To flush or not to flush?

[HappyHazmat88]

Ok hi all so.....I have a quick question regarding flushing.... I've been told to do it....Ive been told to not do it... Who's right?

My understanding is that you only flush if you have salt build up or if you must reset the medium to try to correct issues that are occurring.... I personally don't know anything about hydro or similar so I'm only referring to soil based mediums.

Can someone.....honestly anyone clearify this for me?

 

[HappyHazmat88]

@Bill284 @Krissi1982 @Melville Hobbes @Rexer @Roy Growin

 

[HappyHazmat88]

The interwebz are contradicting.... One place says to flush to remove excess nutrients from the plant to prevent harsh flavor or smoke...then another will say flushing the plant with water does not remove nutrients from the plant so it's not necessary and during a blind smoke test the participants actually preferred the non flushed over the flushed plant??????

 

[Emilya Green]

I know I wasn't on the preferred commentator list, but I am giving my 2c anyway. If you use chelated synthetic nutes, then salt is building up and you should flush the soil at least at week 6 with a 3x the container sized flush. If you are not using synthetic nutes, there is no reason to flush.

If you are thinking that the word flushing means giving only water at the end, for a week or even 2... I would never recommend doing such a harmful thing to a plant that needs the most nutrition it ever did, right at the end. If this is what you mean by the word, flush, you can flush soil but you can not flush a plant. The whole concept is ill-logical. feed right up to the end.

 

[HappyHazmat88]

I know I wasn't on the preferred commentator list, but I am giving my 2c anyway. If you use chelated synthetic nutes, then salt is building up and you should flush the soil at least at week 6 with a 3x the container sized flush. If you are not using synthetic nutes, there is no reason to flush.

If you are thinking that the word flushing means giving only water at the end, for a week or even 2... I would never recommend doing such a harmful thing to a plant that needs the most nutrition it ever did, right at the end. If this is what you mean by the word, flush, you can flush soil but you can not flush a plant. The whole concept is ill-logical. feed right up to the end.

Awesome thank you em....and it wasn't that you weren't on the top of my list of tags...it's just these particular growers are fairly quick with responses to me.

But the reason for the question, is I told another member to not flush just because he's at the end of his grow....but to flush if he needs to fix something.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

The interwebz are contradicting.... One place says to flush to remove excess nutrients from the plant to prevent harsh flavor or smoke...then another will say flushing the plant with water does not remove nutrients from the plant so it's not necessary and during a blind smoke test the participants actually preferred the non flushed over the flushed plant??????

One problem is the use of the term flushing to mean different things, as you're finding out.
You can't remove excess nutes from the plant. There are some growers who think that cutting off feeding during the last week or two will make the plant use up what nutes are already there, improving quality and taste. The problem there is most people don't see any difference between buds fed up until the end, and those where nutes were cut off, except lower yield from the plants that were cut off.
I've always used the term flush to mean 3x the volume of the pot in water poured through to remove any built up nutes. Kind of a reset of the medium.
Feeding the plant after that is a must though.

Now to read the messages that were posted while I was typing that and see how much of what I've written has already been said

 

[Bill284]

Ok hi all so.....I have a quick question regarding flushing.... I've been told to do it....Ive been told to not do it... Who's right?

My understanding is that you only flush if you have salt build up or if you must reset the medium to try to correct issues that are occurring.... I personally don't know anything about hydro or similar so I'm only referring to soil based mediums.

Can someone.....honestly anyone clearify this for me?

Hey Hap Hope your doing well my friend.
There are 2 different flushes but only one is for you plants.
Excess salts build up around your roots so some nutrient schedules include a flush.
This is good and should be done when instructed, plain water 3x the size of the pot.
In a laundry or bath tub works.
The 2nd flush is for your Thomas Crapper .
Just pull the chain when your done.
But seriously a starvation flush is a detriment to a plant trying to build for you.
Just my 2 cents
Take care.



Stay safe
Bill284

 

[HappyHazmat88]

One problem is the use of the term flushing to mean different things, as you're finding out.
You can't remove excess nutes from the plant. There are some growers who think that cutting off feeding during the last week or two will make the plant use up what nutes are already there, improving quality and taste. The problem there is most people don't see any difference between buds fed up until the end, and those where nutes were cut off, except lower yield from the plants that were cut off.
I've always used the term flush to mean 3x the volume of the pot in water poured through to remove any built up nutes. Kind of a reset of the medium.
Feeding the plant after that is a must though.

Now to read the messages that were posted while I was typing that and see how much of what I've written has already been said

Right so let's just say fox farms nutrient line.... They recommend flushing due to it being synthetic nutes and does build up salt....that's one reason why I stopped using it...I saw it building up on bottle edge and was like huh that's prolly building up in soil to....and I had issues alot.

