Trimming fan leaves

[roaring lion]

I usually stick to the VPD chart until about 1 to 2 weeks into flower, then I start lowering the humidity by 5% every week until harvest, that way the final 2 weeks is low humidity like 30-35% to trigger a few more trichomes.

I see. I'm in the interior of BC, gets pretty dry around here with outside RH regularly below 50%, sometimes below 40%. at night, the valley bottom I live in gets all the cold damp air settling down in the valley bottom. lots of dew in the a.m. I'm at the mercy of Mother Nature to a large extent. it was 7.2 degrees C this a.m. (around 45 F).

 

[Buds Buddy]

Couldn't agree more. I had a few things happen that caused me to give away my last 2 grows so it screwed me on stash.
I'll never buy used equipment from someone again after those incidents. Especially when they tell me they have a grow facility & grow for dispensaries. Then a week later they call you wanting to buy a LB. ??? WTF is with that ??? Gave my plants away & shut down 15 minutes after that call. After 6 weeks & nothing happening I figured it was just a co-incidence. Went & got my card the next day.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I see. I'm in the interior of BC, gets pretty dry around here with outside RH regularly below 50%, sometimes below 40%. at night, the valley bottom I live in gets all the cold damp air settling down in the valley bottom. lots of dew in the a.m. I'm at the mercy of Mother Nature to a large extent. it was 7.2 degrees C this a.m. (around 45 F).

If you're outdoor then VPD is completely meaningless because theres absolutely zero you can do to change it.
You're just at the mercy of the elements.

I cringe at the thought of growing outdoor.

 

[Sask420grow]

Haha. Your fine. Check out these bushy bitches.

 

[roaring lion]

loving those prairie bushes bro. super green, dense growth. best wishes for a nice august/Sept in the land of the living skies

 

[Buds Buddy]

Haha. Your fine. Check out these bushy bitches.

Those L@@K SWEET !!!

 

[Buds Buddy]

I did a defoliation on my AK 47 yesterday so thought I'd post a few pics. The leaves in the green bowl all came from one plant. I trim that many leaves 3 - 4 times off each plant every grow.

 

[Weaselcracker]

They definitely look pretty with no leaves like that. Do you think it makes the buds bigger,
or just gains some bud in the lower areas? I find especially with the pure sativas, that most of my leaves have died off by harvest anyway.
I used to try stripping fan leaves, never felt like I gained anything, and usually felt like I lost a bunch for my efforts, but I’ve heard it works well for certain strains.
A Pineapple Chunk I harvested a couple days ago. Maybe if I had grown it without training it into a mop-top there would have been some need to remove leaves, I don’t know. As it is I’ve left it completely alone other than the slapdash training.

PC2

• Weaselcracker
• Aug 5, 2019

 

[Buds Buddy]

I think that by trimming the upper Fan Leaves it allows more light to the lower stuff which in turn makes the lower stuff grow toward the top also. The Top buds are usually the biggest so I try to get as much to grow up top as possible. The last week or two I pretty much just trim 85% - 90% of them off so I don't have to do it when I actually harvest. Not sure if I gain or lose anything by doing so. But once it's not growing much or the Hairs are 50% Red I remove the leaves because I know I'm about 7 - 10 days from harvest at most.

 

[roaring lion]

They definitely look pretty with no leaves like that. Do you think it makes the buds bigger,
or just gains some bud in the lower areas? I find especially with the pure sativas, that most of my leaves have died off by harvest anyway.
I used to try stripping fan leaves, never felt like I gained anything, and usually felt like I lost a bunch for my efforts, but I’ve heard it works well for certain strains.
A Pineapple Chunk I harvested a couple days ago. Maybe if I had grown it without training it into a mop-top there would have been some need to remove leaves, I don’t know. As it is I’ve left it completely alone other than the slapdash training.

PC2

• Weaselcracker
• Aug 5, 2019

that outdoor plant has beautiful fluffy flowers...what a beauty

 

[roaring lion]

i mean all those photos show great big flowers...they've all been lovely it just shows that different techniques work well for certain people. that ak looks exquisite... i'm going to try a couple different techniques based on what i see here...

