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- #21
Why are lower leaves yellowing and falling off? please help!
- Thread starter dogno
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Just wanted to point out that imo your veg nutes ratio is slightly off from what i consider optimal.
its P should be lower and its K should be higher.
I find that something more like 8-2-7 or maybe 5-1-5 or even 5-1-6 or so would be good.
Its up for debate (and it does depend on strain as well as other factors like the medium you grow in) but some say slightly higher N others say slightly higher K, but basically we can all agree that you dont need much Phosphorous in veg and infact it can lockout N.
For veg one very solid easy feed is 5-1-1 alaskan fish fert and some molasses (preferably unsulfered blackstrap), molasses is 0-0-3 NPK.
Using that along with possibly cal/mag or azomite, or seaweed (which is usually about 0.5-0-3) is a complete veg feeding.
Personally I also do add small bits of 0-5-0 fox farms Jamaican bat guano too. But i dont add it for the phos i add it for all the microbes they add in as pure microbe products like great white are retardedly expensive. I know fox farms makes some other dry mix stuff too that has a better ratio and also has the added microbes, i just have a lot of bags of the bat guano already cause i use it for flowering.
its P should be lower and its K should be higher.
I find that something more like 8-2-7 or maybe 5-1-5 or even 5-1-6 or so would be good.
Its up for debate (and it does depend on strain as well as other factors like the medium you grow in) but some say slightly higher N others say slightly higher K, but basically we can all agree that you dont need much Phosphorous in veg and infact it can lockout N.
For veg one very solid easy feed is 5-1-1 alaskan fish fert and some molasses (preferably unsulfered blackstrap), molasses is 0-0-3 NPK.
Using that along with possibly cal/mag or azomite, or seaweed (which is usually about 0.5-0-3) is a complete veg feeding.
Personally I also do add small bits of 0-5-0 fox farms Jamaican bat guano too. But i dont add it for the phos i add it for all the microbes they add in as pure microbe products like great white are retardedly expensive. I know fox farms makes some other dry mix stuff too that has a better ratio and also has the added microbes, i just have a lot of bags of the bat guano already cause i use it for flowering.
Yes, the N def would seem to be the likely explanation, but I just don't know why they'd be N starved at this stage - seems odd.
In very high heat, leaves can reach a state where they just can't properly respire. There's a constant flow of moisture through the leaves, and the right conditions of heat, humidity, radiant sunlight and air circulation can disrupt that process. It seems that you've taken precautions, so I'm not at all sure that's what it is. Jus' wanted to mention it - worth looking into.
There's no good reason you should have a N def is all. Dunno.
In very high heat, leaves can reach a state where they just can't properly respire. There's a constant flow of moisture through the leaves, and the right conditions of heat, humidity, radiant sunlight and air circulation can disrupt that process. It seems that you've taken precautions, so I'm not at all sure that's what it is. Jus' wanted to mention it - worth looking into.
There's no good reason you should have a N def is all. Dunno.
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- #24
hm, i can try to add alfalfa + molasses tea again, not tomorrow though i wanna see how she goes with more fish mix.
and should i leave the outside lights on? i just sprayed neem oil
and also, some neem went on the soil, is that bad? im growing organically so im afraid it might hurt the microbes
and uhm i just realised that fish mix is 5-3-4 not 6-2-4... so it could indeed be too much P... but i dont have access to anything else at the moment, is there something else i can do? i have also alfalfa, molasses, guano and bloom (but both are for flowering so no use).. i also have some liquid worm castings, could that work?
and should i leave the outside lights on? i just sprayed neem oil
and also, some neem went on the soil, is that bad? im growing organically so im afraid it might hurt the microbes
and uhm i just realised that fish mix is 5-3-4 not 6-2-4... so it could indeed be too much P... but i dont have access to anything else at the moment, is there something else i can do? i have also alfalfa, molasses, guano and bloom (but both are for flowering so no use).. i also have some liquid worm castings, could that work?
worm castings are semi nitro rich, add some worm castings for N and some molasses for K
Basically use 1/2 strength fish mix then use 3/4 strength worm casting and half strength molasses.