And as mentioned organic nutes like geoflora don't require a flush at all.

This has stuck with me.

Really, flushing is an extension of the fact that most people are over-feeding their plants,” says *****, advising growers to feed their plants lightly, in many cases at lower levels than recommended by nutrient manufacturers.

“It’s always easier to bump up the nutrients when you see a deficiency than it is to remove nutrients when you’ve overfed,”*****

 

[Roy Growin]

Hello Hazmat - here's my take, 'Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once...'

Once the trichomes have set and are just ripening for the last 7-10 days, I don't feed since the plant is not actually growing any more, it is senescent so there is little point
I have used several different flushing [hate that erroneous term] agents, and some of them impart flavour to the product, lemon or blueberry flavour for example
From that I deduce that what's in the sap at the end does indeed leave some kind of residue
Therefore I give plain water in the shower, then finally water with a little H2O2, then let it start to dry in the pot before I chop. In my opinion the smoke tastes better and burns more smoothly

Old pal of mine did a grow and chucked god knows what chemicals at it including tons of silicon, shooting powder etc
Great plant, huge buds, but horrid to smoke

As above, this only applies to synthetic nutes and is only my opinion based on my experiences


*edit* yes, I agree with your last paragraph, I hardly ever use full strength, maybe once or twice

 

[HappyHazmat88]

Hey Hap Hope your doing well my friend.
There are 2 different flushes but only one is for you plants.
Excess salts build up around your roots so some nutrient schedules include a flush.
This is good and should be done when instructed, plain water 3x the size of the pot.
In a laundry or bath tub works.
The 2nd flush is for your Thomas Crapper .
Just pull the chain when your done.
But seriously a starvation flush is a detriment to a plant trying to build for you.
Just my 2 cents
Take care.



Stay safe
Bill284

Lol Thomas crapper lol

But ok yea then I'm kinda on point... If line requires it then flush.... Or if reset is needed ....flush.

But otherwise don't cuz it's not required it's only harmful.

 

[HappyHazmat88]

Hello Hazmat - here's my take, 'Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once...'

Once the trichomes have set and are just ripening for the last 7-10 days, I don't feed since the plant is not actually growing any more, it is senescent so there is little point
I have used several different flushing [hate that erroneous term] agents, and some of them impart flavour to the product, lemon or blueberry flavour for example
From that I deduce that what's in the sap at the end does indeed leave some kind of residue
Therefore I give plain water in the shower, then finally water with a little H2O2, then let it start to dry in the pot before I chop. In my opinion the smoke tastes better and burns more smoothly

Old pal of mine did a grow and chucked god knows what chemicals at it including tons of silicon, shooting powder etc
Great plant, huge buds, but horrid to smoke

As above, this only applies to synthetic nutes and is only my opinion based on my experiences


*edit* yes, I agree with your last paragraph, I hardly ever use full strength, maybe once or twice

Oh cool never knew there was flavor additives... I would never do it but that's cool to know if anyone asks me.

But thank you for your input...I only need to be told things once on the usual for me to understand.... I just needed to get this one right...for mine and others I'm trying my hardest to help sake.


I do close to what you do minus the drenching(changed it for you).... Last week or so get last 12-14 day feed with a heavier water...and then let it start to dry out on the stem before I chop. May I ask why the H2O2?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Some good replies & high time the mind set to flushing is changing

 

[Roy Growin]

Oh cool never knew there was flavor additives... I would never do it but that's cool to know if anyone asks me.

But thank you for your input...I only need to be told things once on the usual for me to understand.... I just needed to get this one right...for mine and others I'm trying my hardest to help sake.


I do close to what you do minus the drenching(changed it for you).... Last week or so get last 12-14 day feed with a heavier water...and then let it start to dry out on the stem before I chop. May I ask why the H2O2?

Mostly because it provides masses of Oxygen and pure water to the roots [final push for the roots] and dries a bit more quickly; ensures there are no mold spores on/in the soil which could get into the buds
I also use H2O2 bud wash before hanging rather than lemon/bicarb and all that - just dunk and dry

No problem with flushing as in flushing salts from soil, but giving the plant plain water isn't flushing the plant, it's simply replacing the nutrient rich sap with distilled water

Take a daffodil and split its stem, put one half in water the other tinted with food dye
One side of the flower will change colour
Giving plain water won't remove that colour, but it will make sure any excess dye within the plant leaches out

Nothing more to add to that

 

[Krissi Carbone]

Well I'm jumping behind some lovely information so I'll just say I used to flush and was asked by @West Hippie to read @InTheShed s "no flush club" link.

