Some kinda problem! Please take a look! Really need 2nd opinion!
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I contacted advanced nutrients and they said if I feed according to schedule it will have the proper levels of Ca, Mg, and Fe. I was think the same as you though. First grow with advanced and I'm using 3 part, big bud, b52, bud candy, I did use piranha and voodoo juice first two weeks. This is week 3-4 and this started. I have overdrive and flawless finish for later stages but I might just get calmag now!
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
One may expect certain defs at key stages of growth but at what stage of growth you are at is unknown ?
At a wild guess you are flowering ?
But looks like a touch of phosphorus & potassium with most of it with a slight suspicion of spider mite, how ever some leaf looks real dark green which might lead to nitrogen toxicity it could just be bad lighting when pic was taken tho ?
Now we or I or the rest the community who choose to help may require a little bit more info to assist in such matters...
1. Stage of growth veg or how many weeks into flowering there are some really common defs which may occur in these periods might be a feeding thing.
2. As you are using dwc it could be PH swing over a matter of days to how or when you adjust or monitor PH of nutrient solution being a problem to which may cause lock outs or defs occuring.
At a wild guess you are flowering ?
But looks like a touch of phosphorus & potassium with most of it with a slight suspicion of spider mite, how ever some leaf looks real dark green which might lead to nitrogen toxicity it could just be bad lighting when pic was taken tho ?
Now we or I or the rest the community who choose to help may require a little bit more info to assist in such matters...
1. Stage of growth veg or how many weeks into flowering there are some really common defs which may occur in these periods might be a feeding thing.
2. As you are using dwc it could be PH swing over a matter of days to how or when you adjust or monitor PH of nutrient solution being a problem to which may cause lock outs or defs occuring.
rillos
Well-Known Member
cal/mag for sure.
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- #7
Sorry more details
Yes this is flower, posted above its week 3 going in to 4. 2 days till nutrients get dumped and new fill.
Grow is AN ph perfect but I'm skeptical so I check with blue lab ph pen everyday. It runs 5.9 to 6.3 perfectly.
It is a RDWC, Hydro with clay pellets and rapid root plug to start. Running 1200gph air pump with 1 xl stone per bucket. 3 buckets two for plants and 1 is res. Water temps run 68 to 72 and hydrogaurd used for backup. 1000w hps running 75%, so 750w about 20 in above canopy. Super scrog so canopy is even. Three fans moving like a wind tunnel so temps run about 72-80. With full strength AN it only gets to 1600 - 1800ppm and I've seen a little higher in others grows. Alot of $invested and first major issue! No bugs, ocd= neat freak and super clean.
Yes this is flower, posted above its week 3 going in to 4. 2 days till nutrients get dumped and new fill.
Grow is AN ph perfect but I'm skeptical so I check with blue lab ph pen everyday. It runs 5.9 to 6.3 perfectly.
It is a RDWC, Hydro with clay pellets and rapid root plug to start. Running 1200gph air pump with 1 xl stone per bucket. 3 buckets two for plants and 1 is res. Water temps run 68 to 72 and hydrogaurd used for backup. 1000w hps running 75%, so 750w about 20 in above canopy. Super scrog so canopy is even. Three fans moving like a wind tunnel so temps run about 72-80. With full strength AN it only gets to 1600 - 1800ppm and I've seen a little higher in others grows. Alot of $invested and first major issue! No bugs, ocd= neat freak and super clean.
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
High Stoner314
First off don't go by AN's feeding schedule. I've emailed about it to them a few times but never hear back. They say to use it full strength from seedling and that's just to get us to use and waste a lot more nutes than we need too. I've done DWC for over 10 years and have never fed by their schedule. You want to be testing the ppm to set your levels. 1800ppm is way too high for most plants if not all. Even with heavy feeding kush plants I've never gone over 1500. I rarely do a nute change and have done whole grows without changing nutes at all. I only use RO or distilled water too so there is never a question of water quality messing things up.
