don't I use all these bottled fertilizers and "growing techniques" outside?
Was a good point.
When the prohibition is lifted the folks that went and actually studied botany realize the coin involved and start growing weed. Much of the stoner science techniques of growing plants will begin to take a back seat if not disappear altogether.
The change will be driven by economics. The science of economics will change a lot of the in-efficiencies practiced currently.
Anything growers do that adds time to the finish times is costing money.
Chemical fertilizers cost A LOT of money.
Economics will parse this out.
I'm already growing plants that finish in >= 40 days of 12/12 lighting. I'm an amateur. Can't help to think what the smart people gonna do. Exciting times.
Simon Limon
Well-Known Member
As a first-time grower I'm enjoying this thread as I try to decide if I should let my clones "do their thing" or keep on training. In fact, I'll probably do both as I have several plants and enjoy experimentation.
But... as a long-time gardener I kinda choked on bobrown's comment. In my admittedly limited experience growing cannabis I find that it is not really different at all. Fertile soil, good light, adequate water: the universal recipe for most healthy plants.
As for training, pruning, thinning, and defoliation that is something I do every day in my fruit orchard and berries. SROGs and SOGs, Quads and Manifolds have been around since Roman times and are collectively known as espalier: "A restricted form of training consists of a central stem and a number of paired horizontal branches all trained in the same plane."
The real difference between cultivating cannabis and other plants is that marijuana is so much more fun. Anyone who grows cabbages knows what I mean!
Defoliation of annuals = pruning perennials. Not sure about that.
We prune our perenials same as you.
We don't defoliate annuals for yields or anything of benefit really. I thought about it.
In professional horticulture, they sometimes defoliate annuals to promote more flowers before they go to market.
How wood taking off fan leaves help this plant (perennial) get bigger fatter flowers?
"No one part more important that the whole."
The whole idea of removing leaves to somehow "promote" growth is I guess OK if you're growing Bonsai or something. Not sure how it works with cannabis?
I suppose it gets down to what you're goals are. You want to live with an annual for 200+ days, great. I have a few older than that for sure.
If goals are yields; taking off leaves and pruning are not your friends. If it was they would prune corn. lol
I like to experiment with different cultivars. In with the new, in the pipe with the old.
We prune our perenials same as you.
We don't defoliate annuals for yields or anything of benefit really. I thought about it.
In professional horticulture, they sometimes defoliate annuals to promote more flowers before they go to market.
How wood taking off fan leaves help this plant (perennial) get bigger fatter flowers?
"No one part more important that the whole."
The whole idea of removing leaves to somehow "promote" growth is I guess OK if you're growing Bonsai or something. Not sure how it works with cannabis?
I suppose it gets down to what you're goals are. You want to live with an annual for 200+ days, great. I have a few older than that for sure.
If goals are yields; taking off leaves and pruning are not your friends. If it was they would prune corn. lol
I like to experiment with different cultivars. In with the new, in the pipe with the old.
Simon Limon
Well-Known Member
Removing fan leaves does seem counter-intuitive to me -- unless they are touching the soil or so dense they prevent good air circulation.
If the ultimate goal is better bud and higher yield, however, what about removing all smaller buds? With apples, early thinning definitely produces larger fruit and presumably higher yields. We remove late season flowers from our tomato plants for the same reasons.
After reading this thread I'm going to free two of my trained clones and let them do whatever. They will be growing alongside others that I'll continue to train. It won't be a very scientific test but it's better than staring at my corn.
Remystemple
Well-Known Member
I cut all the fan leaves off of one of my plants right before flowering. i'm about 6 weeks in now and don't see a difference in cola size compared to the other 2 plants that i left alone. I'm curious to see if it makes any real impact on yield. even if it does a little bit it might be worth it if a grower is ever having problems with humidity.
I am wishing i did all the plants just for the sake of neatness.
I am wishing i did all the plants just for the sake of neatness.
Simon Limon
Well-Known Member
Remystemple, I hope you'll post follow-ups on this.
Remystemple
Well-Known Member
Will do.
falstaffo
Well-Known Member
defoliating and pre harvest flush/starve threads..
always the most interesting haha
i mean technical threads are interesting, but sometimes overwhelming and/or boring...
but the eternal feud between the yes and no camps on such topics are great for new and old growers alike haha
i dont like removing too much so just kinda remove a few fans here or there as we go that look like theyd be better off in the bin.
i like training though, manifolding and quadlining, great fun. the way they grow out it requires some removal here and there otherwise the foliage gets far too dense. but otherwise i like to try leave em alone. makes more sense to me that they need more solar panels than less..
always the most interesting haha
i mean technical threads are interesting, but sometimes overwhelming and/or boring...
but the eternal feud between the yes and no camps on such topics are great for new and old growers alike haha
i dont like removing too much so just kinda remove a few fans here or there as we go that look like theyd be better off in the bin.
i like training though, manifolding and quadlining, great fun. the way they grow out it requires some removal here and there otherwise the foliage gets far too dense. but otherwise i like to try leave em alone. makes more sense to me that they need more solar panels than less..
This is what I do and do it early BEFORE going into flower.
Lol that's funny right there.
Very likely much better than using Round-up. ffs
Well we grow much much more than just cannabis.
There are some "unique" grow technology in the cannabis world. Defies science, horticulture and most common sense.
The weird part is that in the cannabis world these strange growing "techniques" seem to be treated by the majority as some sort of gospel.
I guess we've come a longer way, heck the earth ain't flat anymore (that I know of).
Its a weed. It will grow just about any where in most any conditions.
If you wanna grow best quality, look to methods used in horticulture.
