(Newbie grower here) My ph was 8+. I determined that this was causing a nute deficiency, and stunting my babies growth. I am in the process of lowering it with ph down. Got it down To about 7-7.5 in one day. I know itll be a process to keep it at a consistent 6-7. How long before does it take before the plant realizes the ph is down and can absorb the proper nutes??
My pH was 8+
- Thread starter Detoxx
- Start date
Leeroy48
Well-Known Member
Hello brother,
just give it time won’t take long.
peace and love
just give it time won’t take long.
peace and love
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Hi @Detoxx and welcome to the forum! 
First of all, tell me about this soil that you are trying to adjust. How exactly are you determining the pH? What are you doing to adjust it, with live plants in there? I am deeply worried for your grow.
First of all, tell me about this soil that you are trying to adjust. How exactly are you determining the pH? What are you doing to adjust it, with live plants in there? I am deeply worried for your grow.
Hi @Detoxx and welcome to the forum!
First of all, tell me about this soil that you are trying to adjust. How exactly are you determining the pH? What are you doing to adjust it, with live plants in there? I am deeply worried for your grow.
Best option to lower pH level?
My Ph level on one of my plants is reading 7.5. And this plant has the yelloish curling leaves and in my research this is due to the High ph, and the plant not being able to take in calcium and magnesium. What would be my best Ph lowering option??
www.420magazine.com
one of them probe things
- Thread starter
- #5
I have a ph soil meter. I am using FFOF. I bought ph down kit. And i fed them yesterday with water at 6.5 phHi @Detoxx and welcome to the forum!
First of all, tell me about this soil that you are trying to adjust. How exactly are you determining the pH? What are you doing to adjust it, with live plants in there? I am deeply worried for your grow.
My tap water is almost 8, and my outside plants veg fine with it. I wouldn’t mess with your soil pH, but bringing that water down slowly is probably a good idea. I use citric acid for my pH down, but there are many methods. If anything it looks to me like a bit of nute burn? If they’ve made it that far on that water, it’s likely not as bad as you think- yet. Once you’re into flowering you’ll need that pH to be down near 6 but for now I’d just give it some time and some fresh pH’d water.
- Thread starter
- #7
I rarely feed nutes. And when i did they were at a quarter strength than recommended on the bottle (fox farm trio) it looks more like a deficiency due to the ph being too high, and the roots unable to absorb certain nutes. Thats what i am getting out of this. But i am just going to have to wait. The growth has been stunted tremendously
the water i have now i phd down to 6.5. My water is 8. So i was able to bring it down with the ph down kit
the water i have now i phd down to 6.5. My water is 8. So i was able to bring it down with the ph down kit
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
ok... first of, Fox Farm Ocean Forest is a great soil and DOES NOT NEED ANY ADJUSTING. Its base pH is set to 6.8, right where it needs to be. Your probe is not the proper tool to measure soil pH. Soil pH is measured in a vacuum with a slurry test. The numbers you are getting from that cheap meter are worthless.
Next, the futility of what you are trying to do. Your soil pH is not the problem, it is doing exactly what it is designed to do. The problem is that you are not adjusting every fluid to hit your soil, to 6.3pH. No less, no more... 6.3 pH is where you need to water at, whether it is plain water or water with nutes. When you water at 6.3, the entire container of saturated soil also assumes the pH of 6.3, because the massive amount of water overrides everything else. As the soil dries out as the plant uses the water, that dryer portion of soil begins to drift up toward the base pH of 6.8 as it loses the influence of the pH adjusted fluids.
Next, your belief that you do not need to feed nutes and when you do they are at quarter strength. Who is advising you to do this nonsense?? It is not the folks who designed your nutes or your soil. You should really try following the FF feeding recommendations
Your plants are being damaged because of your assumptions and what you are doing here trying to adjust things on the fly. Please check your assumptions... at least one of them is wrong.
Next, the futility of what you are trying to do. Your soil pH is not the problem, it is doing exactly what it is designed to do. The problem is that you are not adjusting every fluid to hit your soil, to 6.3pH. No less, no more... 6.3 pH is where you need to water at, whether it is plain water or water with nutes. When you water at 6.3, the entire container of saturated soil also assumes the pH of 6.3, because the massive amount of water overrides everything else. As the soil dries out as the plant uses the water, that dryer portion of soil begins to drift up toward the base pH of 6.8 as it loses the influence of the pH adjusted fluids.