I first got the pH perfect nutes about a year ago and did a recent DWC and plants in ProMix without once checking pH with never a sign of deficiencies or any other problems. I'm using Sensi Grow for veg and Connoisseur for flowering but will be getting the 3-part soon as I'm sure the nutes I'm using are are too high in N for the last half of flowering and causing those burned crispy leaves and retarding flower development. With the 3-part you can drop the grow part after the stretch and go by the Lucas Formula to restrict N. The plants feed heavily during stretch and need lots of N then so I just leave the grow nutes in and boost the P and K with extra Bloom nutes and some Big Bud. That's great stuff with the proper levels of P and K at 1-17-38. Most bloom boosters are more like 1-38-17 and that's great for tomatoes but we aren't growing tomatoes.
As your plants are past the stretch and you have the 3-part nutes it's the perfect time to flush and reload without the Grow part. Just equal parts Micro and Bloom with Big Bud aiming for a ppm around 1000. I stop the big bud around week 5 or 6 and switch to OverDrive along with the base nutes. Weekly nute changes aren't needed especially when the plants are small in veg. I generally never change out nutes until after the stretch. Get a lot more mileage out of a bottle of nutes and never have problems with the plants. They want you to toss perfectly good nutes so you have to buy more and they get richer.
I start my clones in the tub at around 300ppm. As the roots get established and the plants are showing good growth I bump it up after testing the ppm. Always top up with water then test ppm. I use syringes to get accurate measurements of the nutes and just squirt each, one at a time, into the tub. The bubbling water mixes them up just fine. After the first week or so I'll get it up to 500ppm or so then go higher as the plants get bigger and are feeding a lot more. Once you flip to flower the daily ppm drop can be up to 5X more than just before the flip so the ppm needs to be maintained at the level you want. This is when I'd be up as high as 1500. By checking the ppm every day I know when the stretch is slowing down as the daily ppm drop gets smaller. That's when I may flush and go to full flowering nutes only. Still with some N but there is lots of N in the Micro portion for the rest of the flowering period. Feeding slows greatly as the plants are just putting on flowers and fattening them up which takes a lot less food but needs the higher P and K for this part. Go easy on the CalMag as the nutes have lots in them for good growth. I never even used to use it with the older 3-part nutes and never saw deficiencies. I did use a bit of epsom salts tho for the Mg. Use CalMag at half the recommended rates if at all. Don't have to get the AN stuff. Any CalMag for hydro will do just as well.
You don't happen to have ozone going in the grow room do you? Some of that leaf damage looks like ozone damage. The big necrotic patches look more like water damage or some sort of fungus than any nute deficiency. At the rates you are feeding I can guarantee that you don't have any deficiencies but may be having toxicity problems from too much. Hopefully you don't spray the plants with anything, even water.
Adding pictures of the whole plant is very helpful to figure out what's going on too. A few buggered leaves here and there do not a problem make. More problems are caused by chasing down non-existant deficiencies than making sure the actual problem, if any, is diagnosed correctly.
Good luck and good growing!
L8r
First off don't go by AN's feeding schedule. I've emailed about it to them a few times but never hear back. They say to use it full strength from seedling and that's just to get us to use and waste a lot more nutes than we need too. I've done DWC for over 10 years and have never fed by their schedule. You want to be testing the ppm to set your levels. 1800ppm is way too high for most plants if not all. Even with heavy feeding kush plants I've never gone over 1500. I rarely do a nute change and have done whole grows without changing nutes at all. I only use RO or distilled water too so there is never a question of water quality messing things up.
I first got the pH perfect nutes about a year ago and did a recent DWC and plants in ProMix without once checking pH with never a sign of deficiencies or any other problems. I'm using Sensi Grow for veg and Connoisseur for flowering but will be getting the 3-part soon as I'm sure the nutes I'm using are are too high in N for the last half of flowering and causing those burned crispy leaves and retarding flower development. With the 3-part you can drop the grow part after the stretch and go by the Lucas Formula to restrict N. The plants feed heavily during stretch and need lots of N then so I just leave the grow nutes in and boost the P and K with extra Bloom nutes and some Big Bud. That's great stuff with the proper levels of P and K at 1-17-38. Most bloom boosters are more like 1-38-17 and that's great for tomatoes but we aren't growing tomatoes.
As your plants are past the stretch and you have the 3-part nutes it's the perfect time to flush and reload without the Grow part. Just equal parts Micro and Bloom with Big Bud aiming for a ppm around 1000. I stop the big bud around week 5 or 6 and switch to OverDrive along with the base nutes. Weekly nute changes aren't needed especially when the plants are small in veg. I generally never change out nutes until after the stretch. Get a lot more mileage out of a bottle of nutes and never have problems with the plants. They want you to toss perfectly good nutes so you have to buy more and they get richer.
