Yet another LED light question!

[GuinGuy]

I'm growing in a 4x4 tent and I bought a 2000w double chip LED. Did I overdo it to the point where I could damage my plants? If it's going to help, perfect, if it's not going to harm but offer no extra production, then oh well I'll deal with it, but if it is going to do harm I need to get it out of there. It has fans/heat syncs and I will be venting the tent with a fan as well.

The tent is 6.5 feet tall so I can always keep it 18-24" off at any point.

 

[HayStack]

It won't really be 2000 watts of light. Probably more like 400 to 500. But it will work great.

 

[Mr. Krip]

I'm growing in a 4x4 tent and I bought a 2000w double chip LED. Did I overdo it to the point where I could damage my plants? If it's going to help, perfect, if it's not going to harm but offer no extra production, then oh well I'll deal with it, but if it is going to do harm I need to get it out of there. It has fans/heat syncs and I will be venting the tent with a fan as well.

The tent is 6.5 feet tall so I can always keep it 18-24" off at any point.

You should be fine, Brother! If you put the make/model of the light, I'll check the spec's for you, but one thing you'll find out quick is that a 2kw LED is going to run NOWHERE near that 2kw. The LED manufacturers will put 200 10w chips in the light and advertise it as 2kw, but, they NEVER drive their lights to full capacity, so it will only draw something like 800 actual watts from the wall. This is to extend the life of the components and reduce cooling requirements.

You likely have the equivalent of about a 800w or 1kw HPS, which will do well in your 4'x4' space!

 

[Ennui]

I'm growing in a 4x4 tent and I bought a 2000w double chip LED. Did I overdo it to the point where I could damage my plants? If it's going to help, perfect, if it's not going to harm but offer no extra production, then oh well I'll deal with it, but if it is going to do harm I need to get it out of there. It has fans/heat syncs and I will be venting the tent with a fan as well.

The tent is 6.5 feet tall so I can always keep it 18-24" off at any point.

What's the PAR value and heat factor at the closest part of the plant to the source and does that PAR value cover the greatest mass of the plant? If you hold your hand under the light for a few tick at that distance how warm does it feel? Could you take it for 18 hours straight? These are the factors to plug into the equation.

 

[GuinGuy]

It won't really be 2000 watts of light. Probably more like 400 to 500. But it will work great.

Sorry ya, I know, I forgot to mention it consumes 390w. It seems I'm ok, I just wanted someone with some better experience to be sure. Here are the specs:

Specifications:
- Dimension: 20.66x8.46x2.36 inches
- Replaces a 1400 watt HPS/MH
- Item Weight: 10.36 pounds
- Full spectrum for all stages of plant growth
- Core Coverage Area: 7.8ft x 7.5ft at 24" Height
- LEDs Angle: 120°
- 200pcs Dual-Chip 10W Bridgelux/Epileds LEDs
- Avg. Power Draw: 390W
- Input Voltage: AC85-265V
- Working Temp: -68~104℉
- Frequency: 50-60Hz

 

[GuinGuy]

You should be fine, Brother! If you put the make/model of the light, I'll check the spec's for you, but one thing you'll find out quick is that a 2kw LED is going to run NOWHERE near that 2kw. The LED manufacturers will put 200 10w chips in the light and advertise it as 2kw, but, they NEVER drive their lights to full capacity, so it will only draw something like 800 actual watts from the wall. This is to extend the life of the components and reduce cooling requirements.

You likely have the equivalent of about a 800w or 1kw HPS, which will do well in your 4'x4' space!

Ya sorry, I knew it consumed 390w, I forgot to mention. Here are the specs, thanks for taking a look:

Specifications:
- Dimension: 20.66x8.46x2.36 inches
- Replaces a 1400 watt HPS/MH
- Item Weight: 10.36 pounds
- Full spectrum for all stages of plant growth
- Core Coverage Area: 7.8ft x 7.5ft at 24" Height
- LEDs Angle: 120°
- 200pcs Dual-Chip 10W Bridgelux/Epileds LEDs
- Avg. Power Draw: 390W
- Input Voltage: AC85-265V
- Working Temp: -68~104℉
- Frequency: 50-60Hz

 

[Mr. Krip]

Sorry ya, I know, I forgot to mention it consumes 390w. It seems I'm ok, I just wanted someone with some better experience to be sure. Here are the specs:

Specifications:
- Dimension: 20.66x8.46x2.36 inches
- Replaces a 1400 watt HPS/MH
- Item Weight: 10.36 pounds
- Full spectrum for all stages of plant growth
- Core Coverage Area: 7.8ft x 7.5ft at 24" Height
- LEDs Angle: 120°
- 200pcs Dual-Chip 10W Bridgelux/Epileds LEDs
- Avg. Power Draw: 390W
- Input Voltage: AC85-265V
- Working Temp: -68~104℉
- Frequency: 50-60Hz

Wow! That's pretty low considering they advertise it at 2kw, huh?

