TanR
New Member
Morning Soviet,
Curious for an update on the girl you were worried about?
Happy Friday!
Curious for an update on the girl you were worried about?
Happy Friday!
Soviets 1st Grow - Soil - 600WHPS - White Widow/StrawBerry Cough -2013
- Thread starter TheSoviet
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- #23
TheSoviet
New Member
Update time.
I haven't seen any bugs in awhile, minus the common house spider or centipede. However My one girl is still dying, or dead. Like i said before I have no idea how this happened or what is causing it.
I'm now noticing my girls have these strange marks on the leaves. I don't think it's bite marks, because I've looked up spider mite damage and have seen general bite mark damage on the clover and other sorts of flora in my backyard, this doesn't seem the same.
Here are the pictures, I think I'm going to transplant the first plant tomorrow or the following day. Sort of nervous, haven't done it before.
Pictures below, notice the damage/marks on the leaves I mentioned above, can anyone confirm what exactly is causing this ? Appreciate any info.
You'll notice a black dot on one of the plants. It's no bug, I tried extremely hard to remove it without damage, it's not coming off.
Plant 1
Plant 2
Plant 3
Plant 4
Plant 5
I haven't seen any bugs in awhile, minus the common house spider or centipede. However My one girl is still dying, or dead. Like i said before I have no idea how this happened or what is causing it.
I'm now noticing my girls have these strange marks on the leaves. I don't think it's bite marks, because I've looked up spider mite damage and have seen general bite mark damage on the clover and other sorts of flora in my backyard, this doesn't seem the same.
Here are the pictures, I think I'm going to transplant the first plant tomorrow or the following day. Sort of nervous, haven't done it before.
Pictures below, notice the damage/marks on the leaves I mentioned above, can anyone confirm what exactly is causing this ? Appreciate any info.
You'll notice a black dot on one of the plants. It's no bug, I tried extremely hard to remove it without damage, it's not coming off.
Plant 1
Plant 2
Plant 3
Plant 4
Plant 5
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- #24
TheSoviet
New Member
So I think I'm going to yank the runt plant soon. I don't know what went wrong, but it's been well over a week and nothing is changing. I'll give it one more week. I'll probably plant a couple more very soon because of the loss. Won't be the same strains.
Should these plants have been transplanted already ?
Should these plants have been transplanted already ?
i believe you should transplant your plants now. your plants should have established roots! i would avoid using the gaia green soil mixture with the nutrients already mixed in, may create problems with the sensi grow nutrients you have. i would use a peat moss, perlite and vermiculite mixture instead. to transplant mix up some pH adjusted water and wet some of your soil/soiless mixture so it is moist and can be placed in a larger pot. begin by placing the soil/soiless mixture into the pot with a depression large enough for your current pot to fit into so the plant is buried with the stem lower then previously. take the cup in your hand while supporting the stem between the fingers of your other hand and invert the cup. gently tap the bottom of the cup to get the root ball and soil to come out. place the root ball and plant into the larger pot while supporting it. gently pack your soil/soiless mixture around the sides and top so the plant is supported by it and the plant is now lower then the level it was buried to. gently water the plant in its new larger pot.
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- #26
TheSoviet
New Member
Sounds just like Promix. The only difference I think is the dolomite lime, and some other macro nutes good for a couple weeks. I think I may give the soil less route a try. I was so set on finding a good soil, however in Canada, in my local stores it's all just garbage. So I have a question about Promix mixture. I'm assuming I should adjust my water PH level towards that of hydroponics, like 5.8 for example, and not 6.5-7. Is this correct ?
I'm glad you pointed out the Gaia product. When I bought it I thought it was simple potting soil, I overlooked that it's actually soil conditioner. I feel like a moron
If i had transplanted into that... I would imagine massive burning.Second, I'm still interested in the Whitish marks on the leaves. My first thought was Thrips, I don't see any bugs during the lights on period, and from what I understand the damage is done during the dark.
