Increasing yield with defoliation indoors: What's it mean? How to do it?

[Smokemupm8]

SORRY BASS
Yeah I have mentioned it in my journals, I guess I failed to add that here! Yeah, as you can see now MY PREDICAMENT!! Ihave wanted to grow a couple in there. but theyd need to be smaller as you said. So this is why I just go for a single girl as the depth wont allow me to have a perfect 4.5Sq base area, I was just describing more the height and width - not the depth. I COULD double the depth, but its a hassle, so this is why Ive had to modify my LST technique and lighting,trimming to allow for further penetration.
Yes, As you said a shorter plant about 4.5ft tall would be around perfect - But you see, with my method, most larger branches are forced to grow across and then up so they kind of curve upwards to a straight branch up top - Thats why I remove most small branch shoots around there as they simply struggle - time and time its happened, So I prepare for the small loss at the base, by trying to maximise the further 2/3rds of the plants growth.
At the moment my current girl, Lucy is over 3ft and Im flowering her tonight, She should stretch maybe 2ft thats cool, As around 5-6ft for me height - including the 25cm pot, is fine as in reality the plant is only 4-5ft anyway once you subtract the pot!!
So theres things I guess I have not told you I just assumed you may have read a few pages of one of my journals, So thats my fault - So yeah - My space is not deep at all, and when you LST the way I do, they become 4.5ft wide in 7 weeks or so, and the 2.5ft depth well thats reached early on - Ive had alot of playing around intitally to work out the closest to best simple way I can use the space. Ive done a vertical, untopped or LSt'd plant and it struggled to gain more than 8oz dry, Since LST, Ive easily doubled that weight.. I dont want to sound pompous Like IM SO GOOD - MR GANJA MASTER HERE!!! <<< lol.. I am only familiar with soil growing really and am limited to certain things I know on Hydro - But Ive learned to read my plants and such - WELL, iM still learning but I am much better. Plus having peple such as yourself who lend out good information really made my mind up as to how I am going to grow from now.
I just watched few ppls LST s and how they responded and what action was taken - THERES ALOT OF VARIANCE!! So I tried it and I got her to react everytime the same way thus far so this is my style for this space.. Later if Im lucky to get more depth , say a nice square shaped area - Id love 3 nice girls, Thats all we can grow here - So yeah, thatd be AWSUM but I am restricted for now..
Thank you for your response and comments I appreciate em buddy..
OH and also - So you think Ill be getting around 50 w pSq/ft?? Cool mate - as I said I am able to move the light and it sits around 6" from tops of plant pending on temps.. So I hoped Id have a bit more than 15 or so. Thanks again.. Take care and chat soon, Smokemupm8

 

[Smokemupm8]

Bass..
Ive recently recieved my wonderful present from Corey courtesy of GG7.. I have Seaweed extract, Vita blue, Liquid Blue and early bloomer..
I am a little confused with the ratio.. On my Vita Blue it has 2-1-4 analysis. Now over here on our boxing it has a percentage, So itll have say, 16N - 25K - 12 P, which will be 16% Nitrogen, 25% Phosphorous and 12% Potassium.
So the ratio of 2-1-4, is that the same thing, 2% N,1% P,4% K? Just would depend on the amount of water as to how much percentage I add yeah? So 2ml of 2% p/10 L is 20%, and so on.... Am i on the right track?? Cheers mate, I was feeding with VB and Seweed xtrct? But she showed these symptoms, maybe an increase in dosage?? IDK....

 

[budwiz420]

can i top dress my plant with guano 2 weeks before harvest

 

[s1ingblade]

can i top dress my plant with guano 2 weeks before harvest

I wouldn't that late in the game but I would make a tea out of it and water it in. As for me the last 7-10 days I'm flushing all that good $hit out of em and with your time frame they will be barely getting it when it would be time to flush. Then again only my $.02

I plan on getting both the Mexican and Jamaican Guano this year and start making teas with em. I know there are others and sea bird stuff but I only know those two guanos. I got lots of learning to do lol.

Hey Bass, hope alls well. was praying for ya when I read up in the toilet disaster. Hope it all turned out well. Hows the Mother?
L8TR Bro

 

[Bassman59]

Each strain is different I suppose. But off hand I wouldnt even look again for another 5 days to see how the clear ones change. Now I know you have to plan for some flushing in soil, and I don't know diddly from soil. So I ask others to chime in on that.

