Also water at 70degrees has 10 times the oxygen molecules then at 73F and warmer water will lead to root rot and disease.CL
Switched from Miracle Grow to Foxfarms, trying to survive!
- Thread starter Squisha T
- Start date
Are you talking about the Fox Farm "Big Bloom" and "Tiger Bloom", I bought them through Amazon, I think, and didn't cost too much. I bought a pint bottle of each of the 3 products for $30, so that was$10 a pint.
Once I have amortized the initial costs for the tent, lights and all, some late nutes is nothing. I don't believe I had to add anything except some cal-mag throughout the grow, but you know I am pushing them a bit.
I know. Then one afternoon I was poking around the Fox Farm web site and came across a FAQ page and they mentioned that the bottle dose is when just the one bottle is being used and if two or all three are being used to switch over to the chart schedule.
After thinking about it for a week I went straight to the source and called them about the different dosages and why. While Tiger Bloom or Big Bloom by themselves will not supply a complete balance of what the plant needs the two of them used together is closer to what the plant needs for optimum growing. And, all three together is best. Plus using the combined higher doses mentioned on the back of the bottle for each of them can cause problems because of excess amounts. Not just in the NPK ratios but the other minerals, metals and salts that each bottle can contain. While the dose is reduced on the chart when two or three are combined the total is what Fox Farms feels is the best.
Situations like this might be why some growers recommend that people use 1/2 doses, etc when feeding. They have been going on the amounts listed on the bottles without considering that the total is too much. They then recommend a 1/2 dose and the next grower decides that it is a 1/2 dose even when using just one of the three.
My thoughts on that include the end uses of the macro nutrients found in each of the three.
The Big Bloom supplies the microbes, bacteria and micro-organisms that break down the water insoluble nutrients locked up in the organic and mineral matter in the soil. That way it becomes water soluble and the plant can take it up. The higher dose. Not only is the soil improved for the seedling but the effects continue though the life of the plant. All the microbes and soil organisms that are added by the Big Bloom help to build up a strong root system and that leads to "big blooms" several weeks later. The way I see it, the NPK levels are minimal and mostly from the worm castings used to introduce the micro-organisms.
The Grow Big starts to be used within a few weeks after the plant has started developing a root system and is getting larger with more stems and leaves. This product is the major source of soluble and insoluble Nitrogen that the plant will use for photosynthesis and the growing of anything green on the plant. Even after the flowering starts the Grow Big is continued for at least the first 6 weeks because of the need for the Nitrogen. The amounts of Phosphorous and Potassium in the Grow Big contribute to the development and maturing of the flowers.
The Tiger Bloom is added when the grower is finishing the vegetative stage and just starting the flowering because that is the product that contains the higher amount of Phosphorous. That promotes more flowers, larger and healthier flowers, and helps with root health and is used by the plant for the growing tips which is where the flowers will be. When the grower is introducing the larger dose of Phosphorous before the flowers even start to develop they are anticipating the need the plant will have for it. If the grower waits until after the flowers have started they are running behind and have to play catch-up. Eventually the supply of water soluble Phosphorus can become available but the delay could mean smaller or fewer flowers or weaker flowers.
If the grower is not going to be throwing the plant into flower at the 4 and 5 week mark then they do not need to add the Tiger Bloom. The Big Bloom and the Grow Big are all that is needed to maintain a healthy plant in its vegetating stage.
During the vegetative and blooming stages the plant needs different nutrients. What works while the plant is developing leaves and stems will not be enough for the growth of flowers. Knowing what the plant does with the available Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium helps to remove the confusion. One of the reason that many of the long time growers here mention that newer gardeners research the three macro nutrients and what the plant uses them for.
No matter what brand of fertilizer mix is used they all contain more nitrogen for vegetative growth and lower it as flowering starts and at the same time increase the Phosphorous. Then there is the Potassium that is used to promote overall plant health.
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
They say that FF is an organic based nutrient formula... Then I read The guaranteed analysis and it seems like there’s salts added to their formula ..
Salts are natural minerals. Also, the analysis has nothing to do with the sourcing of the ingredients. There is no such thing as ORGANIC potassium and phosphate. They are both found in nature as salts.