They say it replaces a 1400 watt HPS/MH, but it should be (1) 400w HPS/MH!

You could run two of those in your space with no issues!

 

[GuinGuy]

Wow! That's pretty low considering they advertise it at 2kw, huh?

They say it replaces a 1400 watt HPS/MH, but it should be (1) 400w HPS/MH!

You could run two of those in your space with no issues!

Sneaky bastards. Should be good enough for now. I'll probably add someday if I feel like I can get more. In Canada we'll be allowed to grow 4 plants starting Wednesday. So much info to take in, trying to be prepared. Thanks for the help.

 

[Mars Hydro]

Hey GuinGuy, so seems question get answered now. Yes, for the traditional LEDs it should be wattage for wattage replacement. So the 2000w led should only replace your 400w HPS, and you might need another around 400w LED lights to get great result.
And congrats on the Legalization in advance, we also hold lights& tents promotion to celebrate with you guys, you may check out if you are interested.

 

[Mr. Krip]

FYI...I do HIGHLY recommend the Mars lights from @SmokeSara ! I personally have (2) Mars Reflector 144's in my 4' x4' tent!

 

[PurpleGunRack]

Not at all too much light, actually it's not nearly enough to fully saturate 4x4!

Sorry to break it to ya, but these kind of lights are basically scams and you're better off growing with HID...

It will work, but it's not great for flowering more than a 3x3 area, and will only saturate 2x2 with enough light to optimally flower cannabis.

 

[Ennui]

Not at all too much light, actually it's not nearly enough to fully saturate 4x4!

Sorry to break it to ya, but these kind of lights are basically scams and you're better off growing with HID...

It will work, but it's not great for flowering more than a 3x3 area, and will only saturate 2x2 with enough light to optimally flower cannabis.

Have to disagree, don't take it personally. I'm having no issues my first grow and I've got nothing special. His light is more than enough if he uses it correctly. Using it correctly involves training plants to be as close to one level with all the bud sites to keep the height to a minimum. The furthest penetration you require is inches, not feet. You can prune fan leaves so no sites are in shade, ever. And doing so tightens internodal spacing, creating more inner structure to produce thicker buds. You can train a plant to grow sideways and get just as long as it would be tall and be ready right when it matures to flip same as if it were standing up. You have more headroom than you'd ever need and clear sailing to the Mylar to scavenge even more PPFD than if a plant fills the tent. Every bud will be tight, if not the same size, excepting mains, of course. Look at commercial grow rooms and look at the tallest plant. If anyone was conscious of inputs as opposed to outputs per unit it's going to be the guy with the potential to dribble the most dollars away through sub-optimal results.

There are differences, don't get me wrong. But the guy on a budget who may not be able to afford a Cadillac can get by with a Corolla and get excellent results. The key is understanding.

Think about it, people with serious things like health issues who may need any savings for meds or whatever are reading all over the place these are no good when they are decent. Think further, maybe the decision not to try to do it themselves was based on opinion rather than fact? What if just the growing of a plant took their head out of the present and did more than meds would? What if it just made things a little more pleasant.

Again, don't take it personally, this whole thing is still in it's infancy, a lot like the Wild West. There's more dis-info than info floating around that it's a good thing the plant is tough or I'm not sure a lot of people would be as happy as they are. If you seriously want to see the results, check out the journal and where I am. Remember what you thought then come back at harvest. Yeah, I'm putting the crow before the rooster, but I have confidence in my ability to rapidly get up to speed with anything that interests me. This has my undivided attention. I've done my homework and I see where it all goes wrong for the consumer and this is a good example. I'm not looking for anything but helping people who possibly have it a lot worse than me.

I plan on my own version of myth-busting as far as this goes. Again, if you can afford a Caddy, by all means, have at it. But it's not rocket science to get better than average results out of most everything out there. Also, later on, if budget allows some supplemental lighting would be an option.

I can't stress enough how scrambled all the info is out there, not only re; this, but soil instructions being mixed with soilless mixed with hydro.

Only need a few things to grow a nice plant in soil, or anything. Correct PPFD, correct Ph water, a pot, some commercial soil, pre-amended with nutes a seed, sharp lopping instrument, and some Bonsai wire for tie downs. This will take you through veg. Late veg, give a 1/4 dose of bloom nutes and repeat only when the plant shows it's hungry. Plant doesn't care where it comes from, just that it gets it.