Next, your belief that you do not need to feed nutes and when you do they are at quarter strength. Who is advising you to do this nonsense?? It is not the folks who designed your nutes or your soil. You should really try following the FF feeding recommendations
Your plants are being damaged because of your assumptions and what you are doing here trying to adjust things on the fly. Please check your assumptions... at least one of them is wrong.
- Thread starter
- #9
Thanks for the insight! I have always been told to start the ff trio at quarter to half strength to not over due do it. I will start full strength. Also my water reads at 8. I am using ph strips. Going forward i will put all my waterings and feedings to 6.3. In hopes this is going to resolve my issue. My other plant is absolutely flourishing, but this one is struggling. Same soil. Same watering schedule. Same everything. Maybe too much TLC for my first grow? I dont know. Thanks for the insight
BigDannel
Well-Known Member
Years ago I made similar mistakes, it truly is amazing the amount of bad information out there. I wasn't watering properly and even worse, I wasn't following the nutrient guide from the company that had designed them. So many places online say that Fox Farm nutrients are super-hot, only use 1/4, etc.... this is simply not true. I have been following their schedule and dosage exactly and have had much more success. I don't want to jinx it but I have not had the issues that I've had in the past using the exact same soil and nutrients since following their dosages. I do not start to use the nutrients until a few weeks after seedling stage but other than that, I follow it exactly as-is. They know what they're doing, especially if you're using their soil with it.
My tapwater's pH drops quite a bit once I add the nutrients, don't assume that high pH out of the tap is awful unless you are only giving it plain water. Be sure to test after mixing nutes as well.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
If you have always been told this, you have always been misinformed by whomever is telling you such things. Be wary of who you trust on the internet, and if they advise you to do something contrary to what a manufacturer says, be doubly cautious. Lose the test strips... that is for raising fish, not growing medicine. Invest in a digital pH meter and add some accuracy to what you are trying to do.
yes, definitely too much tlc and overthinking... it is common... we have all been there.
- Thread starter
- #12
So ultimately feed as bottles say, make sure the PH is at 6-6.8 sweet spot, and play the waiting to game and watch the babies do better than ever lol? I have a plant that is 2 weeks younger than my first, and is already bigger than the other, bevause the growth has been stunted to badly. But hopefully it makes a full recovery and bounce back
BigDannel
Well-Known Member
Another suggestion that has drastically improved things for me - treat each plant individually. Don't assume that because one plant is doing well with a certain watering/feeding schedule that all of them will, even if they are the exact same strain. Listen to the plants and act accordingly, it does mean a bit more work on your end because you may end up with plants on different schedules but that's ok. I would use a calendar or day-planner to keep track of when you do what to each plant.
- Thread starter
- #14
Could the high ph lead to a cal mag deficiency?
BigDannel
Well-Known Member
It could, if pH is too high or too low it can prevent the plant from getting the nutrients it needs. There is a great post all about problems with plants and how pH comes into play, I definitely suggest reading through it and keeping it saved.
Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver: Pictorial
Here is a ready reckoner for Cannabis plant and pest problems. It has been put together by a master grower. I have edited for content and added to as needed. I hope you learn from this treatise. I have been doing a lot of research on sick plants and also helping out others a lot on sick...
www.420magazine.com
Calcium and magnesium are two different elements. The info below is from the thread I linked above, there are pics in the thread so check it out.
Magnesium (Mg) - Micronutrient and Mobile Element
Magnesium helps supports healthy veins while keeping a healthy leaf production and its structure. Magnesium is significant for chlorophyll-production and enzyme break downs. Magnesium which must be present in relatively large quantities for the plant to survive, but yet not to much to where it will cause the plant to show a toxicity.
Magnesium is one of the easiest deficiencies to tell... the green veins along with the yellowness of the entire surrounding leave is a dead giveaway, but sometimes that's not always the case here. In case you have one of those where it doesn't show the green veins, sometimes leaf tips and edges may discolour and curl upward. The growing tips can turn lime green when the deficiency progresses to the top of the plant. The edges will feel like dry and crispy and usually affects the lower leaves in younger plants, then will affect the middle to upper half when it gets older, but It can also happen on older leaves as well. The deficiency will start at the tip then will take over the entire outer left and right sides of the leaves. The inner part will be yellow and or brownish in colour, followed by leaves falling without withering. The tips can also twist and turn as well as curving upwards as if you curl your tongues.