 

[Weaselcracker]

There’s a good thread on defoliation here Pruning effects on yield?
The best I can figure out is that in most cases it’s best to leave the leaves alone. As in almost all cases millennia of evolution wins out over short term human interference. A little trimming of undergrowth is standard procedure, and some strains may yield a little better with defol when it’s done right.
IMO most of the time defol happens simply because growers can’t resist messing around with their plants. I see new growers all the time pulling off fan leaves. After a dozen years of growing it still seems like I’ve got so much to learn in so many areas - why would I start ripping off leaves when I could make more certain improvements in so many more obvious areas?
If you feel you’ve got your grow dialed in perfectly and are in a position to try something radical - maybe worth a try.
If you just want to mess around- that’s totally cool too of course. We all do. Generally though over the years I’ve seen a whole lot more defoliation than I’ve seen improved yield. Not convinced so far. Just my 2c

 

[roaring lion]

no argument on the "messing around with their plants" due to lack of self constraint, we're human. up until now i've plucked off yellowing fan leaves from some of the oldest parts of the plant...while i struggle with even this type of intervention, i've removed some DNA from the plant. who knows what cellular/physiological effects this has on the plant.? maybe if the leaves were left alone, the sugars and carbon molecules within them would have been recycled and turned into trichome oil or some other medicinal healing component. who knows what the DNA was destined to be?

i've not done anything radical yet, but as you point out, trimming undergrowth is standard procedure. i haven't gotten close to that point yet, but if i trim one of them a little more than another and see if there is a difference in yield, i can learn from the effort. one trial proves nothing, but a small risk and educational all at the same time.

those buds look so fluffy

 

[Weaselcracker]

Totally. Yeah one of these days when I feel like I’ve got the right sort of strain- heavy indica Kush type stuff - I’m going to give defol another whirl. For now I’m busy enough trying to keep them semi-happy without adding extra work.

That fluffy plant is just that particular pheno. First harvest of that one. I’ve got a few other of PC that are different. And other strains that are definitely not fluffy.

I do like how it looks though . So fluffy..

 

[Buds Buddy]

There are legit reasons to remove some Fan leaves. The 2 biggest reasons being Light Penetration & Air Flow. If I don't thin out the Fan Leaves I get moisture on my leaves. I have to get air flowing through the plants to prevent it. I know it all has to do with VPD & according to the charts it doesn't get much closer than I have it. I run at 77 - 79 F with 65% - 70% R.H. during Veg & 77 - 81 F with about 60% R.H. during Flower. So in some cases I find it necessary to defol. As far as it increasing yield .... Don't really know for sure because I haven't grown 2 of the same strain at the same time & defoliate 1 & not the other. That's the only real way to tell if it helps or not. But it solves the moisture on the leaves problem so I'm good with it.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yeah I think we’re pretty much on the same page as far as that goes BB.

Indoor growing, limited light spread, limited air flow, usually benefits from some training and undergrowth removal.
I do see a lot of new growers clipping fans because they think they’re ‘blocking the light’. I’m pretty skeptical about that. But... each to their own.

 

[roaring lion]

hey ya'll
i'm nearly 50 years old, took a bunch of years off growing, so while a 14 year hiatus from growing justifiably puts me in the "new growers" category, i've studied plant physiology, biochemistry, cell physiology and a bunch of other courses related to ecosystem biology while at university. this doesn't mean a thing in the big picture and is not an attempt to circumvent wisdom from expert growers. my mind is always open to input from a total greenhorn to the expert grower...at the stage of the game when your oldest fan leaves begin to go chlorotic, i'd lke to think the plant is attempting to recapture all of the worthy molecules (oils, carbon chains, glucose, chlorphyll, etc.) to be recycled for use in other parts of the plant as the flowering stage progresses. all of these sugars, and other by-products from photosynthesis are clearly used for some cellular process within the plant, either locally or elsewhere. so do you "do your plant a favour" and cut the losses before the plant has a chance to retrieve the molecules from the dying leaf, or let nature run it's course? obviously different for indoor growers compared to those who are at the mercy of the sun, but have the luxury of the wind to ventilate and help out the transpiration process. it also requires some form of cellular activity to "repair" the point at which we pluck leaves or remove entire sub-branches. while we can all agree the plants are resilient, the energy input to make these "repairs" is energy the plant could be using to develop more oils for the things we love the most. just a few random thoughts. impossible to know what the "right" thing to do is...

what would ya'll do for these plants? tomorrow willbe exactly 14 weeks since they broke ground. germinated on may 6th. i've also attached a photo of the nodes to show that the ladies are still stretching and aside from pistils showing, bud growth and development is not happening in earnest...so the question remains...to leave or not to leave?

happy weekend ya'll...and remember: only users lose dope

 

[Nunyabiz]

I would leave until yellow.
If those are outdoor I would put them in much larger pots.
Like 20+ gallon fabric

 

[roaring lion]

thanks nunyabiz...yes they live outside! i ordered 10 gallon fabric pots which arrive on tuesday when i will transplant...i guess i'll be ordering some larger fabric bags for next year...

 

[Buds Buddy]

Yes .... Transplant !!! That's why they aren't as big as they could be. At 1st I was thinking over watered from the droopy leaves but Nunya caught it. They are root bound & can't grow bigger. I personally would take a few leaves off but not many. Just the big ones that are laying directly on top of each other is all I'd take off.