Got some new pics. Want to know if this is a bad sign. It's on the lower leaves so I assumed it was normal, old leaves dying new ones coming in. Just showed up yesterday. Blackish area on the leaves. It's only on this plant(which is Plant 1, in the previous pictures).
Transplanting as soon as I can confirm that I need to use lower PH water for Promix.
TanR
New Member
Hi Soviet,
Glad to catch your update. Sorry to hear about losing the one little one. No telling what went wrong, but it's all about the learning curve at this point anyway.
I do have some familiarity with Promix and if it's available in your area would highly recommend Promix HP. Almost any of the Promix formulations will work though and you'll find all have already been PH adjusted with Dolomitic and Calcitic limestone to a 5.5 to 6.5 range. While Promix is technically soilless, I don't think you approach it quite the same as hydroponics. Personally, I would not adjust the PH of my water down although I don't know the PH of your water.
Sadly, I do not have reasonably easy access to Promix so following some information I learned from a few other journals that specifically use a composted peat moss based soil, I did the best I could with locally available (think box home improvement stores and local nurseries) to build my own soil mix. I got the ph to a little below 7'ish and have watered with distilled water (from grocery store - ph 7) and my girls are loving it. I'm heavy on the peat moss though and peat tends to be acidic to begin with and gets more so over time as it breaks down, so I did add pretty decent dose of lime in the mix initially and about every other watering will even add a little lime to the water and let it sit for several days before using. I manage to keep both mix and runoff from watering pretty consistantly 7 or a little below.
You might find it interesting to check out a few of the journals from either DocBud, Curso, or Steppenwolf (off the top of my head) as they all grow in Promix. While their goal is to grow with an goal of a high brix reading (and they add quite a few soil amendments to acheive this) I think the basic take away for you could be that promix and a little addition lime (in the form of Calcium Carbonate- CaCo3) would work just fine. They have their stuff so dialed in they don't even bother testing the PH of anything anymore. I'm working toward that also!
One tip they utilize that I have copied is they "cook" their promix base for a period time before use. Since promix is just a little acidic and lime typically takes a month or two to break down and really begin to effect the ph of the soil, they put their soil in a barrel or tub for 30 to 60 days prior to use. Mix in their lime (and the other ammendments), water a little and occasionally mix it up. I did the same and it has resulted in a very stable base!
You might consider mixing in a little of your soil conditioner and/or some regular potting soil and be just fine right off the bat.
Sorry I can't help with the minor discoloration and leaf damage. Just don't feel confident to recommend a cause or course, but your girls look healthy so I think you have plenty of time to monitor it before "having" to do anything.
Be well and let us hear from you more frequently if convenient.
Glad to catch your update. Sorry to hear about losing the one little one. No telling what went wrong, but it's all about the learning curve at this point anyway.
I do have some familiarity with Promix and if it's available in your area would highly recommend Promix HP. Almost any of the Promix formulations will work though and you'll find all have already been PH adjusted with Dolomitic and Calcitic limestone to a 5.5 to 6.5 range. While Promix is technically soilless, I don't think you approach it quite the same as hydroponics. Personally, I would not adjust the PH of my water down although I don't know the PH of your water.
Sadly, I do not have reasonably easy access to Promix so following some information I learned from a few other journals that specifically use a composted peat moss based soil, I did the best I could with locally available (think box home improvement stores and local nurseries) to build my own soil mix. I got the ph to a little below 7'ish and have watered with distilled water (from grocery store - ph 7) and my girls are loving it. I'm heavy on the peat moss though and peat tends to be acidic to begin with and gets more so over time as it breaks down, so I did add pretty decent dose of lime in the mix initially and about every other watering will even add a little lime to the water and let it sit for several days before using. I manage to keep both mix and runoff from watering pretty consistantly 7 or a little below.
You might find it interesting to check out a few of the journals from either DocBud, Curso, or Steppenwolf (off the top of my head) as they all grow in Promix. While their goal is to grow with an goal of a high brix reading (and they add quite a few soil amendments to acheive this) I think the basic take away for you could be that promix and a little addition lime (in the form of Calcium Carbonate- CaCo3) would work just fine. They have their stuff so dialed in they don't even bother testing the PH of anything anymore. I'm working toward that also!