Ideally we want even more Nitrogen, but if thats what you got its what ya got. Compost is nitrogen rich, you got any compost?
As for the porch light just remember what i said. Leave it on to delay flowering but make sure you do it consistently every single day. Then when you are ready to flower never use the light again and avoid any light shining on them during the night.
Remember to quit using Neem in flower, itll mess up taste of buds. In veg its all good and dont worry about a bit going in soil.
Basically use 1/2 strength fish mix then use 3/4 strength worm casting and half strength molasses.
Ideally we want even more Nitrogen, but if thats what you got its what ya got. Compost is nitrogen rich, you got any compost?
As for the porch light just remember what i said. Leave it on to delay flowering but make sure you do it consistently every single day. Then when you are ready to flower never use the light again and avoid any light shining on them during the night.
Remember to quit using Neem in flower, itll mess up taste of buds. In veg its all good and dont worry about a bit going in soil.
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- #26
this morning i gave her some fish mix (1.5 ml/l), she seems stable but the leaves are still light green... that leaves(derp) me thinking that it might not be a nutrient problem? either way i'll see the next days how it goes and give some more stuff on wednesday (also worm castings extract).
i have another problem though,theres very little yellow spots all over the leaves (on every plant i have).
i tried neem but it seems to be expanding, so maybe its not pests? if its pests i might aswell just use pyrethrum and kill those motherfuckers, but maybe it's something else?
heres the pics, sorry for low quality :
i have another problem though,theres very little yellow spots all over the leaves (on every plant i have).
i tried neem but it seems to be expanding, so maybe its not pests? if its pests i might aswell just use pyrethrum and kill those motherfuckers, but maybe it's something else?
heres the pics, sorry for low quality :
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- #27
iono if you noticed but every single one of your pics is focused on the dirt not the leaf so we cannot see anything its just blur.
As for the color, its a plant not a car. You make adjustments and they slowly happen. If you go about it gun ho and give the plants a heavy dose and then a heavier dose until you make it show results right away all you will do is kill it.
As for the color, its a plant not a car. You make adjustments and they slowly happen. If you go about it gun ho and give the plants a heavy dose and then a heavier dose until you make it show results right away all you will do is kill it.
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- #29
hmm i noticed now that they are focused on the dirt, sorry for that lol. didnt realise that i had to stand a good distance away from the plant.
and yea i know well that i shouldnt go crazy on the plant, but i just wanted to know if those were pests, cause if they are, im not gonna let them on my plant any longer.
and yea i know well that i shouldnt go crazy on the plant, but i just wanted to know if those were pests, cause if they are, im not gonna let them on my plant any longer.
Well I don't wanna say yes its definitely bugs because for all i know that picture could be the Mona Lisa and its just super blurry... However yes it looks like bugs lol. Leaf miners and spidermites.
However didnt you say youve been spraying with neem? If so that could be old damage from days or weeks ago, remember the leaf damage will never repair ever.
Also just to check, when you spray the neem are you making sure to cover the plant top to bottom both the tops of leaves and bottom of leaves? Getting under the leaves when spraying for bugs like spidermites is way more important then the tops of the leaves.
Just go ahead and let plant dry out nicely, then when its time to water again hit it with only water. Then wait a few days (or however long it takes to dry out), and then you can feed plant again exactly the same ratios i told you yesterday.
If you find some pure compost feel free to toss in a couple cups of it on the top of the soil of all your plants also.
However didnt you say youve been spraying with neem? If so that could be old damage from days or weeks ago, remember the leaf damage will never repair ever.
Also just to check, when you spray the neem are you making sure to cover the plant top to bottom both the tops of leaves and bottom of leaves? Getting under the leaves when spraying for bugs like spidermites is way more important then the tops of the leaves.
Just go ahead and let plant dry out nicely, then when its time to water again hit it with only water. Then wait a few days (or however long it takes to dry out), and then you can feed plant again exactly the same ratios i told you yesterday.
If you find some pure compost feel free to toss in a couple cups of it on the top of the soil of all your plants also.