I have since not flushed a single plant

After flushing and then not, I don't see why I ever flushed in the first place but it is all personal preference!

 

[Roy Growin]

Well I'm jumping behind some lovely information so I'll just say I used to flush and was asked by @West Hippie to read @InTheShed s "no flush club" link.

I have since not flushed a single plant

After flushing and then not, I don't see why I ever flushed in the first place but it is all personal preference!

Frankly, I think it is a little unfair of Shed to make sweeping statements such as 'no flush club' because it's a little too much like 'if you're not doing it my way you're wrong' which is not helpful
Flushing/drenching/preparing - call it what you like but there are some circumstances where it is an appropriate course of action or quite simply a preference, a grower's prerogative

 

[Emilya Green]

Everyone running synthetic nutes should try the flush experiment in week 6. Flush a couple of your plants 3x and then feed till the end. The rest, simply feed to the end. At the end, compare and contrast.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Everyone running synthetic nutes should try the flush experiment in week 6. Flush a couple of your plants 3x and then feed till the end. The rest, simply feed to the end. At the end, compare and contrast.

Indoors I might try that sometime. I'm usually up for an experiment. But outdoors, especially at the beginning of Autumn when it's starting to rain more often there's no point for me. It'll be flushed whether I want it to be or not, lol.
I'd also want to get a bigger tent. I'd like to veg long enough for there to be a chance for salts to build up in the medium, and in a 2x2 I'd be sure to have space issues.

 

[Emilya Green]

Frankly, I think it is a little unfair of Shed to make sweeping statements such as 'no flush club' because it's a little too much like 'if you're not doing it my way you're wrong' which is not helpful
Flushing/drenching/preparing - call it what you like but there are some circumstances where it is an appropriate course of action or quite simply a preference, a grower's prerogative

Anytime anyone makes a generalization that is meant to discredit a common practice, and especially one that many growers all over the globe use and are recommended to use in multiple grow guides, there is a problem. Proclamations such as claiming that flushing should never be done except to clear a problem, or that pH never needs to be adjusted in a buffered soil, should be scrutinized very carefully. Blanket pronouncements like these are in my opinion doing a great disservice to the growing community. As a result of this conflicting information, and even clubs springing up endorsing these new age techniques, some people are outright discouraged from using tried and true methods and others find themselves confused by all the conflicting advice found even here, with even top growers on this forum arguing about the details and merits of these practices.

The safest way to negotiate this minefield is to trust nothing that you have not verified in your own garden. If anyone has seen me do it, I have and can now prove that a synthetic grow needs to be pH adjusted, with facts and logic, but still the belief that this is not necessary stubbornly and regularly raises its head around here. We oftentimes see grows get in trouble by not adjusting their fluids pH and never flushing their soil. I have explained many times, even to Shed, that without putting your nutes into the proper pH range, 4 chelated elements will not be available to the plants and these 4 are critical to the overall growth. Sadly, some people seem to be more inclined to believe in personality, rather than logic and science. There is nothing new in this, but it is frustrating to see among a community that is trying to learn from each other and to advance the state of the art.

 

[Roy Growin]

Anytime anyone makes a generalization that is meant to discredit a common practice, and especially one that many growers all over the globe use and are recommended to use in multiple grow guides, there is a problem. Proclamations such as claiming that flushing should never be done except to clear a problem, or that pH never needs to be adjusted in a buffered soil, should be scrutinized very carefully. Blanket pronouncements like these are in my opinion doing a great disservice to the growing community. As a result of this conflicting information, and even clubs springing up endorsing these new age techniques, some people are outright discouraged from using tried and true methods and others find themselves confused by all the conflicting advice found even here, with even top growers on this forum arguing about the details and merits of these practices.

The safest way to negotiate this minefield is to trust nothing that you have not verified in your own garden. If anyone has seen me do it, I have and can now prove that a synthetic grow needs to be pH adjusted, with facts and logic, but still the belief that this is not necessary stubbornly and regularly raises its head around here. We oftentimes see grows get in trouble by not adjusting their fluids pH and never flushing their soil. I have explained many times, even to Shed, that without putting your nutes into the proper pH range, 4 chelated elements will not be available to the plants and these 4 are critical to the overall growth. Sadly, some people seem to be more inclined to believe in personality, rather than logic and science. There is nothing new in this, but it is frustrating to see among a community that is trying to learn from each other and to advance the state of the art.

I could not have put it better myself, thank you Emilya

 

[bobj]

Organics all the way.

Pardon my ignorance, but whenever I hear the terms 'alkali metals' I'm immediately taken to a place with batteries and tinfoil. Not in my plant pot.