One tip they utilize that I have copied is they "cook" their promix base for a period time before use. Since promix is just a little acidic and lime typically takes a month or two to break down and really begin to effect the ph of the soil, they put their soil in a barrel or tub for 30 to 60 days prior to use. Mix in their lime (and the other ammendments), water a little and occasionally mix it up. I did the same and it has resulted in a very stable base!
You might consider mixing in a little of your soil conditioner and/or some regular potting soil and be just fine right off the bat.
Sorry I can't help with the minor discoloration and leaf damage. Just don't feel confident to recommend a cause or course, but your girls look healthy so I think you have plenty of time to monitor it before "having" to do anything.
Be well and let us hear from you more frequently if convenient.
pH 5.8 for soiless mixtures, pH 6.5 for soil. if you have thrips they will be all over your plant and you will see considerable leaf damage from them. they feed day and night and can strip a plant. look on the underside of your leaves in question. thrips are small insects 1-2 millimetres in size, they crawl and jump. flick a leaf and they will fall off and begin to jump and crawl back. the way i defeated thrips was to use 3 products. diotomacious earth, Monterey All Natural 3 in 1 Garden Insect spray, Monterey Garden Insect Spray with Spinosad.
use the diotomacious earth to top dress the soil as a barrier that will kill them when they crawl through it. use the diotomacious earth with a squeeze bottle to puff clouds all over the leaves and stems of the plant, this is quite messy but helps incredibly. alternate between Monterey Garden Insect Spray with Spinosad and Monterey All Natural 3 in 1 Garden Insect spray every 3 days.
the diotomacious earth i bought was from a feed store, do not get the type meant for pool filters.
thrips
thrips-in-stages
Thrips - Wikipedia
Diatomaceous earth - Wikipedia
https://www.google.com diotomacious earth
https://www.google.com shopping Monterey Garden Insect Spray with Spinosad
https://www.google.com monterey 3 in 1 all natural
use the diotomacious earth to top dress the soil as a barrier that will kill them when they crawl through it. use the diotomacious earth with a squeeze bottle to puff clouds all over the leaves and stems of the plant, this is quite messy but helps incredibly. alternate between Monterey Garden Insect Spray with Spinosad and Monterey All Natural 3 in 1 Garden Insect spray every 3 days.
the diotomacious earth i bought was from a feed store, do not get the type meant for pool filters.
thrips
thrips-in-stages
Thrips - Wikipedia
Diatomaceous earth - Wikipedia
https://www.google.com diotomacious earth
https://www.google.com shopping Monterey Garden Insect Spray with Spinosad
https://www.google.com monterey 3 in 1 all natural
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- #29
TheSoviet
New Member
So I went to a few stores today, and I couldn't find Promix HP. I will see if they can order it in a timely manner. What they did have was Promix container planting mix, and outdoor planting mix. They had the 28L container mix and a 85L container mix, the 85L said it had vermiculite, the former did not. which I found odd, it was the exact same product minus this. Perhaps I overlooked it.
Pro-Mix All Purpose Container Planting Mix, 28 L | Canadian Tire
Pro-Mix All Purpose Outdoor Planting Mix, 28 L | Canadian Tire
The thing is, all three products they carried seem to be for outdoor use. So if I can't find Promix Hp would using one of these products be a huge issue?
Also they had Dolomitic Limestone, and no Dolomite lime. My question are these two products the same ? I mean everything pointed to yes, because it had magnesium, calcium and was a acidic neutralizer, which if I'm not mistaken is what people use the Dolomite lime for.
The leaves with the black dots on them fell off today, so that's good! Just dying leaves I guess. My water is currently 6.5 ph. So just to confirm would I drop this if I were to use Promix ? I will check out those grow journals mentioned above, Just very busy at the moment. Hopefully I can learn a thing or two.