 

[Bassman59]

Bass..
Ive recently recieved my wonderful present from Corey courtesy of GG7.. I have Seaweed extract, Vita blue, Liquid Blue and early bloomer..
I am a little confused with the ratio.. On my Vita Blue it has 2-1-4 analysis. Now over here on our boxing it has a percentage, So itll have say, 16N - 25K - 12 P, which will be 16% Nitrogen, 25% Phosphorous and 12% Potassium.
So the ratio of 2-1-4, is that the same thing, 2% N,1% P,4% K? Just would depend on the amount of water as to how much percentage I add yeah? So 2ml of 2% p/10 L is 20%, and so on.... Am i on the right track?? Cheers mate, I was feeding with VB and Seweed xtrct? But she showed these symptoms, maybe an increase in dosage?? IDK....

you're delving into a realm I know diddly about. I use his base nutrients as well, and I use his feeding schedule. It works great for me. I really suggest you shoot him a line and ask him. I'm positive he'll be happy to guide you accordingly.

 

[s1ingblade]

oops double post

 

[Bassman59]

I wouldn't that late in the game but I would make a tea out of it and water it in. As for me the last 7-10 days I'm flushing all that good $hit out of em and with your time frame they will be barely getting it when it would be time to flush. Then again only my $.02

I plan on getting both the Mexican and Jamaican Guano this year and start making teas with em. I know there are others and sea bird stuff but I only know those two guanos. I got lots of learning to do lol.

Hey Bass, hope alls well. was praying for ya when I read up in the toilet disaster. Hope it all turned out well. Hows the Mother?
L8TR Bro

Hey sling, glad to seeya again. I've got a new journal up too.

House is dry, but I can't afford to replace the carpet yet. In all honesty I probably wont be able to until mid August.

Mom is doing better with the new bhang drink I make her from my grows. She responds really well to it. But sometimes, when she hasnt had it for a couple days she gets a bit 'out there" if ya know what I mean. So I'm working on how often to give it to her. I don't want to keep her stoned, so I need to get intervals dialed in. But man her awareness really climbs when she's been treated. It's actually rewarding to see.

Thanks for asking.

 

[benny blanco]

Quick question, I'm on day 13 of flower wasplanning on defo on day 21but I didn't defo in veg. Is it still possible? Thanks

 

[benny blanco]

Also can I still use co2?

 

[Bassman59]

Yes to both questions blanco. I'm not sure about the results of co2 with defoliation and how much is needed for your environment is obviously different from the next persons.

Preparing in veg is highly beneficial because we create so many more nodes and the bushing of the plant is huge, thus the defoliation opens up many more bud sites. Doing it only in flower will only have less results because there are fewer sites. But you should still be able to see how you're opening up more light to the lower-middle bud sites.

 

[Smokemupm8]

Well Bass and fellow members.. My Lucy is into flower
She s bin a couple days now under the MH still but will be switching to the HPS very soon, not sure if it will affect her? Its only a couple days - some people have used a MH all thru??
Anyways just thought Id let you know and Ill see if she how she produces and will update on here her progress.. Take it easy guys, Smokemup

 

[high 420kwats]

"The Church"

I have been defoling for quite awhile and it really works. The plants in the back ground just had 30 clones cut from each plant 6 days ago and I'm still taking leaves daily.

 

[Bassman59]

Looking good KW. I would now give them 7-10 days to leaf out. They'll get really bushy with new shoots.

 

[Hiker]

Hey sling, glad to seeya again. I've got a new journal up too.

House is dry, but I can't afford to replace the carpet yet. In all honesty I probably wont be able to until mid August.

Mom is doing better with the new bhang drink I make her from my grows. She responds really well to it. But sometimes, when she hasnt had it for a couple days she gets a bit 'out there" if ya know what I mean. So I'm working on how often to give it to her. I don't want to keep her stoned, so I need to get intervals dialed in. But man her awareness really climbs when she's been treated. It's actually rewarding to see.

Thanks for asking.

I keep giving you reps every time I hear about how you're helping your mom. This time is no exception.

Hearing that it's helping her makes me very happy. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because the treatment is turning out to be so effective?
Does 'modern medicine' even offer any treatment?