Spending more doesn't always translate, so... Enough myth-busting for one day.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Have to disagree, don't take it personally. I'm having no issues my first grow and I've got nothing special. His light is more than enough if he uses it correctly. Using it correctly involves training plants to be as close to one level with all the bud sites to keep the height to a minimum. The furthest penetration you require is inches, not feet. You can prune fan leaves so no sites are in shade, ever. And doing so tightens internodal spacing, creating more inner structure to produce thicker buds. You can train a plant to grow sideways and get just as long as it would be tall and be ready right when it matures to flip same as if it were standing up. You have more headroom than you'd ever need and clear sailing to the Mylar to scavenge even more PPFD than if a plant fills the tent. Every bud will be tight, if not the same size, excepting mains, of course. Look at commercial grow rooms and look at the tallest plant. If anyone was conscious of inputs as opposed to outputs per unit it's going to be the guy with the potential to dribble the most dollars away through sub-optimal results.

There are differences, don't get me wrong. But the guy on a budget who may not be able to afford a Cadillac can get by with a Corolla and get excellent results. The key is understanding.

Think about it, people with serious things like health issues who may need any savings for meds or whatever are reading all over the place these are no good when they are decent. Think further, maybe the decision not to try to do it themselves was based on opinion rather than fact? What if just the growing of a plant took their head out of the present and did more than meds would? What if it just made things a little more pleasant.

Again, don't take it personally, this whole thing is still in it's infancy, a lot like the Wild West. There's more dis-info than info floating around that it's a good thing the plant is tough or I'm not sure a lot of people would be as happy as they are. If you seriously want to see the results, check out the journal and where I am. Remember what you thought then come back at harvest. Yeah, I'm putting the crow before the rooster, but I have confidence in my ability to rapidly get up to speed with anything that interests me. This has my undivided attention. I've done my homework and I see where it all goes wrong for the consumer and this is a good example. I'm not looking for anything but helping people who possibly have it a lot worse than me.

I plan on my own version of myth-busting as far as this goes. Again, if you can afford a Caddy, by all means, have at it. But it's not rocket science to get better than average results out of most everything out there. Also, later on, if budget allows some supplemental lighting would be an option.

I can't stress enough how scrambled all the info is out there, not only re; this, but soil instructions being mixed with soilless mixed with hydro.

Only need a few things to grow a nice plant in soil, or anything. Correct PPFD, correct Ph water, a pot, some commercial soil, pre-amended with nutes a seed, sharp lopping instrument, and some Bonsai wire for tie downs. This will take you through veg. Late veg, give a 1/4 dose of bloom nutes and repeat only when the plant shows it's hungry. Plant doesn't care where it comes from, just that it gets it.

Spending more doesn't always translate, so... Enough myth-busting for one day.

I have to agree with @PurpleGunRack. You're correct he can grow some quality meds with that light, but it's really not enough to cover a 4'x4' footprint. It's really suited to a 2'x2', if you're going to use it to flower. For that light to cover a 4'x4' footprint, it would need to be too high from the plants to be very effective (damn inverse square law! ). In a 4'x4' you probably want a minimum of 600w and 800w would be even better! I'd try for a minimum of 35w per square foot. In other words, you won't get the PPFD you're looking for across a 4'x4' with only 390w.

 

[Ennui]

I have to agree with @PurpleGunRack. You're correct he can grow some quality meds with that light, but it's really not enough to cover a 4'x4' footprint. It's really suited to a 2'x2', if you're going to use it to flower. For that light to cover a 4'x4' footprint, it would need to be too high from the plants to be very effective (damn inverse square law! ). In a 4'x4' you probably want a minimum of 600w and 800w would be even better! I'd try for a minimum of 35w per square foot. In other words, you won't get the PPFD you're looking for across a 4'x4' with only 390w.

Only if you fill the 4x4. With training and pruning you can get the results in a smaller footprint. And to be fair I did say supplemental could be added later if initial budget were a concern. Don't stop keeping me on my toes!

 

[Ennui]

Talk about medicine, seeing the main colas get the most of everything, doesn't it stand to reason they're the best for meds? The most consistent in strength, contain the most whatever. In order to get the 8 main on my one plant you'd have to plant 4 at the minimum. Next time I'm splitting it one or two more times, for a total of 16 or 32 mains and that will not fill the 4x4 doing the visual extrapolation. How many plants are we up to the regular way?

 

[Mr. Krip]

Talk about medicine, seeing the main colas get the most of everything, doesn't it stand to reason they're the best for meds? The most consistent in strength, contain the most whatever. In order to get the 8 main on my one plant you'd have to plant 4 at the minimum. Next time I'm splitting it one or two more times, for a total of 16 or 32 mains and that will not fill the 4x4 doing the visual extrapolation. How many plants are we up to the regular way?