I understand what you’re saying. What I meant was as a new grower myself, I would think it would be easier using a simple 1 part veg formula during veg and a 1 part flower formula during flower for a least 1 grow.
There is already enough going on with equipment tuning, watering, training, staring at them
The nutrient manufactures do this to make you buy more than one container. Some have four or five different nutrients. Most of the non-primary nutrients from these companies are nothing more than just fairy dust. It is all marketing to make it look more complicated than it is. It makes it look like they are better because there is more detail in the preparation. They could very easily pre-mix a vegetative nutrient and a flowering nutrient, but most do not. They could also easily buffer the solutions so that the pH is spot on. Some do and others do not. Other than NPK, all you need is occasional calcium and magnesium. All the other trace minerals are exactly that and only really necessary in tiny amounts and only if you are growing in a non-nutrient medium (hydroponic, DWC, etc.).I understand what you’re saying. What I meant was as a new grower myself, I would think it would be easier using a simple 1 part veg formula during veg and a 1 part flower formula during flower for a least 1 grow.
There is already enough going on with equipment tuning, watering, training, staring at them
There is one similar to what you are asking about. Can't think of the name but the grower buys one package. Then, depending on the age of the plant the grower mixes so many grams of the powder with a certain amount of water. Everything is already there and what they are doing is adding more as the plant goes into flower. It takes a lot of the guess work out of mixing fertilizers and is a very simple method. At the same time it takes away some of the custom fertilizing that some like to do. Though, I guess, those people could add a touch more of a mild Nitrogen in the vegetating stage or a mild form of Poshorous in flower, etc.I understand what you’re saying. What I meant was as a new grower myself, I would think it would be easier using a simple 1 part veg formula during veg and a 1 part flower formula during flower for a least 1 grow.
There is already enough going on with equipment tuning, watering, training, staring at them
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
So you’re saying that the potassium derived from banana and rock phosphate are salts??
I disagree with that.
But, if a grower firmly believes in that then then can buy nothing. They can avoid adding any amendments or nutrients to their soil. That would make it simple and prove to all the fertilizer companies that they have gone to far in researching what is needed to grow healthier plants that produce more than if the plant was just allowed to get by with whatever is in the ground.
Yup! By the way, I am a retired chemist.
Jonny5
Well-Known Member
So if you’re a chemist...? I Just trying to figure..if a farmer uses chemical fertilizer that is proven that it kills microbes and bacteria and beneficial fungi etc. In the soil..how can FF and them and claim that the product is FEEDING the soil when its actually killing the life there in ??
I think we’re still missing each other.
I’m not trying to promote the nutes I used or convert anyone, hell there’s a good chance I won’t use it again next year with all of the options available to us.
There are just so many threads involving ‘how to mix the Trio’’ that it just seems overly complicated for those new to the game.
Not including calmag, I had (2) bottles. 1 during veg and 1 for bloom. Gently increasing the volume per gal or L according to the sched. Easy peasy
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
The chemical salts that are in nutrients do not directly kill microbes and all the rest, simply by contact. Microbes can die out in a container because they are not being used, because the chemical fertilizer goes directly into the plant, so the plants then do not use or reward the microbes for bringing them food, because they already have all they need. Just because someone has used a chemical nutrient does not mean they have instantly killed their microbes... some of that stuff is exactly what microbes eat, but a vital part of their nutrition is the reward that the plants give them, so without that coming in too , the microbes don't thrive, but they don't totally die out either.
Which chemicals are you speaking about? Why do you say FF is proven to kill microbes? Did you see a study indicating this? Since FF has been used successfully by so many growers, I would debate the microbes being killed off. Microbes are essential for absorption off almost all nutrients, especially nitrifying organisms. A farmer wouldn't knowingly add something to the soil that would kill beneficial micro-organisms. Please give me details for me to explore. Best regards.
I just opened my mail and there must be 20 reminders of comments on this thread. I am going to have to stop this, so best regards to everyone. When the discussion went to the difference in oxygen content dependent on water temperature I realized this place is not for me. It may mean something for hydro but not for dirt.That is the silliest thing I have heard since the last time I heard something from Trump. So thank you for the help but my inbox is wrecked.
Sueet
Well-Known Member
If you click your name up at the top and choose 'preferences', you can uncheck whichever things you don't want notifications or emails for.