I start my clones in the tub at around 300ppm. As the roots get established and the plants are showing good growth I bump it up after testing the ppm. Always top up with water then test ppm. I use syringes to get accurate measurements of the nutes and just squirt each, one at a time, into the tub. The bubbling water mixes them up just fine. After the first week or so I'll get it up to 500ppm or so then go higher as the plants get bigger and are feeding a lot more. Once you flip to flower the daily ppm drop can be up to 5X more than just before the flip so the ppm needs to be maintained at the level you want. This is when I'd be up as high as 1500. By checking the ppm every day I know when the stretch is slowing down as the daily ppm drop gets smaller. That's when I may flush and go to full flowering nutes only. Still with some N but there is lots of N in the Micro portion for the rest of the flowering period. Feeding slows greatly as the plants are just putting on flowers and fattening them up which takes a lot less food but needs the higher P and K for this part. Go easy on the CalMag as the nutes have lots in them for good growth. I never even used to use it with the older 3-part nutes and never saw deficiencies. I did use a bit of epsom salts tho for the Mg. Use CalMag at half the recommended rates if at all. Don't have to get the AN stuff. Any CalMag for hydro will do just as well.
You don't happen to have ozone going in the grow room do you? Some of that leaf damage looks like ozone damage. The big necrotic patches look more like water damage or some sort of fungus than any nute deficiency. At the rates you are feeding I can guarantee that you don't have any deficiencies but may be having toxicity problems from too much. Hopefully you don't spray the plants with anything, even water.
Adding pictures of the whole plant is very helpful to figure out what's going on too. A few buggered leaves here and there do not a problem make. More problems are caused by chasing down non-existant deficiencies than making sure the actual problem, if any, is diagnosed correctly.
Good luck and good growing!
L8r
- Thread starter
- #9
Oldmed
I was hoping you were gonna chime in!
OK ozone do u mean any co2, no I am just using passive air from basement.
I sprayed when they were in veg but that was almost 4 weeks ago!
I'm dropping the nutrient strength down to 2/3rd strength because there is 7 babies in there so I don't really want to cut it in half. I ordered the calmag it will be here in two days perfect timing for nutrient switch.
I got a quick response from the support team at advanced nutrients, but they actually said add more during top off instead of plain ro water. Lol $$$
The small brown spots and yellowing between veins on leaves are about 75% of the plants. Not just one but all 7, there all clones from same type so there all responding the same.
I was hoping you were gonna chime in!
OK ozone do u mean any co2, no I am just using passive air from basement.
I sprayed when they were in veg but that was almost 4 weeks ago!
I'm dropping the nutrient strength down to 2/3rd strength because there is 7 babies in there so I don't really want to cut it in half. I ordered the calmag it will be here in two days perfect timing for nutrient switch.
I got a quick response from the support team at advanced nutrients, but they actually said add more during top off instead of plain ro water. Lol $$$
The small brown spots and yellowing between veins on leaves are about 75% of the plants. Not just one but all 7, there all clones from same type so there all responding the same.
OldMedUser
Formerly Known as LabRat
O3 and CO2 are 2 totally different things. Ozone is an oxidizer and having it around the plants can cause spotting on the leaves that looks like mite damage but the spots start yellow and go brown where mite damage looks like tiny white spots randomly all over the leaf surface. Ozone burns the stomata on the underside of the leaf and if extensive will basically suffocate the plant as all it's breathing orifices are killed off. Does the same thing to your lungs if you breath too much of it or are exposed to lower doses daily.
It's great that AN is about the only company that won't hang up on you if you ask about using their products to grow pot but the people you talk too are always going to want to upsell you. That's their job. I've never bothered trying to call them and they've never responded to any emails I've sent them. Part of upselling is to get you to use more nutes.
If you think about it there is no reason to toss out nutes every week and put in a fresh batch when the plants are little. They hardly eat anything so it's like mixing up a batch then pouring it down the drain. Running as high as you have been sets you up for disaster if for some reason you don't keep the rez topped up. As the volume goes down the ppm goes up. So if you start at 1500 with a fresh rez and the level drops to half then your ppm will almost double. If it got down to 1/4 then the ppm would be close to 4x what it was when it was full. Dead plants for sure.