Excessive levels of magnesium in your plants will exhibit a buildup of toxic salts that will kill the leaves and lock out other nutrients like Calcium (Ca). Mg can get locked out by having too much Calcium, Chlorine or ammonium in your soil/water.
One of the worst problems a person can have is a magnesium def caused by a ph lockout. By giving it more magnesium to cure the problem when you are thinking you are doing good, but actually you are doing more harm then good. When the plants can't take in a nutrient because of the ph being off for that element, the plant will not absorb it but it will be in the soil... therefore causing a buildup. A buildup will be noticed by the outer parts of the plant becoming whitish and or a yellowish color. The tips and part way in on the inner leaves will die and feel like glass. Parts affected by Magnesium deficiency are: space between the veins (Interveinal) of older leaves; may begin around interior perimeter of leaf.
Problems with Magnesium being locked out by PH troubles
Light Acid Soils, soils with excessive potassium, calcium and or phosphorus
Soil
Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn't recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.
Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Magnesium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-5.7
Magnesium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.8-9.1
(Wouldn't recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.
Solution to fixing a Magnesium deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Magnesium in them will fix a Magnesium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have magnesium in them are: Epsom salts, which is fast absorption. Dolomite lime and or garden lime (same thing just called different) which is slow absorption. Sulfate of Potash, Magnesia which is medium absorption. Worm Castings, which is slow absorption. Crabshell which is slow absorption. Earth Juice Mircoblast, which is fast acting. (a must buy!! Has lots of 2ndary nutrients).
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.
Calcium (Ca) -Macro Nutrient and an Immobile element.
Calcium is another important element that helps the plants cell walls, cell division in making the plants stems, stalks, branches stronger, as well as contributing to root growth, mostly the newer root hairs, Calcium also helps enhancing the uptake of K in the the plants roots. Calcium moves really slow within the plant and tends to concentrate in roots and older growth.
When plants exhibit a Calcium deficiency the younger leaves are the first to show it as well as older leaves. The Leaf tips will die back, the tips may curl, and growth of the plant is stunted. The plant can show a weakness in the stems and branches, as well as a under developed root system that can lead to bacteria problems with roots dieing off. Having slow plant transpiration rates can aggravate the uptake of calcium. Make sure your soil isn't very acidic, for calcium gets harder to be absorbed through acidic soils, Which leads to having a plant that is deficient in Calcium. The leaf tips, edges and new growth will or may turn a yellow/brown colour that happen in spots and often surrounded by a sharp brown outlined edge and then the leaf tips die back. If too much calcium is given at an early stage of growth it can stunt the growth of your plants. Having to much of calcium will also flocculate when a concentrated form is combined with potassium. The parts affected by a calcium deficiency are the roots. Stem or petiole, young or old leaves.
Too much Calcium will lead to other micronutrient deficiencies. Calcium fixation is caused by many types of mediums such as: clay soils, unbuffered coco and humus. The lime tends to bond to these soils very easily. The stems of the plant will not be able to hold the plant up and will exhibit a white brown in between the veins of the leaves when having too much calcium. Also having to much potassium and or nitrogen will cause a calcium lockout.
Problems with Calcium being locked out by PH troubles
Very acidic soils with excessive potassium, dry and or wet soil. Lack of calcium in the soil may cause too acidic soil. This may cause to Mg or Iron deficiency or very slow stunted growth
Soil
Calcium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0- 6.4
Calcium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 (Wouldn't recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a
Calcium Deficiency.
Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Calcium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0- 5.3
Calcium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.4-5.8 (Wouldn't recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Calcium Deficiency.
Solution to fixing a Calcium deficiency
To fix a calcium deficiency you can treat by foliar feeding with one teaspoon of dolomite lime or Garden lime per quart of water, Or Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Calcium in them will fix a Calcium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Or you can take crushed up dolomite lime or garden lime in a gallon of water and water it in the soil. 1 to 2 teaspoons per gallon of water, which will be slow acting. Garden Gypsum, which is medium absorption. Limestone, which is medium absorption, Rock Phosphate and Animal wastes which are both medium/slow absorption. Note: Caution when using gypsum to an already acid soil (pH that is less than 5.5) can have a very bad effect on different types of plants by effecting the absorption of soil aluminum, which is poison to plant roots.