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- #31
i'll make new photos in a few, thanks jimmy.
and yes i've been spraying with neem but it seems that the leaf damage is spreading, maybe its just a feeling but idk(i've also read that neem doesnt exactly kill pests, it makes them weaker and unable to reproduce, that might not be enough..).
i sprayed some nettle yesterday too, i read that it also has some nutrients i think? so should do only good.
and yes i am trying to spray under the leaves also, not very easy sometimes with the shitty sprayer i have though
.
and about the waterings and the feedings, i have to water the big plant every day, i give her 3 liters every day and at the evening she's dry, she drinks a lot! and before i wrapped the black pot(why are all the pots black? its literally the worst color for heat -.-) in anti-heat paper she was drinking even more
and yes i've been spraying with neem but it seems that the leaf damage is spreading, maybe its just a feeling but idk(i've also read that neem doesnt exactly kill pests, it makes them weaker and unable to reproduce, that might not be enough..).
i sprayed some nettle yesterday too, i read that it also has some nutrients i think? so should do only good.
and yes i am trying to spray under the leaves also, not very easy sometimes with the shitty sprayer i have though
.and about the waterings and the feedings, i have to water the big plant every day, i give her 3 liters every day and at the evening she's dry, she drinks a lot! and before i wrapped the black pot(why are all the pots black? its literally the worst color for heat -.-) in anti-heat paper she was drinking even more
neem when used correctly kills all bugs, good and bad ones. Whoever wrote that is does not didnt know what they were talking about. Neem is also a anti fungal, which is nice for keeping powdery mildew in check.
Never heard of making stinging nettle juice, so can't comment on it.
Yeah black pots do get hot, but they keep light out. So gotta take good with the bad.
Are you soaking the entire plant until it has a ton of run off? If not just make sure you are. Water with nutes every 3 or 4 days if you are watering thatmuch.
Never heard of making stinging nettle juice, so can't comment on it.
Yeah black pots do get hot, but they keep light out. So gotta take good with the bad.
Are you soaking the entire plant until it has a ton of run off? If not just make sure you are. Water with nutes every 3 or 4 days if you are watering thatmuch.
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- #33
well since im growing in organics its not very good to have lots of runoff is it? besides in the past some epsom salts went in the soil from foliar feed(that might actually be why the plant has an N deficiency, but then again the other plants dont so idk) so some microbes are already dead, i dont wanna flush the rest away!
and besides, with this heat, no matter how much water i put, its gonna dry out very fast anyway
and besides, with this heat, no matter how much water i put, its gonna dry out very fast anyway
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- #34
Woah woah woah, hold the phone. Are you saying you basically never water till you have runoff?
If that is the case we probably have found the root of much of this nitrogen and bug problem.
You should basically ALWAYS water till run off. Also I got a feeling that not only are you not watering enough when you water, but you are also over watering slightly.
I grow in pots that are near the same size as I use 15-20 gallon pots. I use a ton of perlite in my soil (meaning it dries faster) and to top it off its over 100 degrees here with very low single digit humidity (soil dries faster the lower the humidity). Yet I still only water every other day in the potted plants, some only 1 time every 3 days. When I water I SOAK the entire medium, then a few mins later I often come back and add another gallon or 2 of water to make sure there are no dry pockets inside.
If you arnt watering till runoff and on occasion watering to flush (meaning you get a LOT of water to go out). Then you will have salt buildup, and you will gain uneven levels of nutes. For instance if you use a 6-2-4 food and the plant eats all the nitrogen, eats all the potassium, yet only uses half the Phosphorous then you slowly start to build up P because it isnt getting all used. Eventually the P levels will build up so high in the soil you cause N lockout.
Its possible your plant uses all the P as different strains eat different NPK levels in veg or in flower. However most dont use that much P in veg.
I want you to do this. Tonight you will flush. I want you to water with nearly double the amount of water that a pot is. So if those are infact 15 gallon pots, put minimum 20 gallons water through them, if not 25 or 30 gallons. Then afterwards I want you to mix up about 2 gallons worth of slightly strong nuted water for each plant and feed it to them. Now tomorrow you are not going to water at all. Then the day after tomorrow I want you to keep an eye on the plants. Watch for them to droop (from lack of water), I got a feeling they will be fine, however if they do begin to drastically droop before it becomes night then go ahead and load the up with water till you get a small bit of runoff. However if they never droop go ahead and just water on the night the day after tomorrow.
