Sex question

[Ravenplume]

Honestly, my GtP (Germination to Planting) times have varies wildly and are all over the map. Some times they are planted within 2 or 3 days, some times next day, and I have even had at least one planted within hours of sprouting. Some times the sprout's tap root is only 1/4 inch long. Other times, I get lazy and by the time I get around to planting, the bugger is about 3 to 3 1/2 inches long and already has additional side root thingies growing out of it.

However, as I have thought it over further over a bowl of Wildling-00:2019, and a nice dose of whisky, I am not going to do the 12/12 out the gate experiment after all. I really don't need to start any more subjects, and need to focus on what I have. This does feel like the ideal level of development for sexing and reveg. I will try it with these as well though, (2 Birthday Cake Lites foreground, and a Bubblegum background). I think they may be mature enough to be sexed.

 

[Azimuth]

Going 12/12 right out the gate is going to put your plant into flower as soon as it’s mature but it’s going to have to reveg before it goes back to flower.

According to The Rev of TLO fame, seedlings will show sex early (30 days-ish) if placed under 12/12 for the first 10 days above ground and then reverted back to 18/6. I'm trying it now but I'm only 5 days in.

I found he saying the following on Skunk.

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Photoperiods Growing Cannabis Indoors
What I do is transition my plants slowly through their own seasons by changing my photoperiods more subtly. Now, if you look at your regular outdoor daylight hours around springtime, you will see they are actually well below 16/8 and closer to 12/12 actually. Let’s have a look at my lighting schedule next. Then I’ll break it down for ya…

1. Sprouts always get a 12/12 photoperiod for their first ten days above ground.
2. After those ten days, I use an 18/6 photoperiod.
3. About ten days before flowering, I use a 16/8 photoperiod.
4. During flowering, I use a 12/12 photoperiod unless I am flowering heirloom/landrace sativas.

 

[013]

Thanks Azi,

the Rev info drop (12/12 for first 10 days) is precisely what I was trying to articulate but I failed miserably

 

[seaofgreen18]

which shows there sex first males of female plants?

Usually after a month or 2 you can tell in veg no need to flower when sexing males usally tall and lanky and more space between nodes and look for pre Flowers a female come out 2 and usually no preflowers on male at the nodes. Female pre flowers in the pic

 

[bluter]

Going 12/12 right out the gate is going to put your plant into flower as soon as it’s mature but it’s going to have to reveg before it goes back to flower. May take up to 6 weeks. This is a horrible idea. The plant will literally make 100s of branches—larger plants get thousands of tiny branches. Pruning is required and you still end up with a big mess. Trimming is a nightmare. They call it monster cropping. I did it once on purpose. Once!

lol. i've monster cropped before and ran 12/12 from seed lots of times. running 12/12 from go used to be a quick way of turning over for an sog. the difference is we didn't reveg, just pull the males and let the girls finish.

i reveged and monster cropped plants after a harvest. they get super weird.

i've also reveged after sexing plants before, but usually let them get established before the first 12/12. if they are big enough they show without a huge reversal so you can sex them.

it's been a long time since i ran regs. i have a mountain of reg seeds but am just too lazy now lol.

According to The Rev of TLO fame, seedlings will show sex early (30 days-ish) if placed under 12/12 for the first 10 days above ground and then reverted back to 18/6. I'm trying it now but I'm only 5 days in.

they have to get to node 4-5 before they start to show. how ever long that takes.

 

[Ravenplume]

Alright. These three are no longer undergoing sensory deprivation into total darkness on

2023-02-21 / 22:00 hours : Went into darkness
2023-02-23 / 20:00 hours : Brought back out of darkness

Total time in darkness: 46 hours (yeah, a bit overkill, but got distracted, plus something like that is out of sight, out of mind, and you know how that can go.)

They are no worse for the wear, other than some fading topside; but 2 days in the dark will do that, of course.

It is probably way too early to see any real results yet of course, but just in case, here are close up shots of all three, as best as I was able to get them to come out...

Feyleaf:04 - Top

Feyleaf:04 - a tad further down

Wildling:48 - Top

Wildling:48 - further down

And one shot of Wildling:49, which catches both the top and at least the next area of interest further down.

The Wildling Trio and Feyleaf journals elsewhere on the site will get updated a tad later, mostly splitting up a lot of the content of this update into the relevant journals.

Now that they are out of darkness, will just normal lighting cycles be sufficient to keep them from revegging already before they can show, or did they just need that dark period to trigger, then have to have a similar light period to start the reveg?

Again, sorry about repeating the same questions in different ways over and over; it is one of my best ways of learning really, and each time; more and more useful info and knowledge is imparted.