You're a class act Bassman, and part of why is so awesome.

 

[Stink Meaner]

Excellent thread Bass!!! I will give defoil a try tonight. Thanks

+ reps

 

[frostyMJbudEC]

i agree with everyone this thread was amazing and a huge eye opener as a newbie grower i thought the fan leaves were more important than they really are and gave no thought to the leaves that actually grew on the buds themselves, i am truly impressed by literally all the knowledge and experience that comes with the 420 community here

 

[Bassman59]

I'm thrilled you guys like this thread. It's just information passed down to me and what I've learned using it.

It takes time to get this dialed in too. God knows for me it does. Sticking to strains you already know and have dialed in will help tons in getting things dialed. Even so, there are going to be occasional oddities that come up and bork with your grow and we have to adapt. For me the latest was losing a 1000w ballast with no funds to replace it and having to use a 400w in it's place with the grow in flower. It's really screwing my grow, but at the same time I'm learning more yet again and trying to adapt. To this end, I think, and could be wrong, but I think even though with 400 watts being closer to the girls than the 1000w, the lack of intensity, slows the leaf replenishment rate. It's been 8-9 days since I did the 21 day strip and while new leaf growth is present, it's not nearly as dense as previous grows with 1000 watts. An interesting lesson indeed.

Theoretically, this too may just be more proof to the idea that light intensity is more important then "strorage facilities" when it comes to indoor growing because our plants always have constant good food. Unlike in the natural outdoors environment where cannabis grown in it's normal said environment has scarce food sourcing from the ground. As growers indoors we are feeding 24/7 (for sake of argument we'll leave out the outdoor grower that feeds 24/7) great nutrients and controlling environmental conditions. Yet those outdoors plants still grow big and strong because they have an unmatched light source, the SUN.

Indoors, we are trying to give the plants sun via our lights. But for most of us, we just cannot come close to matching the intensity of the sun from top to bottom. Think diminishing returns of light density the further away from the bulb.

If my thinking is correct, while simple, it suggests that while leaves are an important part of the overall process, beyond certain periods, they are less important than light to the flowers and food to the roots. Lets remember, in the end, we're removing fan leaves, not sugar leaves, with the sole idea of getting more light to the entire plant top to bottom. And during the vegetative state, removing fan leaves at intervals encourages more branching. More branches = more flowers.

As I get more & more dialed in on the entire process, my hope is to be able to offer my observations as to where each part of the growing process comes in to play for us indoors with a little bit more data as it applies to using this method and with the limitations of light most of us have.

Few of us have the facilities to be able to grow five 4-5' plants, using 3k watts of vertical lighting and getting 15-24 oz per plant like some I have seen pull off. Most of us are limited in space and watts to some degree. Most often, these limitations are what limits the plants themselves. Getting the most out of these limitations is my goal.

 

[KidFrankie]

Well said Bass. Almost every grower has limitations, wether it be lighting, proper air flow, or grow space. All of these innovative techniques and tricks are ways to maximize our yield and make the most out of what we have. I've just begun flower on my second grow now, but this will be my first time practicing the bending technique during the stretch. I did 2 defols during veg and it really helped her to branch out and become wider and more bushy. I'm not sure though about when and which branches I should be bending. I saw on an earlier post that you said you bend when one shoot is about 6" above the others, but since my girl is only about a foot tall so far I'm not seeing that yet. Just about all of the shoots are no more than 3" apart in height right now. Should I wait for her to stretch a little more (it's only been 2 days of 12/12) before starting bending, or would it be beneficial to go ahead and bend the tallest shoot now? By the way this is by far the most helpful and informative thread that I have come across as a new grower thus far. The information I have put in to use from here has had instant positive impacts on both of my grows. Thanks!

 

[Bassman59]

@KidFrankie, The thought process behind bending is two fold. One is to keep the entire plant shorter so there is no part of the plant not getting sufficient amounts of light. A 1k hps for example has a optimal range of roughly 36". Anything further away is not getting the best light and will be less productive. The other is to laterally open the plant so the light gets through. While the leaves have some transparency, stacked all together and add flowers & branches and your light really doesnt penetrate a lot. So we open it up. Using these thoughts as guidance should help you determine when/where to bend.