Vortex's Lab: 4x4 Secondary Garden & Experimental Thread

[multiVortex]

I wonder if maybe it could be wind burn?

I don't think anything is blowing hard enough on it, but that also crossed my mind. It may be a couple spots right there that are getting a tick more than another.

That plant is in the back right, and fans are blowing from back left and front right.

 

[Pennywise]

Hopefully she goes the full distance.

 

[multiVortex]

]


This pic is kind of close, although the yellowing goes a little deeper from the margin towards the main vein. The lower one where this is happening is also a little droopy/very slight wilt look to her.

This pic is of a mg def, but below the description of this it also mentioned that very similar symptoms can occur on lower leaves with less intense lighting. In the past week or two I've been ramping up the lights from an early veg of 20k lux to 50k, so maybe that contributed to the issue.

She's growing well other than that though, and I'm adjusting her training bonds as frequent as the rest.

 

[multiVortex]

Lab - Spring 2020: 45 Days From Sprout

Well shit. It's been almost 2 week without an update? I've been plenty busy in the garden overall with teardowns, change overs, cleaning, and growin some plants!

Hard to believer that two weeks ago we were here:

Why?


Because today, we're here:

The Durban in the back left is just taking over, and they all are in the stretch period as they transition to flower. (Note the preflowers forming.) The Durban is also a bit taller than her light mate (Orange Bud) to the right as she didn't start stretching until a few days after the Durban, but I have a fix for that.

Same goes for the Cream Cookies in the front right, and her mate to the left, Night Queen. Although the difference isn't as quite as significant.

The fix?

Defol the shit out of the two bigger ones. I didn't get as drastic with the Cream Cookies, but did get maybe 85% of the fans off the Durban, and 65%-70% off the Cream Cookies. That should (hopefully) slow their stretch down a bit and let the other two catch up. Once they're close, I'll defol them as well, but probably not as much as the others. But who knows, maybe I'll change my mind. After seeing what the Granddaddy Purple did in the Dev Lab with a full post-stretch defol, I may go for it.

Damn, that durban is growing and encroaching into the Orange Bud, and the Night Queen. It wouldn't have been long before she was into the Cream Cookies even. And the funny part is it all happened in about two days, maybe three. (While I was distracted with harvest and cleaning duties.)

The issue with the Orange Bud is resolved. Ended up being wind burn, I believe. Adjusted the fans a bit, and over the last week it's appearance has improved significantly. Guess she's a sensitive one to air movement, so I'll keep that in mind down the road.

For anyone keeping track, we're in week 7, although it feels like it should only be week 3.

This means we extended our veg time by about an extra two weeks. I'm good with that, and it further strengthens my thoughts on how much you fuck with them through defol and selective pruning makes a difference.

This go around I went with a middle of the road approach, maybe just under. That wasn't my initial plan before the drop, but it's what ended up happening. Took 8-10 fans per plant every third day, although a time or two it was only 2 days between.

Could I have taken more at one time? Absolutely. These hedges would have been perfect for a bit heavier of a defol. I can't imagine that Durban having went any longer though. She's set to potentially become a beast, and they all look to be headed in a good direction.

The girls were held at 5g/gal of MC this week, and seem to be well with that. The mix also includes 2ml/gal of Rhino Skin for a slight silica boost, 1ml/gal of Calimagic, 4ml/gal of the organic cal mag (no N), 5ml/gal of terpinator, and 0.5ml/gal of Z7 (0.5ml each of A and B).

They seem to be fine with this mix, and no clawing or anything like that. It may even be a hair weak for them, but I don't think so. I did see a couple lighter green leaves, but they were brand new leaves and I think they just hadn't greened up fully yet. Keeping an eye out though.

EC: 2.05
pH: 5.7
Res Temp: 73F-75F
Tent Temp: 80F day, 73F night
RH: 54%



Now for some general "area improvement" info. AKA: new toys!

Nothing over the top this time, but definitely something useful. Specifically, a 36"x24" dry erase board, as well as 3 of these little gadgets...

Da fuq is that?

It's a Boogie Board Jot, and about the size of an iPad.

OK, but WTF does that even mean?

It's effectively digital paper. Like a sticky note. Makes notes, and press the button to clear it off. They don't need charged, and I got them on a deal with Bezos for just over half price ($16 instead of $30.)


So what I'll be using these for (and I may get a couple more if these work out) is as a notepad/list type deal. I'll put one by each tent, and keep things on it like current mix, watch plant 3 lower leaves, blah blah. Stuff that changes at least weekly.

I was originally going to get some small dry erase boards, but these were about the same price. The larger board I did get will keep track of things like supplies, current stock, long term grow info (start, when to watch for the end of flower, etc), and any notes/info I want to keep track of.

None of these are going to be extended journals or data stores, but more quick glance while in the garden to save having to look things up.

 

[multiVortex]

And a short 36 hours after the defol...

The Night Queen has almost caught up to the Cream Cookies (front left and right), and the Orange Bud in the back right is catching up, but still about 5" short overall (8" on a couple big sticks) of catching the Durban Poison.


