Five's Second Attempt - Coco/Perlite - CFL/LED - NL - 2016

[Camo420Grow]

Nice little seedlings 5! Aslong as you have air movement you will be fine !

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Nice little seedlings 5! Aslong as you have air movement you will be fine !

Thanks mate, I'm really stoked to see how well they're doing

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Back for another update!

The girls are looking beautiful! I'm soo happy with them this time, everything seems to working out nicely. Being that it's the peak of summer here, we have had most days above 30 celcius and the box has been around 35. So the girls are showing a little bit of heat stress, but I have two fans on them circulating air and taking as much heat away as possible. Isn't much I can do without air con unfortunately, but I think the silica is helping. They seem to be coping pretty well.

Feeds are still about every 2-4 days depending on the weather and today they were given 613ppm of the week 3 ratio. I've been advised previously not to stray above 600ppm in vege and to be honest the only reason I did was because I didn't check my notes before doing it lol. However, the previous feed was 625ppm 4 days ago and they don't seem to be showing any signs of nutrient burn. The run off has been measuring very low when giving plain RO between feedings so I believe they are lapping it up.
I am however reluctant to go above 650 due to that previous advice.
Would love some input on this from everyone though. Should I keep raising it week by week if it isn't harming them or should I keep it around 600 for the moment?
We are now at the end of week 3

I was also thinking of starting to LST as they are getting a decent size now. Have read a lot about this but was hoping for some input from you guys as to whether or not you think I should start now, wait until later or skip altogether and just top like last time? Topping did give very good results last time and due to the limited space I'm thinking it would be a good idea again. However I was thinking of doing some LST first and topping once they are a little bigger.
Please give you opinions on this as I'm really unsure what I should do.

Anyways, here are some pics.


All together looking happy

#1 - Looking gorgeous after coming close to death when her shell broke one of her cotelydons. You wouldn't know it if I didn't tell you though.

#2 - Looking nice and healthy

#3 - Tallest of all, possibly stretched a bit more than the others. Not sure why though.

 

[Skybound]

Your flock is looking very nice 5! In deciding whether to push the ppm bar, keep in mind that nute burns aren't going to be expressed until after the damage is done, so if you continue to bump it up, be very cautious. Keep in mind that it is much easier to treat a problem by not getting into trouble in the first place. Also, topping vs LST? Topping always wins in my book. LST is just tying off a branch as needed, but IMO will never be a first choice technique to effect any measurable result. Topping on the other hand involves actually influencing the plant to grow exactly how I say.

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Your flock is looking very nice 5! In deciding whether to push the ppm bar, keep in mind that nute burns aren't going to be expressed until after the damage is done, so if you continue to bump it up, be very cautious. Keep in mind that it is much easier to treat a problem by not getting into trouble in the first place. Also, topping vs LST? Topping always wins in my book. LST is just tying off a branch as needed, but IMO will never be a first choice technique to effect any measurable result. Topping on the other hand involves actually influencing the plant to grow exactly how I say.

Thanks mate, that's great to hear.
Very good point on the nutes though. I think I will leave it at 600 for now and see how it goes.
What is be the best way to know if I should make it higher?

Another good point about topping vs LST. Last time I did both and got decent results. Just thought if I maybe started to LST a little earlier I could have more control over height and maybe get a little more of a spiral or 'S' shape to the main stem.


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[Skybound]

How much the plant can take in the media is going to boil down to your experience with your setup and knowledge of your strain. Obviously deficiency is not enough and toxicity is too much which makes right in the middle the perfect place to be. I don't know enough about your strain and less about your media to specifically advise on when or how much to push the bar. I just wanted to acknowledge that you may already be doing so. In rock wool, for me, plants that size would receive roughly 400 ppm. Perhaps giving the plain water feedings between is allowing you the ability to push the envelope?

A spiral is definitely doable. Good thinking outside the box man! A topping will be needed to create the initial split, then tie off the 2 new terminal shoots thereafter.

 

[Beleaf]

Pulling up a seat here. I'm about a week ahead of you on three NL from Nirvana. They look very similar. Anyways looking great!!


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[FiveToMidnight]

How much the plant can take in the media is going to boil down to your experience with your setup and knowledge of your strain. Obviously deficiency is not enough and toxicity is too much which makes right in the middle the perfect place to be. I don't know enough about your strain and less about your media to specifically advise on when or how much to push the bar. I just wanted to acknowledge that you may already be doing so. In rock wool, for me, plants that size would receive roughly 400 ppm. Perhaps giving the plain water feedings between is allowing you the ability to push the envelope?

A spiral is definitely doable. Good thinking outside the box man! A topping will be needed to create the initial split, then tie off the 2 new terminal shoots thereafter.

I think you may be right about the plain water allowing to go a little higher. After yesterdays feed I gave them a little plain RO today and run off was only 120ppm. They're hungry little things!

I'll start trying to spiral them now and see how I go. will post pics of what I do

Pulling up a seat here. I'm about a week ahead of you on three NL from Nirvana. They look very similar. Anyways looking great!!


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Thanks mate, glad to have you along for the ride!

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[FiveToMidnight]

Noticed something I had not seen before. It appears that #3 has its two very bottom leaves (the first proper leaves that grew, not the cotyledons) are turning yellow.
Anyone able to suggest why this may be?
It doesn't appear to be happening to the other two, only #3 and it looks like it has been sucking the food from them from the research I have done.
Being they are having regular feeds I'm not sure why this would be.

Here are some pics but I'm thinking of not giving plain water between the next two feeds and using nutes instead to see if that may help. I'm thinking the low ppm in run off after the plain RO may be leaving them a bit hungry.
What do you guys think??