And thanks for the informative post about thrips. I was misinformed thinking they would just strike at night. I spent some time looking over the girls and found nothing, flicking often. Nothing came off.
Noticed some ants outside my grow room. I wiped the entire floor with vinegar, hopefully that stops them.
Pro-Mix All Purpose Container Planting Mix, 28 L | Canadian Tire
Pro-Mix All Purpose Outdoor Planting Mix, 28 L | Canadian Tire
The thing is, all three products they carried seem to be for outdoor use. So if I can't find Promix Hp would using one of these products be a huge issue?
Also they had Dolomitic Limestone, and no Dolomite lime. My question are these two products the same ? I mean everything pointed to yes, because it had magnesium, calcium and was a acidic neutralizer, which if I'm not mistaken is what people use the Dolomite lime for.
The leaves with the black dots on them fell off today, so that's good! Just dying leaves I guess. My water is currently 6.5 ph. So just to confirm would I drop this if I were to use Promix ? I will check out those grow journals mentioned above, Just very busy at the moment. Hopefully I can learn a thing or two.
And thanks for the informative post about thrips. I was misinformed thinking they would just strike at night. I spent some time looking over the girls and found nothing, flicking often. Nothing came off.
Noticed some ants outside my grow room. I wiped the entire floor with vinegar, hopefully that stops them.
TanR
New Member
Hi again Soviet,
I would want to look at the bags or learn more about the Dolomite lime vs. dolomitic lime to ensure the accuracy of this answer, but I suspect the products are the same. I wouldn't hesitate to use this product once I was sure it was as close to 90% CaCo3 as possible.
CIL Granular Dolomitic Limestone | Canadian Tire
With lime, the more finely ground up the better. If you find lime with the wording "fast acting", you've got a winner! Keep in mind we're only talking about adding like a teaspoon or per 3 1/2 liters of soil and only then if your using a product with a high peat moss content. I just can't tell enough about the promix soils you linked above, but they may already be PH adjusted, especially the one for container growing. I think either one would be alright.
I don't beleive your water should be adjusted no matter what soil mix you use. 6.5 is absolutely fine.
Just sharing a thought here, but at some point the search for the perfect soil, perfect water and perfect fertilizer can become kind of overwhelming and provides deminishing returns. I'm as interested as the next guy in giving my plants as good a growing environment as possible. I want the cleanest, best tasting, strongest organic buds of which I'm capable. But the reality is Cannabis is a flippin weed that grows in an incredible range of environments and has for really long time. All the minor differences between some special blend of soil, soil ammendment or fertilizer is about coaxing a little extra weight or speed out of a grow. I'm still really early in the learning curve of indoor growing, as I beleive are you, so my main goal is really to just not kill the dang things and not give myself any brain damage or added stress in the process of growing and learning to grow indoors.
Happy growing my friend.
I would want to look at the bags or learn more about the Dolomite lime vs. dolomitic lime to ensure the accuracy of this answer, but I suspect the products are the same. I wouldn't hesitate to use this product once I was sure it was as close to 90% CaCo3 as possible.
CIL Granular Dolomitic Limestone | Canadian Tire
With lime, the more finely ground up the better. If you find lime with the wording "fast acting", you've got a winner! Keep in mind we're only talking about adding like a teaspoon or per 3 1/2 liters of soil and only then if your using a product with a high peat moss content. I just can't tell enough about the promix soils you linked above, but they may already be PH adjusted, especially the one for container growing. I think either one would be alright.
I don't beleive your water should be adjusted no matter what soil mix you use. 6.5 is absolutely fine.
Just sharing a thought here, but at some point the search for the perfect soil, perfect water and perfect fertilizer can become kind of overwhelming and provides deminishing returns. I'm as interested as the next guy in giving my plants as good a growing environment as possible. I want the cleanest, best tasting, strongest organic buds of which I'm capable. But the reality is Cannabis is a flippin weed that grows in an incredible range of environments and has for really long time. All the minor differences between some special blend of soil, soil ammendment or fertilizer is about coaxing a little extra weight or speed out of a grow. I'm still really early in the learning curve of indoor growing, as I beleive are you, so my main goal is really to just not kill the dang things and not give myself any brain damage or added stress in the process of growing and learning to grow indoors.