I'll be leaving them alone for the remainder of the stretch, save the DP as she needs to slow her roll just a hair still. Of course if something starts blowing up in size, I'll have fiskars at the ready.


The new note boards arrived today as well.

Do they work?

Yes they do!

 

[Pennywise]

Those note pads look handi

 

[multiVortex]

All joking aside, I think they will be very handy. No charging, replaceable battery (CR2016) that lasts a long damn time too.

I'll be hanging one by each tent, and keep weekly notes on them. Mix components, amount, veg/flower start, week #, etc.It's like having a notepad on the fridge, but no paper. I think they'll work out really great. Especially during times when the mix changes every week. Being under $20 didn't hurt either.

 

[multiVortex]

Halfway through a major defol. Top layer isn’t pressed down any, but the others are. I really didn’t want to do a big one yet, but there’s just so much bush that it’s driving the RH close to 65%, which is about 18% above the room. And that’s with the exhaust pulling out over 300cfm.

Our pairs (front and back) are close to the same height, so any slowdown in stretch should be even enough.

Taking all the big ass fans from the bottom, doing a tiny bit of cleaning up/pre-lollipopping as well.

More pics and rambling later tonight or tomorrow sometime.

 

[multiVortex]

Found some little metal squares that magnets can stick to, that have an adhesive backing. Problem of notepad hanging: solved!



I think I'm coming to the conclusion that Rhino Skin isn't near as "pH perfect" as claimed by the manufacturer. (Oh, no wai!)

Over the last 3 weeks I've been fighting a sharply rising pH for the first couple days of a new mix. Like a full point or more, not a typical 1/10th here and there every couple of days. To that end, I'm going to give it one more week, and only run 0.5ml/gal (10ml total) to see if that changes anything. If it's better, and not near as difficult of a fight (we're talking about 60ml of pH down over 2 days) then I'll keep going. If not, then I'll can it all together and just have to be content with what MC already has.

 

[multiVortex]

Day 49....

Shot of the Durban Poison. She's startin to stack already. Kinda stirs the giggities in ya, ya know?

Cream Cookies frostin up.

Then we have the Night Queen. Gettin frosty AF already.



Had a pic of the Orange Bud as well, but for whatever reason it came out blurry. I'll get one next time.

 

[johnnystackz]

Cream cookies & Night queen are looking mighty tasty! Your Durban looks like beast! Hope you get a good pull from that Durban as it looks like a monster!

 

[multiVortex]

Thanks Johnny!

I'm realizing just now that I didn't include the full shot with those above.

Here it is!

You can really see the height of the Durban over the rest. The other 3 have mostly caught up, but the durban is still a good 6" taller in many places.

So far the durban has an awesomely sweet, fruity smell to her. Crossing my fingers she keeps it! Not that the jet fuel terp I found with her photo cousin was bad (it was pretty awesome, I ain't gonna lie), but I would like to see a bit more of the normal terp profile from her.

We're in that "boring AF" phase now, pretty much. Where it's like watching, well, grass grow.

Now we just nurse the plants as best we can, and watch for the flowers to grow and do good things.

 

[johnnystackz]

Thanks Johnny!

I'm realizing just now that I didn't include the full shot with those above.

Here it is!

You can really see the height of the Durban over the rest. The other 3 have mostly caught up, but the durban is still a good 6" taller in many places.

So far the durban has an awesomely sweet, fruity smell to her. Crossing my fingers she keeps it! Not that the jet fuel terp I found with her photo cousin was bad (it was pretty awesome, I ain't gonna lie), but I would like to see a bit more of the normal terp profile from her.

We're in that "boring AF" phase now, pretty much. Where it's like watching, well, grass grow.

Now we just nurse the plants as best we can, and watch for the flowers to grow and do good things.

I find this stage delightful with all the aroma

keep up the good work my friend! I’ll be watching how the flowering turns out! But for the most part everything looks healthy so thumbs up on that! Excited to see how much you pull on that Durban!

 

[multiVortex]

So far they’re doing their thing.

I find with multiple strains that when you open the tent the aroma is kinda muddied between them all. Not bad, but sometimes it would be nice for a single terp profile, and to be able to get a sniff of the real deal when you open the tent.

 

[multiVortex]

Well shit. It looks like our “old friend” is rearing its nasty head again.

What’s weird is it’s the top sugars on a handful of sticks. Everything below looks fine. I thought maybe light, but it isn’t like it’s all under center. Thought maybe wind, but one of the fans crapped out on me and the spots affected aren’t in the direct line of fire.

Already giving 6ml/gal of calmag, guess I’ll be bumping that up with the water change tomorrow.

Currently at 5.5g/gal of megacrop, probably going to bump that up to 6 or even 6.5. The first pic was earlier this week. If you look, you can see in the back towards the left that it had started in a few spots.

Only one plant is showing this, and she is right about 16”-18” under the light.

If it ain’t one thing it’s another.

 

[multiVortex]

Water change day.

9ml/gal calmag, 6g/gal megacrop, 10ml/gal terpinator, 1.5ml/gal bleach.