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics, (which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) you need to flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
When the growing tips of shoots go like that it would indicate a PH problem... screwing around with sizzle ya don't understand is dangerous.
Personally i've grown in soil compost blend PH at 6.8 i've used organic & synthetic nutrients to which i never PH corrected i do just fine.
Even tho, in some early days i did have cheap nasty PH soil probe... the PH doe's change after feeding, 12 hr, 24 hr later it is like a buffering effect with the plants in the short term do just fine.
I mean really do you adjust PH of nutrient solution for your tomato plant or any garden plant when feeding in soil... just stupid.
Personally i've grown in soil compost blend PH at 6.8 i've used organic & synthetic nutrients to which i never PH corrected i do just fine.
Even tho, in some early days i did have cheap nasty PH soil probe... the PH doe's change after feeding, 12 hr, 24 hr later it is like a buffering effect with the plants in the short term do just fine.
I mean really do you adjust PH of nutrient solution for your tomato plant or any garden plant when feeding in soil... just stupid.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I have a lot ... let me say that again... a LOT of experience in Fox Farm soils and in using their entire nutrient line. First of all, don't go by what is said on the bottles... actually do some research and find the easy to download feeding chart that explains exactly how to use the trio for each week of the grow.
Up your game... being satisfied with being in the usable range of soil pH, between 6.3-6.8 is not good enough. Get some accuracy... 6.3 is the sweet spot, and even a bit lower in FFOF. At least a few times during your grow you will want to dip down to 6.2 pH and let the system rise through the range from there, because without at least occasionally hitting the very bottom of the scale, invariably FFOF and FF nutrient grows will have a late season molybdenum deficiency that is very confusing and hard to diagnose. Come in low a few times so that these heavy metals can be picked up at the lower end of the range, and this deficiency never occurs.
I want to stress how much your inaccuracy is hurting you in this very scientific system. The difference between 6.3 and 6.4 pH is actually quite large on the chemical scale, and not knowing if you are closer to 6.3 or 6.8 is way beyond tolerable. You either want to take advantage of your expensive nutes, or not. Accurate pH adjustments are as much a part of it as regular 3x flushes are, in a Fox Farms grow. To directly answer your question, yes, wild inaccuracy in pH adjustment can easily cause lockouts of all kinds, including calcium and magnesium. The problem here is you, not your soil or your nutes... sorry to be so blunt, but you had to hear it.
Up your game... being satisfied with being in the usable range of soil pH, between 6.3-6.8 is not good enough. Get some accuracy... 6.3 is the sweet spot, and even a bit lower in FFOF. At least a few times during your grow you will want to dip down to 6.2 pH and let the system rise through the range from there, because without at least occasionally hitting the very bottom of the scale, invariably FFOF and FF nutrient grows will have a late season molybdenum deficiency that is very confusing and hard to diagnose. Come in low a few times so that these heavy metals can be picked up at the lower end of the range, and this deficiency never occurs.
I want to stress how much your inaccuracy is hurting you in this very scientific system. The difference between 6.3 and 6.4 pH is actually quite large on the chemical scale, and not knowing if you are closer to 6.3 or 6.8 is way beyond tolerable. You either want to take advantage of your expensive nutes, or not. Accurate pH adjustments are as much a part of it as regular 3x flushes are, in a Fox Farms grow. To directly answer your question, yes, wild inaccuracy in pH adjustment can easily cause lockouts of all kinds, including calcium and magnesium. The problem here is you, not your soil or your nutes... sorry to be so blunt, but you had to hear it.
BigDannel
Well-Known Member
We all need to hear it like it is, that's how we get better! In my short time here I have learned more from you than I have wasting years on other forums and websites. Which pH pen do you use? Seems like most of the $20-$30 ones are horrible, I had one that would read all over the place so need another. I don't mind spending a little bit more but if there's a solid tester out there I'd love to hear people's suggestions.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Milwaukee Instruments MW101 Standard Portable pH Meter, 0 DegreeC to 50 Degree C Temperature Range, 0.01 pH Resolution, $88
Spend a little more for even more quality with BlueLab.
BigDannel
Well-Known Member
Thank you, I think I will wait until next paycheck and get the BlueLab... I'd rather not have to buy another one again lol. I grow in soil, is the pen adequate for my needs or would I be better off with one of the more expensive meters?