 

[013]

imho 2 days of darkness doesn’t matter in big scheme of things…

generally speaking they won’t go into flower until you force them via a change in light hours… exceptions would be weird autoflower genetics

theres no fear of reveg after only 2 days of dark because they were never in flower cycle to begin with

what really counts is giving them significantly more than 12 hours of lights on time (as in 18/6) each day to stay in veg cycle….

versus flipping to 12/12 to initially trigger them and then to keep them in flower.

basically you just want to identify the girls… next to last pic kinda looks like tiny pistil hair may be popping from node calyx beside stem on the upper pair of nodes (right hand side) …. of course indicating female gender… yup I’d say next to last pic is female - not sure about others

but don’t trust me - old eyes, script glasses and iPad

 

[Phytoplankton]

Wildling sure looks like a female, on the "further down" picture, 1st node, see the "hair". What's up with the spotting on the leaves? Just another quick observation, they're a little stretchy, so more/closer, light will help. You should be looking at up potting some of them soon.

 

[Ravenplume]

First off, I have to say that I am really appreciating all the help here, and everyone's patience tremendously.

Now, I do have a couple pots that Wildlings 48 and 49 will be transplanted into soon; though nothing picked out yet for the Feyleaf. That depends on what it ends up being. If female, it gets a 5 gallon bucket and gets plenty of loving attention so it will be one of my star performers after going into the cage come June. If male, then it will get a suitable flower pot to assume its role as house plant and playmate for an upcoming sister Feyleaf (further breeding them together from G:00 to G:01 (not sure how many generations deep it is safe to go before weird shit starts manifesting, but a G:01 should be safe, which can then be feminized at that point.)

Wildling #48 will get this nice tall metal trash can turned planter that one of my Wildling boys used last year and will go on the end table in my room under the south facing window, while #49 will get this one...

And it will remain under the window that the planter is currently under (previously had a post season sunflower that finally got too neglected and died. It may have also had a couple Morning Glory companions last Fall as well, but can't recall exactly.

I am also going to have companion plants with both of these. Obviously going to do at least one, perhaps 2 morning glories (a Scarlet O'Hara, and a violet guttersnipe...my term for wild growing plants, from the ones that appeared among the sunflowers last year.

Should get at least one other item companioned with them as well, since it feels like a waste of grow space to not have more items growing in these planters. Just not sure what would go best...possibly a dwarf sunflower (or even a non dwarf), but what else? For flowers, I am working with morning glories and marigolds, plus getting back to the zinnias and various daisies as well). But I also have a lot of other various things I'm growing that could also be good companions...

Various peas, bell peppers, chili peppers of all sorts, potatoes, maters (maters are out though since the natural insect repellent they put off as they mature is cause for much allergic suffering for my housemate here), peas, green beans, radishes, eggplants, cucumbers, mustards, turnips, all sorts of squashes (like acorn of various varieties, butternut, spaghetti, pumpkins, etc), assorted onionkin as I like to call them (leeks, scallions, chives, and garlic), and cilantro thus far. Guess I should try some of the poppy seeds a regular through the neighborhood handed me last year on his daily walk.

And as for the third Wildling, which is nowhere near ready for sexing, it will likely go in a cut down V8 jug, like my oldest Bitter Sweet Pie (which definitely needs a planter upgrade and better location soon. She has been in a holding pattern since some time last Summer).

And I think that spotting on the leaves was just due to insufficient lighting and possibly inadequate watering not long before they went to dark. Pretty certain that if that was it, the lack of light for the past couple days simply exacerbated it. Will see if they recover now that they are in the light again, and if after a week or two, no cleaning up, those leaves will get trimmed.

 

[Ravenplume]

Also meant to mention, but forgot...

Wildling:48 will be the one that gets to essentially be the Wildling primary for the main grow this year, but she will also get the magic silver potion to change some of her flowers to male and self pollinate to make feminized seeds. That has me wondering if self pollination like that meets the inbreeding (what I prefer to call noble breeding) requirement to declare a new strain name, or does the breeding have to be between two actual sibling plants? (Name and Claim is going to have to be a subject for another discussion, possibly soon(tm). I'm undecided as to whether or not I am going to try cloning her. I may save that as a role for Wildling:49 instead.

 

[Phytoplankton]

I’d definitely plant marigolds as companions, they repel many bad insects an attract predators of aphids. Another good one is chrysanthemums, they contain pyrethrum, which is an insecticide.

 

[Ravenplume]

I will definitely be planting marigolds to go with them. Got 4 from American Seed (still 25 cents a pack at Dollar Tree) germinating, as well as 4 each Scarlet O'Hara and violet morning glories.