Happy growing my friend.
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- #31
TheSoviet
New Member
So just to clear a few things up about the promix that I linked. The one I'm most likely getting today says something along the lines of 75-85% peat moss volume. It did say PH adjustment or something, it has limestone in it.
The other product has 45-55% peat moss, some compost shrimp by products, mycorise endomycorrhizae Inocculant, Peat Humus and Limestone.
The Dolomitic limestone said 101% CaCO3. Found that odd...
Anyway, Going to get the first product and the lime. Going to add 3TBS of Limestone because I'm running 3 gal pots. Unsure if I'm going to add any of the Gaia green conditioner, may add some of my seed starting soil.
Sometimes I forgot that it's just a weed
. I guess I'm trying to do everything I can to get this crop to turn out. I mean it would be great if the plants yielded many healthy potent buds. However I feel very invested in this, I'm not growing for recreational use. I'm growing for medical use, So in this process I'm trying to narrow down strains that are effective for me. So if this grow ultimately fails, I won't view it as a waste of time, because it's a learning process. however I know it will feel that way because of the circumstances.
So I started composting last month. I was thinking for my next grow that I would use the compost and add maybe 30% perlite and try to grow in that. I'm talking when you transplant, not from the get go. Although I would like to try that also. Just popping the seeds in some compost and perlite. I thought perhaps the organic compost could carry me through 50-80% of the grow, then add organic bottled nutes near the end.
The other product has 45-55% peat moss, some compost shrimp by products, mycorise endomycorrhizae Inocculant, Peat Humus and Limestone.
The Dolomitic limestone said 101% CaCO3. Found that odd...
Anyway, Going to get the first product and the lime. Going to add 3TBS of Limestone because I'm running 3 gal pots. Unsure if I'm going to add any of the Gaia green conditioner, may add some of my seed starting soil.
Sometimes I forgot that it's just a weed
. I guess I'm trying to do everything I can to get this crop to turn out. I mean it would be great if the plants yielded many healthy potent buds. However I feel very invested in this, I'm not growing for recreational use. I'm growing for medical use, So in this process I'm trying to narrow down strains that are effective for me. So if this grow ultimately fails, I won't view it as a waste of time, because it's a learning process. however I know it will feel that way because of the circumstances.So I started composting last month. I was thinking for my next grow that I would use the compost and add maybe 30% perlite and try to grow in that. I'm talking when you transplant, not from the get go. Although I would like to try that also. Just popping the seeds in some compost and perlite. I thought perhaps the organic compost could carry me through 50-80% of the grow, then add organic bottled nutes near the end.
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- #32
TheSoviet
New Member
Finished transplanting the girls. Did not use Gaia green fertilizer. 3 table spoons of dolomitic lime, about a cup of starting soil, 2 cups of extra perlite and then the Pro mix. When I say cups I mean the red party cups I had the plants in before.
Going to start the Sensi nutes in about 2-3 weeks.
Went well as far as I can tell. Pictures below.
Going to start the Sensi nutes in about 2-3 weeks.
Went well as far as I can tell. Pictures below.
for peat moss you want a pH of 5.8
this is the pro mix you are after
Professional growing medium
https://www.rona.ca/en/9-l-perlite-12985043
https://www.rona.ca/en/9-l-vermiculite-89455034
the product you have bought will work in your current grow, in the future pick up the ones i have listed.
this is the pro mix you are after
Professional growing medium
https://www.rona.ca/en/9-l-perlite-12985043
https://www.rona.ca/en/9-l-vermiculite-89455034
the product you have bought will work in your current grow, in the future pick up the ones i have listed.
- Thread starter
- #34
TheSoviet
New Member
That first product, pro mix hp. Is what I went to Rona to buy. However they didn't have it. And weren't even sure if they could order it. And if they could they said 2 weeks. I wasn't waiting 2 weeks. So I left and found an alternative.