Also, did some LST today and thought I would show what I have done. The stems are already getting quite stiff and strong so I didn't bend them too much at first, will do bit by bit as the days go by.
Any comments are welcome, always love to hear all your thoughts!!

#1

#2

#3

 

[Beleaf]

If it were mine I would watch new growth as an indicator of a new problem. Those leaves are gone.. They will fall off eventually. Again, if it was mine...


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[FiveToMidnight]

If it were mine I would watch new growth as an indicator of a new problem. Those leaves are gone.. They will fall off eventually. Again, if it was mine...


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Yeah that's a good point. All other leaves look green and healthy from what I can see so I think all is good. Just wanted to see what you guys thoughts.
Thanks for the comment

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[FiveToMidnight]

So it looks like I should have transplanted these girls a week if not 2 ago, they were in great need of a bigger home!
I have been getting some yellowing of the bottom leaves and after trying to fix with more nitrogen and still seeing problems, I did some more research and found some pictures that looked exactly like my girls.
They are now in 1.3L plastic pots.
When I removed them from the plastic cups I found a large root ball winding its way around the very bottom. Being that it looked like the start of them being root bound, I cut the bottom off about 1cm up. I have also been previously advised to do this when transplanting by OldMedUser who does this every time with great results. So looking forward to some nice new growth.

Overall they look pretty healthy and happy but I will let you guys judge.

Here is a copy of the history I have been keeping. This is just the last 7 days but thought some might be interested so see the routine. Any comments would be highly appreciated too.

21/2 - Feed week 3 ratio at 575ppm 5.4ph. Run off 560ppm 6.0 average
22/2 - (Midday) RO water at 5.7ph with no run off.
22/2 - (Evening) Feed week 3 ratio at 575ppm 5.6ph. Run off 560ppm 6.0 average
23/2 - Feed week 3 ratio at 475ppm 5.6ph. Run off 500ppm 6.1ph average
24/2 - Feed week 3 modified at 500ppm 5.7pm. Run off 525ppm 6.2ph average
25/2 - RO water at 5.5ph. Run off 60ppm 5.9 average
26/2 - Feed week 3 full at 675ppm 5.7ph. Run off 650ppm 6.1ph average.
27/2 - Transplant from 200ml cups to 1.3L pots. Feed week 3 modified at 580ppm 5.5ph. Run off 540ppm 5.9ph average.



And here are some pics for your viewing pleasure

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Anyone happen to have any advice as to when to try topping these girls and how much to cut them back to? They look to me like they're about ready but would love some advice

 

[Obi Wan]

Your plants look nice. I believe they are old enough to top now. If they were just transplanted I might wait a few days for them to further acclimate.

I just topped mine this afternoon. I'll get a couple pics posted to my journal so you can see how much I took off the top (not much).

 

[Skybound]

It's safe to top anytime after there is enough foliage on the plant to sustain the loss, yet still have enough to continue photosynthesis. It is often advised for young plants to have at least 5 nodes, but I feel 4 will also work well. As far as how much to take off is all completely up to you. If you top it as low as possible, your finished plant will have a lower stature, but you may be short some side branching. Keep the side branches and risk your plant being a little taller than hoped for. You already know I'm a proponent of frequent topping sessions to produce more flowering tops, but I was taught that about 1 session per week is safe if most other factors are ideal.

Heed ObiWan's advise and wait a few extra days for the transplant shock to abate.

 

[McCdive]

Another perfect post by Sky. Some strains really thrive with topping.

Thanks Skybound.

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Your plants look nice. I believe they are old enough to top now. If they were just transplanted I might wait a few days for them to further acclimate.

I just topped mine this afternoon. I'll get a couple pics posted to my journal so you can see how much I took off the top (not much).

Thanks for the advice! I'll definitely wait a few days to allow them to settle in to their new homes but appreciate the tips.

It's safe to top anytime after there is enough foliage on the plant to sustain the loss, yet still have enough to continue photosynthesis. It is often advised for young plants to have at least 5 nodes, but I feel 4 will also work well. As far as how much to take off is all completely up to you. If you top it as low as possible, your finished plant will have a lower stature, but you may be short some side branching. Keep the side branches and risk your plant being a little taller than hoped for. You already know I'm a proponent of frequent topping sessions to produce more flowering tops, but I was taught that about 1 session per week is safe if most other factors are ideal.

Heed ObiWan's advise and wait a few extra days for the transplant shock to abate.

Thanks Skybound.
If these were your girls, how much would you top them?
Same question for anyone else too, I'm a bit unsure of this topic

 

[Skybound]

I'd top them down to the point where they have 2 sets of side branches below the cut point. If you don't yet have 2 sets of side branches, you can still take the newest shoot off the top as your plants look very short and bushy already. I also see a lot of good foliage on your girls so you have a lot of leeway. Just do it however you want really.

 

[FiveToMidnight]

I'd top them down to the point where they have 2 sets of side branches below the cut point. If you don't yet have 2 sets of side branches, you can still take the newest shoot off the top as your plants look very short and bushy already. I also see a lot of good foliage on your girls so you have a lot of leeway. Just do it however you want really.

Ok cool, thanks again
I will give them a few days as previously advised and see how the look before I give them a chop.
They are quite short and bushy, plus I have bent them into a bit of a sideways 'S' shape so they're shorter than they should be.

I'm wondering if by topping two of them and maybe just using some LST on another I may be able to fit all three this time? Or would I have more chance if I topped all three?
I'm prepared to sacrifice one if they don't all fit, I only did three in case one didn't make it like last time. So its ok if it wont work, but would be great to not have to deliberately kill one if I don't have to and not sacrifice yield instead

 

[Obi Wan]

My gut says if height is a concern top them all. Create as short and level of a canopy as you can.