Question about specific LED setups and HPS

[TTKlaus]

I have a couple of friends. One has 2 Kind LED Lights and the other has a bunch of Solar Storms (pro grower). Both are complaining that you don't get large enough yields and small buds with LED lights. The kind guy has another friend you got him to buy a HPS light to hang between the 2 LED lights. The Pro Grower moved all his plants outside because the dismal results he was getting with the high powered LEDs.
I mentioned they might be seeing photo-inhibition. What are your thoughts?

TTKlaus

 

[Grassmaster]

All these LED's are different. The 2 you mention have strong readings in the center of their foot prints. And then the PAR drops off like a rock. Blurple lights (not saying that is good or bad) .

I shoot for even lighting intensity throughout the covered area. I like COBS because they can be spaced out to cover an area evenly.

 

[Stunned]

as with QB boards that can be spread out over the grow area
Kind and Solarstorm solutions are going the way of the dodo
Blackdog can't be far behind......

 

[TTKlaus]

Interesting. I always thought those super high powered LED lights can't be good, but I always thought it was because of their intensity. So larger panels, larger footprint, even coverage is the way to go. A larger panel and spread out light source also means less heat concentration, which allows the light to be closer to the canopy, which in turn allows better penetration into the canopy.

So, it isn't a surprise that those 2 growers ditched their lights for under performing! I've been advocating lower powered lights but larger panels for several years. The light I'm using has a physical size of 16"x35" with a light spread of about the same. PPFD is 600 umol average, measured at 3". My next grow will test this light with Gold Leaf, Jack Herrer and Pineapple White Fire OG. Hope to proof to those guys that LED's will grow great buds.

 

[TTKlaus]

as with QB boards that can be spread out over the grow area
Kind and Solarstorm solutions are going the way of the dodo
Blackdog can't be far behind......

Those 3 were the market leaders and highest priced contenders for a few years! They were also going head to head with the HID lights. As in lot's of heat, cooling fans, intensity of Umol output, blurple, and wattage consumption!

 

[PurpleGunRack]

Most of the the off the shelf LED lights are more about marketing than good products...

In my mind many are just plain scams. like Kind, which is just Mars Hydro in an Iphone cover, actually my local growshop was told off by Kind because other growshops complained they sold the units too cheap, when my shop asked Kind if they wanted to buy back the units they didn't get an answer from Kind

If your friends replace HID with the LED these companies recommended they'll have a lot less light....
400w blurple can't beat 1000w HID, and a little box can't cover a big area.

Tell them to try 800x Samsung LM561C S6 bin diodes @ ~350w per m2 / 72x diodes @ ~30w per sq. ft.

 

[TTKlaus]

Most of the the off the shelf LED lights are more about marketing than good products...

In my mind many are just plain scams. like Kind, which is just Mars Hydro in an Iphone cover, actually my local growshop was told off by Kind because other growshops complained they sold the units too cheap, when my shop asked Kind if they wanted to buy back the units they didn't get an answer from Kind

If your friends replace HID with the LED these companies recommended they'll have a lot less light....
400w blurple can't beat 1000w HID, and a little box can't cover a big area.

Tell them to try 800x Samsung LM561C S6 bin diodes @ ~350w per m2 / 72x diodes @ ~30w per sq. ft.

Thanks for this response. I'm sure they will stick with HID.

 

[Old Salt]

Interesting. I always thought those super high powered LED lights can't be good, but I always thought it was because of their intensity. So larger panels, larger footprint, even coverage is the way to go. A larger panel and spread out light source also means less heat concentration, which allows the light to be closer to the canopy, which in turn allows better penetration into the canopy.

So, it isn't a surprise that those 2 growers ditched their lights for under performing! I've been advocating lower powered lights but larger panels for several years. The light I'm using has a physical size of 16"x35" with a light spread of about the same. PPFD is 600 umol average, measured at 3". My next grow will test this light with Gold Leaf, Jack Herrer and Pineapple White Fire OG. Hope to proof to those guys that LED's will grow great buds.

The problem isn't with the intensity, it's due to the small footprint of the name brand lights. I have a Chinese 300W six COB light with a similar problem. I'm going with an eight X 50W COB light in a 2 X 4 tent. The COBs will be on 30cm centers in an attempt to get a more even light coverage. The intensity will be adjustable so I can dial it in. Something to remember if you go the DIY route is that you won't save much over a commercial unit, but you will eventually end up with a better light.

 

[Grassmaster]

Too many lights too close together seems to be the main problem with panel type lights. My Migro 400 is the holy grail for my 3' by 3' by 6' tent. The lights are placed in the corners of tent (one per plant) and I have about the same par levels everywhere in the tent. They are efficient 2.1 umol's per watt. and can be dimmed down for veg.

 

[greensunshine]

The problem is the light efficiency of KIND and Solar Storms are around 1.3 - 1.5 umol and single ended HPS bulbs get around ~1.3-1.4 umol, but drop to ~1.1-1.2 after the reflector.

So basically if you go with one of those lights, and pulling 40% less light from the wall you will be giving less light to your garden.

Plus, older LED technology leaves out lots of colors. The blue and red light doesn't penetrate the canopy which leads to tiny buds and bad light penetration into the buds themselves and past the few layers of leaves. So if you're going with an older purple LED grow light...not going to have the best time. The good news is the blue light can increase THC a little bit, but thats it.