If I happen to grow with this type of mixture again I will be sure to look into it before hand. I seriously thought the Gaia Conditioner stuff was a soil so when I learned I was mistaken I had to hurry up and find another solution.
If I happen to grow with this type of mixture again I will be sure to look into it before hand. I seriously thought the Gaia Conditioner stuff was a soil
so when I learned I was mistaken I had to hurry up and find another solution.- Thread starter
- #35
TheSoviet
New Member
These markings on the leaves are bothering me. I would like to know if these leaves are normal, I mean they don't look healthy at all. The tops of all the plants look healthy in my beginner opinion. Got a picture of passive intake with screen, I didn't want to spend the extra money on a passive intake fan. Maybe in the future.
I mentioned I planned on starting nutes in 2 weeks, I'm not sure if these leaves are just dying and about to be replaced(this was my assumption). But if nutes will help now I wouldn't mind starting.
It's actually only the tallest plant(Strawberry cough) that is having these markings on the leaves. It also has a ton more leaves then the White Widow.
My temp is 77 and 50% humidity at the moment. 3 fans, 2 blowing directly on them. The light is 18inches away from the Cough, and 20 inches from the Widows. Is there a rule of thumb for light distance ? Would you lower the lights at all ?
I mentioned I planned on starting nutes in 2 weeks, I'm not sure if these leaves are just dying and about to be replaced(this was my assumption). But if nutes will help now I wouldn't mind starting.
It's actually only the tallest plant(Strawberry cough) that is having these markings on the leaves. It also has a ton more leaves then the White Widow.
My temp is 77 and 50% humidity at the moment. 3 fans, 2 blowing directly on them. The light is 18inches away from the Cough, and 20 inches from the Widows. Is there a rule of thumb for light distance ? Would you lower the lights at all ?
i would start all your plants on 1/4 dosage of nutrients now, it should stop the yellowing from continuing. there are several rules that overlap on how high your lamp distance from your plants should be. place your hand underneath the light to the point you can not feel any heat coming from it and move your light to that distance above the plants, raise the light as your plants grow.
here are several charts that should illustrate the distance above your plants that is optimum to have your lights placed at. your optimum distance is probably from 16-18 inches above the plants. if you see heat stress on your tops and leaves raise your lights.
here are several charts that should illustrate the distance above your plants that is optimum to have your lights placed at. your optimum distance is probably from 16-18 inches above the plants. if you see heat stress on your tops and leaves raise your lights.
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- #38
TheSoviet
New Member
Great post King. Thanks a lot. It says 2ML of nutes for smaller plants. I guess just to be safe I'll try 1/4 of the recommended 4ml just to be safe. It's per L.
I have a question about the advanced nutes, or 2-3 part nutes in general. I was reading awhile back before buying the nutes that you add both parts of the grow at the same time. If you were to add one, then other a moment later they lock each other out. Is this true ?
I have a question about the advanced nutes, or 2-3 part nutes in general. I was reading awhile back before buying the nutes that you add both parts of the grow at the same time. If you were to add one, then other a moment later they lock each other out. Is this true ?
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- #39
TheSoviet
New Member
"I have been using Advanced Nutrients for a long time now with very decent results. Use parts A and B AT THE SAME TIME. Do not mix a and b together before putting them in your water or the salts will lock eachother out and it will be a waste. "
This is the quote I was referring to above. I just wanted to know if anyone could shine some light on if this is true or not. I looked around and couldn't find anything else about it. Also it says NOTHING about how to mix it on the bottle, which I felt was odd. Having never done this before would've been great to have any specifics on the bottle.
This is the quote I was referring to above. I just wanted to know if anyone could shine some light on if this is true or not. I looked around and couldn't find anything else about it. Also it says NOTHING about how to mix it on the bottle, which I felt was odd. Having never done this before would've been great to have any specifics on the bottle.
cant help you here man, wish I could.
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