Yeah, but any way you slice it, you get more meds per harvest out of any space if you have enough light, and can train, to fill that space. The mainlining is cool, but it takes forever to train the plant like that. In the same time it takes to train to get 32 mains, I could probably could get 3 harvests out of a 50-plant single-cola SOG grow in a 4'x4', assuming I had enough light to cover it.

It's not that one is any better than another, it's all trade-off's we make.

But, since the OP has a 4'x4' the best way to maximize the space would be with an additional light and it really wouldn't cost that much to add one, especially if you consider used, older model clearances, and the potential for winning some contests/giveaways right here on .

Even paying a couple hundred $$$'s, I would think it would easily be made up for just from the additional meds available on the first harvest. Plus, I personally never like running a tent that isn't full!

All that being said, he can certainly grow in a smaller footprint and I'm sure that light will do just fine!

 

[PurpleGunRack]

His light is more than enough if he uses it correctly

It's about the amount of photons hitting a given surface, and with this lamp in a 4x4 tent you get under 150 PPFD at the edges at canopy level, and you need +800 PPFD for OPTIMAL flowering of cannabis, so ScroG won't get you there anyway.

There's a huge difference between working lighting and optimal lighting!

Look at commercial grow rooms and look at the tallest plant. If anyone was conscious of inputs as opposed to outputs per unit it's going to be the guy with the potential to dribble the most dollars away through sub-optimal results

Many different types of commercial grow rooms out there with different agendas.
Just because a guy runs a business, doesn't mean he actually knows anything about running a business

The *ONLY* commercially worthwhile technique is SoG, it's simply the highest gram per m2 per day output of any growing method, but like any other method, it still needs proper light saturation to produce high quality herb.

You can grow about the same yield with 600w HPS and 1000w HPS in a 4x4, but the cannabinoid content is higher with the latter.

But the guy on a budget who may not be able to afford a Cadillac can get by with a Corolla and get excellent results

Yes, but he bought a Lada marketed as a Golf... If it's too good to be true, it probably is... but that's hard to know when you're new to growing and don't yet know anything about the many empty LED promises out there.

The guy on a budget is better off with HID any day, cheaper up front and much more reliable in the long run

Proper LED lighting is expensive, even if you build your own, but the investment will pay for it self pretty quickly.

Mono diodes are dead, they just don't know it yet

 

[Mr. Krip]

Talk about medicine, seeing the main colas get the most of everything, doesn't it stand to reason they're the best for meds? The most consistent in strength, contain the most whatever. In order to get the 8 main on my one plant you'd have to plant 4 at the minimum. Next time I'm splitting it one or two more times, for a total of 16 or 32 mains and that will not fill the 4x4 doing the visual extrapolation. How many plants are we up to the regular way?

BTW...checkout "Uncle Ben's Topping" which I do to almost all of my plants. If you top the plant between the 2nd and 3rd nodes, you get 4 primary colas.

This one went right into flower just after a UBT and you can see the four colas:

DSCN4330.JPG

• Mr. Krip
• Oct 10, 2018

 

[Ennui]

How can I put it. No matter what the source or spread or coverage, doesn't matter what you have or how powerful if it doesn't cover the greatest 3D mass of the plant and that requires penetration, not only to the growth tips, but the structure below. How developed the tiny nodes are below the main determines the structure or scaffolding that produces thick buds during flower. If they're shaded just a little from above they under-develop unless they veg longer and then will stretch seeking light. Besides, for a natural plant you'd be better off with the light sources on the sides, you'd get better penetration than from just above. You're right in everything you say, but I'm saying the real life data is skewed because most don't get ideal PPFD where it's needed. IOW, the method the data was obtained is faulty. There are no controls, mostly theory floating around. Time will tell, I stand to be corrected, but common sense has seen me through more than most in this life, I sticking with it until proven it's pretzel logic. Same as a saw's only as good as the carpenter, so is a light to a grower. Anyways, it's late.

 

[Ennui]

BTW...checkout "Uncle Ben's Topping" which I do to almost all of my plants. If you top the plant between the 2nd and 3rd nodes, you get 4 primary colas.

This one went right into flower just after a UBT and you can see the four colas:

DSCN4330.JPG

• Mr. Krip
• Oct 10, 2018

Sorry, you get two mains and two subdominants that are closer to the trough than others. The terminus is still two branches. Good technique in that it takes two lower nodes which always produce as close to the main's size/quality as they're the first hogs at the trough, so to speak.