Here is a fresh further down shot from Feyleaf:04. I think there has been a tiny bit of development since, and still not quite sure if those are girl preflowers, boys, or just more leaves about to come in.

I'm hoping I will eventually get to where I can figure this out without asking each time...

 

[zigzagman1960]

I will definitely be planting marigolds to go with them. Got 4 from American Seed (still 25 cents a pack at Dollar Tree) germinating, as well as 4 each Scarlet O'Hara and violet morning glories.

Here is a fresh further down shot from Feyleaf:04. I think there has been a tiny bit of development since, and still not quite sure if those are girl preflowers, boys, or just more leaves about to come in.

I'm hoping I will eventually get to where I can figure this out without asking each time...

I say female parts even with those blurry shots.

 

[Ravenplume]

Awesome. Got her planter picked out for tomorrow already, and the perfect spot for her to grow until ready for planting, same with the two Wildlings. Then perhaps tomorrow start the process with another three subjects, a second Feyleaf and one of each Bubblegum Lite, if any are ready yet. At the very least, they will also get an up potting of sorts, and will be taking over the Not Pringles canisters these three are upgrading out of. I've noticed my babies seem to develop quicker in these canisters vs 8.5 oz styro cups... No idea why.

Thinking I should also NP canister all the surviving Bubblegum seedlings soon too. Not going to bother actually sexing most of them, since with only 11 seeds found thus far, I am fairly certain the mother plant had one of those panic self pollinations that makes feminized seeds. But we will see. If the flowering and revegging is as painless as it sounds, I may do a couple any way, just to see for certain.

And one other Q for now... Should I let them continue to flower, or is the consensus certain enough that they be sent back to veg right away? Spot picked out for Fey is here in the living room, on top of the heater, under a couple CFL lamps that are on most of the day...and in front of a nice white blind that bounces more light their way. Of course, when the snow is gone and Spring is in full bloom, the potted plants will be spending a decent part of the day outdoors. Figure that helps them acclimate to eventually becoming outdoor plants.

 

[Azimuth]

I say female parts even with those blurry shots.

Really? I would have gone the other way. Top node looks male to me with a lot of internodal stretch, though hard to tell without scale.

More clear pics would help.

 

[Ravenplume]

I'll try to get some better shots. They looked perfectly clear on the phone, but they always get all blurry when transferred.

 

[Phytoplankton]

Still too early to be tell on Feyleaf4, but if I had to lean one way or the other, I'd say male, but it's not definitive, and I've been fooled before.

 

[zigzagman1960]

I'll try to get some better shots. They looked perfectly clear on the phone, but they always get all blurry when transferred.

This is similar to what I see. Spade shape—NO stalk=female. Can confirm with clear picture.

 

[Ravenplume]

Well, if it ends up being a boy, that is fine too (as I need one for further breeding), just going to take a little longer to get the next candidates ready, since there is only one Feyleaf currently that is ready to upgrade to a Not Pringles Canister, Will do an update on that later. All the others still just have their infant leaves, initial tiny crown, or otherwise have not even popped their seed shells off.

Here's what I hope will be deemed clearer shots of 04...crown, and first three nodes.

I think the last two shots may be the most revealing, perhaps.

Regardless, I am going to start another three for good measure, out of the half dozen very healthy looking seeds I collected yesterday from the Wildling bud jar as I was preparing for a porch sit. Sure, I could have pulled from the seed baggie, but for some reason, these just looked exceptionally healthy.

So if this is a boy, looks like I will need to come up with a project name for him, since Feyleaf is reserved for the first girl. I know, I shouldn't anthropomorphize my plants; they hate that, but that is just me...

 

[zigzagman1960]

Well, if it ends up being a boy, that is fine too (as I need one for further breeding), just going to take a little longer to get the next candidates ready, since there is only one Feyleaf currently that is ready to upgrade to a Not Pringles Canister, Will do an update on that later. All the others still just have their infant leaves, initial tiny crown, or otherwise have not even popped their seed shells off.

Here's what I hope will be deemed clearer shots of 04...crown, and first three nodes.

I think the last two shots may be the most revealing, perhaps.

Regardless, I am going to start another three for good measure, out of the half dozen very healthy looking seeds I collected yesterday from the Wildling bud jar as I was preparing for a porch sit. Sure, I could have pulled from the seed baggie, but for some reason, these just looked exceptionally healthy.

So if this is a boy, looks like I will need to come up with a project name for him, since Feyleaf is reserved for the first girl. I know, I shouldn't anthropomorphize my plants; they hate that, but that is just me...

Can’t see anything in those shots. Study the sample I showed and get some light in those crotches and zero in on preflowers. Those shots show maybe your not sure what indicates sex?