Weed likes drying out in soil, it hates being wet all the time. It does not mind getting soaked here and there (like a heavy rain), but it hates constant wetness. You will have many problems with constantly wet plants.
If that is the case we probably have found the root of much of this nitrogen and bug problem.
You should basically ALWAYS water till run off. Also I got a feeling that not only are you not watering enough when you water, but you are also over watering slightly.
I grow in pots that are near the same size as I use 15-20 gallon pots. I use a ton of perlite in my soil (meaning it dries faster) and to top it off its over 100 degrees here with very low single digit humidity (soil dries faster the lower the humidity). Yet I still only water every other day in the potted plants, some only 1 time every 3 days. When I water I SOAK the entire medium, then a few mins later I often come back and add another gallon or 2 of water to make sure there are no dry pockets inside.
If you arnt watering till runoff and on occasion watering to flush (meaning you get a LOT of water to go out). Then you will have salt buildup, and you will gain uneven levels of nutes. For instance if you use a 6-2-4 food and the plant eats all the nitrogen, eats all the potassium, yet only uses half the Phosphorous then you slowly start to build up P because it isnt getting all used. Eventually the P levels will build up so high in the soil you cause N lockout.
Its possible your plant uses all the P as different strains eat different NPK levels in veg or in flower. However most dont use that much P in veg.
I want you to do this. Tonight you will flush. I want you to water with nearly double the amount of water that a pot is. So if those are infact 15 gallon pots, put minimum 20 gallons water through them, if not 25 or 30 gallons. Then afterwards I want you to mix up about 2 gallons worth of slightly strong nuted water for each plant and feed it to them. Now tomorrow you are not going to water at all. Then the day after tomorrow I want you to keep an eye on the plants. Watch for them to droop (from lack of water), I got a feeling they will be fine, however if they do begin to drastically droop before it becomes night then go ahead and load the up with water till you get a small bit of runoff. However if they never droop go ahead and just water on the night the day after tomorrow.
Weed likes drying out in soil, it hates being wet all the time. It does not mind getting soaked here and there (like a heavy rain), but it hates constant wetness. You will have many problems with constantly wet plants.
Also keep in mind some droop will be normal on lower parts of the plant, especially between 1-5pm which is the hottest part of the day. Easy way to test soil is stick your finger 3 or 4 inches down if its not bone dry your fine. If it is bone dry you may need to water. The other real simple one of the pot weight test. A 15 gallon pot when fully water (this depends a lot on the medium too), will be anywhere from 30-75 pounds, the pot if completely dry (dont let it go THIS far) could be as light as 15-30 pounds maybe even less.
Or a soil stick tester also works for testing dryness of soil as well as PH.
Or a soil stick tester also works for testing dryness of soil as well as PH.
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- #37
well the problem is that the big plant dries completely in less than 1 day (and i mean completely dry, her pot weighs like half of the other plants), i dont think she can hold for 2 days without water... and i didnt know salt buildup also happened in organics.
and won't a huge flush just take off all the bacteria? my pot is 45 liters, i would have to flush with 90 liters(thats like 60 bottles of water lol)?! not to mention the chlorine in the water..
and i water in the morning, tomorrow morning i can do what you said but it seems a little drastic to me? especially in organics?
and won't a huge flush just take off all the bacteria? my pot is 45 liters, i would have to flush with 90 liters(thats like 60 bottles of water lol)?! not to mention the chlorine in the water..
and i water in the morning, tomorrow morning i can do what you said but it seems a little drastic to me? especially in organics?
No that is not how the microbes work, there will be plenty there after a flush, certainly more eventually then just trying to have them live in a saline environment. There is salt in everything
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- #39
Yeah, that makes more sense - high heat, rapid respiration, soil moisture issues. I'm not sure how a 45 liter pot dries out in one day - that's not normal.
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