Like I said, aim for 1000 now and let it drop after 6 weeks or so especially if you start getting hard, crispy, browning leaves starting with the older fan leaves. That's nutrient buildup in the leaves and happens easier at high ppm with higher temps and lower RH. The lower your humidity the faster plants will drink water and with higher ppm they will also get more nutes than they need and store it away in all the plant material including your buds giving them that "chem" taste even after a good flush.
Seedlings or new clones in DWC - 200 - 400ppm. Gradually raise the ppm by adding more nutes every few days as they get bigger and more vigorous up to around 1000ppm. Maybe a bit higher for heavy feeders like kush but as long as you maintain the ppm you want with small additions of nutes in the proper proportion to each other there reall is no need to go higher. If you like doing weekly changes then just top up with water when it drops and do a fresh batch every week. Must also like more work and have spare cash to buy nutes more often too.
When a week from flip I add in a heavier dose of Bloom nutes and a half dose of Big Bud to get it up to 1400 or so then keep it at that ppm until the stretch is slowing down. If I change nutes I'll do it then with 1000ppm for my target.
I'd like to get some Bud Ignitor for the next grow but I hear it's really pricy. Gotta make sure I get my Big Bud first tho. Been using that for years and years. All I use for supplements is Rhino Skin from the very start of vegging, Big Bud, dash of CalMag and OverDrive. All out of everything at the moment but base nutes and doubt I'll get OD again unless I have lots of spare cash. Didn't notice any real difference using it.
L8r
It's great that AN is about the only company that won't hang up on you if you ask about using their products to grow pot but the people you talk too are always going to want to upsell you. That's their job. I've never bothered trying to call them and they've never responded to any emails I've sent them. Part of upselling is to get you to use more nutes.
If you think about it there is no reason to toss out nutes every week and put in a fresh batch when the plants are little. They hardly eat anything so it's like mixing up a batch then pouring it down the drain. Running as high as you have been sets you up for disaster if for some reason you don't keep the rez topped up. As the volume goes down the ppm goes up. So if you start at 1500 with a fresh rez and the level drops to half then your ppm will almost double. If it got down to 1/4 then the ppm would be close to 4x what it was when it was full. Dead plants for sure.
Like I said, aim for 1000 now and let it drop after 6 weeks or so especially if you start getting hard, crispy, browning leaves starting with the older fan leaves. That's nutrient buildup in the leaves and happens easier at high ppm with higher temps and lower RH. The lower your humidity the faster plants will drink water and with higher ppm they will also get more nutes than they need and store it away in all the plant material including your buds giving them that "chem" taste even after a good flush.
Seedlings or new clones in DWC - 200 - 400ppm. Gradually raise the ppm by adding more nutes every few days as they get bigger and more vigorous up to around 1000ppm. Maybe a bit higher for heavy feeders like kush but as long as you maintain the ppm you want with small additions of nutes in the proper proportion to each other there reall is no need to go higher. If you like doing weekly changes then just top up with water when it drops and do a fresh batch every week. Must also like more work and have spare cash to buy nutes more often too.
When a week from flip I add in a heavier dose of Bloom nutes and a half dose of Big Bud to get it up to 1400 or so then keep it at that ppm until the stretch is slowing down. If I change nutes I'll do it then with 1000ppm for my target.
I'd like to get some Bud Ignitor for the next grow but I hear it's really pricy. Gotta make sure I get my Big Bud first tho. Been using that for years and years. All I use for supplements is Rhino Skin from the very start of vegging, Big Bud, dash of CalMag and OverDrive. All out of everything at the moment but base nutes and doubt I'll get OD again unless I have lots of spare cash. Didn't notice any real difference using it.
L8r
- Thread starter
- #11
Nice thank you, I went a head and pulled out 2 gallons of nutes and added fresh ro water to bring it down. Calmag will be here Sunday and I'll add a small amount for the spots. I don't think my solution wasn't that high because I started cleaning my ppm pen and damn it was dirty so I have a feeling I was getting higher readings! I'm letting it soak over night and will get a good read tomorrow. I spent a good amount for the nutes so I'm hoping they make a big difference over GH.