Note that MC was bumped up 1/2g/gal, and calmag increased 50%.


I also did a measure of light height. Durban was 14"-16" on average from the light, where it's lightmate is right at the 18" mark. Raising it enough wasn't a decent option, as it would take it too far away from the other plant. Super cropping, meh. If needed, ok, but it wasn't really going to help to supercrop the whole plant.

Solution? I cut the light back from 100% to 90%. While it will drop the PPFD on the other plant just a bit, the amount will be negligible in the big picture. However, it should be just enough to curb the durban if it's a light issue on her. I did notice a little upcurl in places earlier when I was in there. This is why the slight cut back on intensity. I may change this up, but I'm not 100% sure yet. It would be possible to raise up the orange bud's bucket a bit, so I may do that and then level the light back to 18" over both. Going to have to think that one through for a bit this afternoon while I make some more coconut canna oil.

 

[multiVortex]

Girls are fine. A little war damage but hopefully getting it handled. Pics later, we got other bidness.

Specifically, what’s next? With these girls halfway through flower, give or take, it’s definitely not too early to think about the next run.

Here it is:

- Candyland (Emerald Triangle)
- Orange Sherbert (Barney’s)
- Blue Cheese (Barney’s)
- Liberty Haze (Barney’s)


Already have the seeds, so nothing to do but wait.

 

[multiVortex]

Here we go. Unedited, and undocumented footage from deep within the secret la-bor-a-tory of one mr vortex...


(Or maybe just some shots of the girls. Take your pic, choose your own adventure and shit. )


First up, full tent shot(s):

Tent has filled in well, Durban is a hair taller than her roommates.



Speaking of Durban, let's start with her for a random bud shot from each plant. Here she is, in all her fruity goodness:

Next up, Night Queen:

Maybe some Orange Bud next? Alrighty then:

And we'll wrap it up with some Cream Cookie goodness:

She's getting purple up top, even some on the sugars.







You can easily see in the full tent shots that some eating of their own leaves is going on with the Durban, and to a lesser extent the Cream Cookies in a few small areas.

With this weeks mix, I've bumped the calmag up to 11ml/gal as well as added in just a tick of a PK boost. Not a lot, but just a dash. Whatever I can do to help see them make it through with good results.


Reading in-depth to the calcium thing, and their use of it has lead to some interesting concepts. The biggest takeaway I've found so far (paraphrased, and need to dig even more into just to be sure it's an established principle) has been that they don't use near as much calcium in the initial phases as they do once the flowers start to pop. Then they really hit it hard. Thing is, they've been building up their calcium reserve from the start. Apparently once in flower like this, you pretty much got what you got. They can take some up, but once you've seen the indications you're weeks past help and can only go into damage control mode.


Now, that's what I've been researching, and not my opinion or fact yet. Some of that I can see, but I've also seen an increase in calmag stop further damage or at least knock it back a good bit.

My current thought is that the above is maybe half and half. I think that supplementing more from the start would help ensure a solid reserve, but also having to keep it up so it doesn't run out and start the whole leaf cannibalization shit.

Not much can be done now other than control and pray, but next run I will be doubling my calcium additions from the start, if not tripling, and see how it goes.

My suspicion is that I haven't been adding enough, a couple strains have wanted/needed more, and here we are. First thing is the RO, and replacing what would normally be there. Then with LED's and hydro, well, adding in more to compensate for that.

I've pretty much been running parallel to what I've been feeding with MC. So 1g MC, 1ml Calmag. 2/2, 3/3, etc.

No bueno apparently. My assumption is that doing so, with RO as the water source, is that it just isn't enough for a few of the more calcium hungry plants. Hell, it may just barely be enough for normal/lesser conditions.

Thus we come to a fork. We can stay the course, or take the new path. I'll be taking the new one, and going to see if that helps with the next run. I think I will start out giving 2ml/gal for the first week, 4ml/gal for weeks 2-3, then bump to 6ml/gal at week 4, and 8ml/gal at week 6. Maybe even bump to 10ml/gal at week 8, which should be a week or two into flower, or at least just flipped.

 

[Pennywise]

Plants also use a lot of calcium in early veg. It’s essential for strong root growth.

 

[multiVortex]

Plants also use a lot of calcium in early veg. It’s essential for strong root growth.

Thanks P, that’s good to know. Further support for upping early stage doses as well. Cream Cookies is complaining a little, but Durban is really bitching about it. I’m probably not off by much, and on point for a normal grow. However add in RO and LED and that’s probably enough to need a double dose all the way through.

I can honestly say through all my space bucket grows before all this, I never saw a ca/mg issue. But that was a different time, different style, different challenges.


Maybe I’ll piece the old setup back together for a “nostalgia” grow at some point. I kinda went overboard on that rig a bit (lights from the top, plus one each or red, blue, and white rope lights wound all up through the stack. (Red/Blue independently turned on with the white.)

It was a fun setup, but obviously yields were not what I’m seeing now by a long shot. Maybe I make a few improvements and have a little fun. Nix the stack of buckets, make a small cabinet, and see what happens.