Growing grapes - that's a good one to take a look at. Couldn't help but notice all the fields of grape vines watching Tour de France - some are 100s of years old maybe even thousands of years old.
They probably use a lot of pruning techniques on grapes for wine.
Simon Limon
Well-Known Member
Last year my grape vines finally started to get serious so I followed the instructions on a YouTube grape pruning tutorial done by a very experienced grower and later, a class on pruning techniques at a local vineyard class. It boiled down to reducing the number of primary stems and removing large leaves that shade the bunches of grapes.
Now that I've designated two of my clones as strictly experimental I'll try the grape method on one and pinch the tops like crazy on the second plant, plus removing anything that looks weak.
Today I transplanted several cucumbers into 4 twenty gallon grow bags left over from the clones I gave away. I'm testing how vegetables respond to my cannabis soil mix, nutes, and watering. So far the tomatoes are doing really well.
No Pain
Well-Known Member
in my opinion at 6 weeks if growing a 9-10 week strain your budding sites are established and pretty much formed …since you did it at 6 weeks and im assuming that you are growing a strain with the flowering time I mention . I would suggest you track the lower bud sites for comparison , compare the density you should see a difference as they are about to get to the stage of swelling with the variable being your lights intensity and the depth of your canopy/height of your plants.
Remystemple
Well-Known Member
the eternal feud lol.
I feel like there are people that would say
Good thinking, i've been watching the mains. I'll be watching the lower buds a little closer for comparison now.
Thanks.
No Pain
Well-Known Member
good to hear . That's one of the reason people do this type of defoliation ..its not just about the mains but the development of the flowers over and through the whole plant/canopy .
So you're saying removing leaves is going to help with flower development?
Ok how does that happen?
No Pain
Well-Known Member
I respect your question . Short answer is light penetration / exposure to the light .
We both already know that we sit on opposite ends of the fence on defoliation with some variables on my side as I have stated that there are instances where I feel it is not needed etc ...
I have already talked about my experience and what I have seen on page 1 of this thread .
I'm trying to follow your logic is all.
Light penetration to the flowers I'm guessing is what you're saying.
I'm not trying to argue this point with you. My point is that pruning or defoliation of fan leaves is not going to help with yields.
You say otherwise, I'm just trying to see where your logic is headed. I'm still not clear on it.
Light penetration to the flowers I'm guessing is what you're saying.
I'm not trying to argue this point with you. My point is that pruning or defoliation of fan leaves is not going to help with yields.
You say otherwise, I'm just trying to see where your logic is headed. I'm still not clear on it.
No Pain
Well-Known Member
Understood and I can see a perspective where one could not fully understand . That being one that if you defoliate you will have more flowering sites thus increasing yield. I am definitely not saying that as plant flowering site potential is genetic.
but yes im talking about light exposer and more even flower growth throughout the entire plant as the plant focuses more growth energy to flowers that are exposed to the light then it does to those that are not , that is why flowers inside a bush /under the canopy are airy /fluffy/larff when compared to their counterparts that are exposed to the light . If you already have an open plant structure and your flowering sites are exposed to the light I really do feel you will benefit from defoliation ...if you are dealing with a jungle then you will more that likely see a benefit ..the limiting factors being those stated in my earlier posts .
as you seen in @Remystemple post he has two plants and decided to test it on one , and that is why I told him to compare the lowest flowers on the plants come harvest time and he was only paying attention to the tops .
Will he have success ? that is the question ..even though it was late in the flower game to defoliate I do feel he should be able to see some difference and if he doesn't see/feel a difference then odds are that with his set up in his situation with the strain he is growing it will not function .
Now in regards to my experience ,the test plant on page one that I posted ..the grow space was 19" deep by 33" wide ..roughly .4 square meters and I was using a 140watt spectrum king closet case the tallest branch in the scrogg was a little under 10". Now in the photos you can see how I devastated her by defoliation and how she bounced back . she has since been harvested and yielded 150.3 grams(manicured flower, as snoop would say no sticks no stems ,no seeds) in the curing jar(gallon jug actually) , that's 5.36 ounces . I would consider that a win and at the very least, that defoliation did not hurt my yields .
Interesting observation.
Wonder how your yields wood be if you let that plant grow naturally?
How much sooner wood the finish happen?
Wouldn't you wanna factor in TIME when asking about yields?
I trim out the laf. Thats just good practice.
I also keep the down low smallish nugs for me. I actually like them.
Taste great and get me high af.
Wonder how your yields wood be if you let that plant grow naturally?
How much sooner wood the finish happen?
Wouldn't you wanna factor in TIME when asking about yields?
I trim out the laf. Thats just good practice.
I also keep the down low smallish nugs for me. I actually like them.
Taste great and get me high af.
No Pain
Well-Known Member
very excellent questions .Interesting observation.
Wonder how your yields wood be if you let that plant grow naturally?
How much sooner wood the finish happen?
Wouldn't you wanna factor in TIME when asking about yields?
I trim out the laf. Thats just good practice.
I also keep the down low smallish nugs for me. I actually like them.
Taste great and get me high af.
1. based on my prior grow in my main room and having not done it in there until now I would have to say that I would have yielded less .
2.as far as the finish its pretty much on time ...I usually run 2-3 weeks past breeder guestimates … I am going to run a 11/13 flowering cycle next run and see if that changes .
3. When looking at yields and a particular strain , yes one needs to also factor in time versus end results . imho
4. prior to this defoliation run I trimmed out larf also ..no sense in feeding that when the energy could be used elsewhere . However in doing defoliation this run I have no larf to speak of .
I put all the nuggs in a bag after cure and what I pull I pull ...however when doing just some pick and pull testing I pull from the bottom as my theory has always been if I like the lower I will love the top .
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